Rowand44 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:22 PM) Rivers is a first class prick. I've never seen him called a class guy before. That's the first time I've ever heard Rivers or Cutler called classy before. They're both known to be complete assholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (Controlled Chaos @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 07:17 PM) Wow, it's like you enjoy being wrong about the Bears today. Then make an argument to the contrary. Look at any game Briggs was out and our defense failed to stop the run. He's absolutely instrumental in our run defense. When he's not out there, Urlacher is running around getting beat all over the field. I concede that maybe they are both equally important, but considering the press Urlacher gets, it's my opinion that he is overrated. He was even voted as most as one of the most overrated players in the league, by the players, several years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 07:17 PM) The injury he sustained was also a bit different. Again, Rivers is a class guy. He's not going to call Jay names or say what Jay should have done. What he did say, was that he would have been out there playing if he could walk. He basically says he would have done things entirely different but felt bad for Jay because he wasn't at 100%. Doesn't really side with him at all. But he says and what Phillip Rivers actually did in a similar situation are two different things. What more do you want? We have an injury report telling you exactly what was wrong with his knee. We know it effects lateral stability, and that's something a mobile QB playing behind that Bears O-line is going to need. Everything we've heard is that the medical staff didn't even want him playing in the 2nd half, but Cutler insisted on giving it a shot. It didn't work. Granted, that's coming from the Bears, but what else do we have to go on here? What are you basing your doubts on? It's not what anyone remotely close to the situation has said. It's not the actual injury. It's not Jay's history, because he's always been one to play through stuff in the past. Jay Cutler the person seems like a douche. Jay Cutler the player has been somewhat of a disappointment here in Chicago. He can get rattled after taking hits and try to force things. But one thing he's never done is quit or play soft. I just don't understand where this is coming from at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 07:22 PM) Rivers is a first class prick. I've never seen him called a class guy before. That's simply not true. He is competitive as anyone on the field, and likes to talk trash, but of the two, he is miiiiilllllleeessss ahead of Cutler in terms of respect by his peers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 07:13 PM) He said a few different things. He also said "I have empathy for him." I don't know how else you'd characterize that. Having empathy for someone doesnt negate saying that the only way that you wouldnt play is if you were carted off the field. He absolutely didnt side with Cutler. It honestly almost looked like he was taking a few shots at his old rival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 07:27 PM) But he says and what Phillip Rivers actually did in a similar situation are two different things. What more do you want? We have an injury report telling you exactly what was wrong with his knee. We know it effects lateral stability, and that's something a mobile QB playing behind that Bears O-line is going to need. Everything we've heard is that the medical staff didn't even want him playing in the 2nd half, but Cutler insisted on giving it a shot. It didn't work. Granted, that's coming from the Bears, but what else do we have to go on here? What are you basing your doubts on? It's not what anyone remotely close to the situation has said. It's not the actual injury. It's not Jay's history, because he's always been one to play through stuff in the past. Jay Cutler the person seems like a douche. Jay Cutler the player has been somewhat of a disappointment here in Chicago. He can get rattled after taking hits and try to force things. But one thing he's never done is quit or play soft. I just don't understand where this is coming from at all. I told you exactly what I wanted. Why is it so important to you that you change my mind on this? I am doubtful that the injury is such that, had things been going a little differently, he would have been sitting out the second half. I have explained my reasoning for this in every possible manner I can think of. What more do you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 07:27 PM) Then make an argument to the contrary. Look at any game Briggs was out and our defense failed to stop the run. He's absolutely instrumental in our run defense. When he's not out there, Urlacher is running around getting beat all over the field. I concede that maybe they are both equally important, but considering the press Urlacher gets, it's my opinion that he is overrated. He was even voted as most as one of the most overrated players in the league, by the players, several years ago. Time to retire from the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:31 PM) I told you exactly what I wanted. Why is it so important to you that you change my mind on this? I am doubtful that the injury is such that, had things been going a little differently, he would have been sitting out the second half. I have explained my reasoning for this in every possible manner I can think of. What more do you want? Not to sound like a dick, but really it's because you keep posting and people are going to reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:31 PM) Time to retire from the thread. Another great rebuttal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 07:31 PM) I told you exactly what I wanted. Why is it so important to you that you change my mind on this? I am doubtful that the injury is such that, had things been going a little differently, he would have been sitting out the second half. I have explained my reasoning for this in every possible manner I can think of. What more do you want? I guess I'm looking to see if there's anything ever that would change your mind on this. Sworn affidavits from the AT's saying they didn't want him to play? Statements from doctors saying "yeah, probably not going to be a good QB with a Grade II MCL Sprain"? It seems like you've entrenched yourself in this position that there's nothing that can ever change your mind that Cutler pussed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:32 PM) Not to sound like a dick, but really it's because you keep posting and people are going to reply. Hah. I'm not asking anyone to side with me here. And it's certainly not just me that has this opinion. It's Fathom, it's Sqwert, it DA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 07:34 PM) Another great rebuttal. How'd the D look in 2009? Seriously, man, what's the f***ing point? Arguing with you is like arguing with a brick wall. If you think Lance Briggs is the key to our defense, over the much more important Brian Urlacher and Julius Peppers, then arguing with you is moot. Hell, you still think Cutler should have played, when 95% of the rest of the world has come around and realized they were fools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 07:31 PM) I told you exactly what I wanted. Why is it so important to you that you change my mind on this? I am doubtful that the injury is such that, had things been going a little differently, he would have been sitting out the second half. I have explained my reasoning for this in every possible manner I can think of. What more do you want? To burn your Cutler jersey, because that's about where you're at now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 07:36 PM) How'd the D look in 2009? Seriously, man, what's the f***ing point? Arguing with you is like arguing with a brick wall. If you think Lance Briggs is the key to our defense, over the much more important Brian Urlacher and Julius Peppers, then arguing with you is moot. Hell, you still think Cutler should have played, when 95% of the rest of the world has come around and realized they were fools. Urlacher might be the best tampa 2 mlb of all time. This defense goes as far as he takes it. Briggs is a great player. But even Peppers was MUCH more important to this defense. Hopefully they can get a top tier safety this off season, which is also very important for this defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 07:40 PM) Urlacher might be the best tampa 2 mlb of all time. This defense goes as far as he takes it. Briggs is a great player. But even Peppers was MUCH more important to this defense. Hopefully they can get a top tier safety this off season, which is also very important for this defense. Even a casual Bears fan should know that. That's why I'm done arguing with Shack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:34 PM) I guess I'm looking to see if there's anything ever that would change your mind on this. Sworn affidavits from the AT's saying they didn't want him to play? Statements from doctors saying "yeah, probably not going to be a good QB with a Grade II MCL Sprain"? It seems like you've entrenched yourself in this position that there's nothing that can ever change your mind that Cutler pussed out. Well unfortunately my opinion on what actually happened will never be substantiated because Cutler or the Bears will never admit that the guy quit, because it would ruin his career here in Chicago, and damage his reputation more throughout the league. You and others are acting as though there is some mountain of evidence on your side. But there simply is not. You've got an injury report that says he has an MCL tear and a history of getting up and playing after taking a pounding. I've got evidence of players in his same position playing several games with the same injury. I've got several of his peers questioning him. I've got a training staff that was sooo incredibly concerned about his injury, yet they would allow him to walk around with his incredibly damaged knee merely for the sake of making the Packers believe he could possibly return? I've got a guy who has a history of failure in the face of adversity. I've got a guy who mopes and sulks and then ultimately seems to underperform when the pressure gets dialed up. I mean maybe he cracked...I don't know. Either way, it's what I took away from things, and I am by no means some Cutler hater or someone who was "predisposed" to dislike Cutler. It's my interpretation of things. I stand by that. You've shown me nothing other than some MRI which shows there was an injury, which was stipulated to in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 06:55 PM) That's what would have bothered me most if I were a Bears fan. The guy was walking around with no discernible limp and didn't look like he was in any pain. If he was told that they were going with the backup I would have wanted to see him go nuts on the sideline telling Lovie that there's no way he's sitting this one out. I'd like someone to correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure the MCL and ACL both stabilize the knees on sideways movements. Walking straight forward and standing aren't bothered like sideways movements are. I know we had a guy in our softball league tear his ACL and MCL in a game who tried to keep playing. He could stand without pain, and walk without pain, but he went sideways at all, his knee literally collapsed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 The Sam linebacker just isn't nearly as critical as the Mike in this scheme. Briggs is a fantastic player and him being out hurts the defense for sure, but just by nature of his position he isn't as important as Urlacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:46 PM) The Sam linebacker just isn't nearly as critical as the Mike in this scheme. Briggs is a fantastic player and him being out hurts the defense for sure, but just by nature of his position he isn't as important as Urlacher. He's a WILL... actually... but yeah, not that it's not an important position, but it's still the Robin to the Mike's Batman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 07:46 PM) I'd like someone to correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure the MCL and ACL both stabilize the knees on sideways movements. Walking straight forward and standing aren't bothered like sideways movements are. I know we had a guy in our softball league tear his ACL and MCL in a game who tried to keep playing. He could stand without pain, and walk without pain, but he went sideways at all, his knee literally collapsed. Yep. There was just a doc on Holmes show (one of the Bulls/Sox docs, I think). It's lateral movements that the MCL stabilizes. So big linemen can have their knees heavily braced and play with a bad MCL, but QB's and RB's are going to be a lot worse off. Since it wasn't a complete tear, his knee wasn't going to just slide apart, but he likely couldn't put lateral pressure on it without serious pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:36 PM) How'd the D look in 2009? Seriously, man, what's the f***ing point? Arguing with you is like arguing with a brick wall. If you think Lance Briggs is the key to our defense, over the much more important Brian Urlacher and Julius Peppers, then arguing with you is moot. Hell, you still think Cutler should have played, when 95% of the rest of the world has come around and realized they were fools. How'd the defense look when Briggs doesn't play? Again, simply because Urlacher has a large role in the scheme does not make him impossible to overrate. The fact that he was replaced by Hunter Hillenmeyer and Nick Roach is not proof that Urlacher is brilliant. It just means the dropoff from Urlacher to them was huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:50 PM) How'd the defense look when Briggs doesn't play? Again, simply because Urlacher has a large role in the scheme does not make him impossible to overrate. The fact that he was replaced by Hunter Hillenmeyer and Nick Roach is not proof that Urlacher is brilliant. It just means the dropoff from Urlacher to them was huge. Why does this apply to Urlacher but not Briggs? When Briggs goes out he has the same rotation replacing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I dunno. I guess it's a coincidence we lost to Seattle and Washington when Briggs was out with his injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 07:56 PM) I dunno. I guess it's a coincidence we lost to Seattle and Washington when Briggs was out with his injury. Dont get me wrong, Im sure that was part of it. But I also think thats when our o line was still a disaster and there were other factors. When Urlacher was out our defense was basically a joke though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 It wasn't a coincidence. Both of them matter. Urlacher, probably moreso though. When he is not in the whole thing totally falls apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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