Bears versus Packers game thread

[iamshack]

To burn your Cutler jersey, because that's about where you're at now

So now questioning the guy is equating to burning his jersey.

 

Jeesh.

[iamshack]

It wasn't a coincidence. Both of them matter. Urlacher, probably moreso though. When he is not in the whole thing totally falls apart.

Well, perhaps I am wrong about Briggs being the "heart of the defense" then.

 

I still think Urlacher is overrated.

 

And part of that is because of who the media wants him to be.

[SoxFan1]

Just read the last 30 pages. I will now go thrust my head viciously into a brick wall.

[iamshack]

Just read the last 30 pages. I will now go thrust my head viciously into a brick wall.

That is not an injury I would expect you to return to the game from.

[Steve9347]

I dunno. I guess it's a coincidence we lost to Seattle and Washington when Briggs was out with his injury.

Good call, because giving up 21 points and 10 points screams "defense's fault". Jesus, in the game against Washington Cutler had 4 picks including a pick 6.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

in 5 career games against the packers (including the playoffs), cutler has a QB rating of just under 55 and a record of 1-4. sprained MCL or not, it seems that hanie gave the bears the better chance to win yesterday based on cutler's lack of success against Dom Caper's 3-4 DEF. that's a scary thought when your 3rd string QB (well really 2nd string QB) is even in the same conversation as the team's "franchise" QB. at this point, i really think the packers have gotten into his head. whether that had a factor in the way things played out yesterday afternoon, only Jay and maybe the Bears coaching staff will ever know...

[StrangeSox]

I dunno. I guess it's a coincidence we lost to Seattle and Washington when Briggs was out with his injury.

 

The defense has been bad for years whenever Urlacher is out. Last year wasn't very good all year, same in previous years where Urlacher's missed chunks of games (2005 maybe?)

[Controlled Chaos]

Then make an argument to the contrary.

 

Look at any game Briggs was out and our defense failed to stop the run. He's absolutely instrumental in our run defense. When he's not out there, Urlacher is running around getting beat all over the field.

 

I concede that maybe they are both equally important, but considering the press Urlacher gets, it's my opinion that he is overrated. He was even voted as most as one of the most overrated players in the league, by the players, several years ago.

This defense is geared towards Briggs making the tackle. You remember Tampa with this defense?? Briggs plays Brooks' spot....the WILL. He should be leading this team in tackles every year. Any idea off the top of your head who the MIKE was in Tampa?? Doubtful, because the MIKE is not the star in this scheme. Yet Urlacher who has to drop back in coverage and run all over the field still leads the team in tackles. The Defense is garbage when he isn't there. The only time he hasn't played at a probowl level was when he was playing hurt. I like Briggs...he's a solid player, but Urlacher is the MVP of this defense and easily one of the greatest LB's to ever play the game.

 

That stupid f***in poll. Other players who were labeled as overrated in the poll included Peyton Manning, Michael Vick, Eli Manning, Terrell Owens and Ray Lewis.

[SoxFan1]

in 5 career games against the packers (including the playoffs), cutler has a QB rating of just under 55 and a record of 1-4. sprained MCL or not, it seems that hanie gave the bears the better chance to win yesterday based on cutler's lack of success against Dom Caper's 3-4 DEF. that's a scary thought when your 3rd string QB (well really 2nd string QB) is even in the same conversation as the team's "franchise" QB. at this point, i really think the packers have gotten into his head. whether that had a factor in the way things played out yesterday afternoon, only Jay and maybe the Bears coaching staff will ever know...

Not a chance. His week 17 struggles had a lot more to do with Martz' stupid play calling. And his Bears debut/debacle 4-int game skews those numbers a lot.

[lostfan]

This defense is geared towards Briggs making the tackle. You remember Tampa with this defense?? Briggs plays Brooks' spot....the WILL. He should be leading this team in tackles every year. Any idea off the top of your head who the MIKE was in Tampa?? Doubtful, because the MIKE is not the star in this scheme. Yet Urlacher who has to drop back in coverage and run all over the field still leads the team in tackles. The Defense is garbage when he isn't there. The only time he hasn't played at a probowl level was when he was playing hurt. I like Briggs...he's a solid player, but Urlacher is the MVP of this defense and easily one of the greatest LB's to ever play the game.

 

That stupid f***in poll. Other players who were labeled as overrated in the poll included Peyton Manning, Michael Vick, Eli Manning, Terrell Owens and Ray Lewis.

Hardy Nickerson FWIW. He wasn't really chopped liver. I think Quarles succeeded him.

Edited January 25, 2011 by lostfan

[iamshack]

Good call, because giving up 21 points and 10 points screams "defense's fault". Jesus, in the game against Washington Cutler had 4 picks including a pick 6.

And here I thought you were done arguing with me.

 

The Seattle game the Seahawks won for the first time on the road in like 2 years. It was the first time in forever they had to travel east and play in the early time slot and actually won. They rushed for 111 yards against us, and they pretty much have no running game whatsoever. No way that should have happened.

 

In Week 7 against Washington, the Redskins rushed for 125 yards on us without Briggs.

 

Those were two teams we would have dominated with him on the field.

[iamshack]

This defense is geared towards Briggs making the tackle. You remember Tampa with this defense?? Briggs plays Brooks' spot....the WILL. He should be leading this team in tackles every year. Any idea off the top of your head who the MIKE was in Tampa?? Doubtful, because the MIKE is not the star in this scheme. Yet Urlacher who has to drop back in coverage and run all over the field still leads the team in tackles. The Defense is garbage when he isn't there. The only time he hasn't played at a probowl level was when he was playing hurt. I like Briggs...he's a solid player, but Urlacher is the MVP of this defense and easily one of the greatest LB's to ever play the game.

 

That stupid f***in poll. Other players who were labeled as overrated in the poll included Peyton Manning, Michael Vick, Eli Manning, Terrell Owens and Ray Lewis.

Point conceded.

[Steve9347]

In Week 7 against Washington, the Redskins rushed for 125 yards on us without Briggs.

 

Those were two teams we would have dominated with him on the field.

The Bears gave up 10 points. TEN POINTS on defense. You make zero sense.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Not a chance. His week 17 struggles had a lot more to do with Martz' stupid play calling. And his Bears debut/debacle 4-int game skews those numbers a lot.

 

well...game log...

2009 - 43.2 and 74.9

2010 - 82.5, 43.5, and 31.8

seems consistently below average to me. he threw 1 TD and 1 INT in his highest rated game (82.5) in this year's first meeting. in today's nfl, i would consider an 82.5 rating average at best

[iamshack]

The Bears gave up 10 points. TEN POINTS on defense. You make zero sense.

What on earth have I done to you to make you so angry? I fought and complained to have this thread re-opened, so please try and stay civil in your argument, would you?

 

I admitted my argument was overstated. Can you calm down now?

 

 

 

 

[lostfan]

well...game log...

2009 - 43.2 and 74.9

2010 - 82.5, 43.5, and 31.8

seems consistently below average to me. he threw 1 TD and 1 INT in his highest rated game (82.5) in this year's first meeting. in today's nfl, i would consider an 82.5 rating average at best

Green Bay's defense is a top 3 unit and the mediocre Bears receivers are overmatched by Green Bay's corners (not even getting into the pass protection issues yet). Rodgers's QB ratings are also lower vs. the Bears than his normal QB ratings.

[Steve9347]

What on earth have I done to you to make you so angry? I fought and complained to have this thread re-opened, so please try and stay civil in your argument, would you?

 

I admitted my argument was overstated. Can you calm down now?

Explain how my argument was not civilized? You say the Bears defense without Briggs cost them to lose to the Redskins. I say the Bears defense only gave up 10 points in that game and your argument is not valid. The reason your argument is invalid is blaming the defense for giving up 10 points in a game the Bears offense gave up 6 turnovers is utterly insane. The defense tried it's best and kept us in that one, generating 3 turnovers of it's own and scoring a touchdown as well. We didn't lose that game because Briggs didn't play... not even close. The defense dominated.

 

Stop trying to play the victim. When you make outrageously incorrect points while shooting from the hip, they will be replied to in kind. There's no way you could have watched that Bears/Redskins game, because if you did you wouldn't be making such ridiculous comments.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

well...game log...

2009 - 43.2 and 74.9

2010 - 82.5, 43.5, and 31.8

seems consistently below average to me. he threw 1 TD and 1 INT in his highest rated game (82.5) in this year's first meeting. in today's nfl, i would consider an 82.5 rating average at best

just did a quick lookup and median qb rating for nfl starters this year...Orton: 87.5 (#15) and Cutler: 86.3 (#16). so I would say an 85ish qb rating is average by today's standards. by those standards, all 5 of his games were below average with one game borderline average at 82.5

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Green Bay's defense is a top 3 unit and the mediocre Bears receivers are overmatched by Green Bay's corners (not even getting into the pass protection issues yet). Rodgers's QB ratings are also lower vs. the Bears than his normal QB ratings.

by his standards yes, but wow that's an unbelievably tough standard...game log...

2008 - 105.8 and 87.6

2009 - 92.0 and 88.9

2010 - 92.5, 89.7, and 55.4

 

not too shabby, yesterday was really his only dud in 7 games

[iamshack]

Explain how my argument was not civilized? You say the Bears defense without Briggs cost them to lose to the Redskins. I say the Bears defense only gave up 10 points in that game and your argument is not valid. The reason your argument is invalid is blaming the defense for giving up 10 points in a game the Bears offense gave up 6 turnovers is utterly insane. The defense tried it's best and kept us in that one, generating 3 turnovers of it's own and scoring a touchdown as well. We didn't lose that game because Briggs didn't play... not even close. The defense dominated.

 

Stop trying to play the victim. When you make outrageously incorrect points while shooting from the hip, they will be replied to in kind. There's no way you could have watched that Bears/Redskins game, because if you did you wouldn't be making such ridiculous comments.

Honestly, I never stated most of the things you are claiming I did.

 

I pointed out the fact that we happened to lose two games, at home, to two inferior teams, when Briggs was not playing. Every defense in the NFL is predicated on stopping the opponents' running game first, and stopping the passing game second. When Briggs does not play, we have a much more difficult time stopping the opponents' running game. This makes it more difficult to win the game.

 

It is my opinion that Briggs is every bit as important to our success as Urlacher is. Apparently most people disagree with me. I admitted my argument was overstated. I am not offended that people choose to disagree with me. So disagree with me, fine. You just seem very angry about it, that's all.

[IlliniKrush]

Well unfortunately my opinion on what actually happened will never be substantiated because Cutler or the Bears will never admit that the guy quit, because it would ruin his career here in Chicago, and damage his reputation more throughout the league.

 

You and others are acting as though there is some mountain of evidence on your side. But there simply is not. You've got an injury report that says he has an MCL tear and a history of getting up and playing after taking a pounding.

 

I've got evidence of players in his same position playing several games with the same injury. I've got several of his peers questioning him. I've got a training staff that was sooo incredibly concerned about his injury, yet they would allow him to walk around with his incredibly damaged knee merely for the sake of making the Packers believe he could possibly return? I've got a guy who has a history of failure in the face of adversity. I've got a guy who mopes and sulks and then ultimately seems to underperform when the pressure gets dialed up. I mean maybe he cracked...I don't know.

 

Either way, it's what I took away from things, and I am by no means some Cutler hater or someone who was "predisposed" to dislike Cutler. It's my interpretation of things. I stand by that. You've shown me nothing other than some MRI which shows there was an injury, which was stipulated to in the first place.

They are supposed to admit something that didn't happen?

 

There are also several players not playing with the same injury (anyone remember Jim McMahon's injury? Oops.). Peers questioning him? Not his team, who know the situation. Any jackass with a twitter account can post a "CUTLER'S A p**** GET BACK IN THERE" in about 30 seconds. WTF does that prove? We already explained that work was done on him and that he was able to walk around, and that just because you can walk, doesn't mean you can play. We have evidence of him going back in after he was basically deemed out. Your "history of failure in the face of adversity" applies to his first half of play, not the injury. What does moping and sulking have to do with anything injury related here? Which he didn't do on the sideline afterwards, contrary to what you want to believe in your 3 second snippets from Fox.

 

Whatever, have fun thinking Cutler's a p**** or quit on his team, when all facts point to that being completely untrue. Just not being fair.

[iamshack]

They are supposed to admit something that didn't happen?

 

There are also several players not playing with the same injury (anyone remember Jim McMahon's injury? Oops.). Peers questioning him? Not his team, who know the situation. Any jackass with a twitter account can post a "CUTLER'S A p**** GET BACK IN THERE" in about 30 seconds. WTF does that prove? We already explained that work was done on him and that he was able to walk around, and that just because you can walk, doesn't mean you can play. We have evidence of him going back in after he was basically deemed out. Your "history of failure in the face of adversity" applies to his first half of play, not the injury. What does moping and sulking have to do with anything injury related here? Which he didn't do on the sideline afterwards, contrary to what you want to believe in your 3 second snippets from Fox.

 

Whatever, have fun thinking Cutler's a p**** or quit on his team, when all facts point to that being completely untrue. Just not being fair.

I'm not being fair now? Come on...

 

Jay Cutler is a warrior of massive proportions. He is the toughest man to ever put on the uniform. He is beyond criticism, beyond questioning, and anyone who dares to do so shall be told to retract such opinions.

 

 

 

 

[Controlled Chaos]

Hardy Nickerson FWIW. He wasn't really chopped liver. I think Quarles succeeded him.

Correct, I knew who it was and you're right he wasn't chopped liver. Point was the key theme in stopping the run from a Tampa 2 is directing traffic to the WILL. Hence Brooks' numbers below for Dungy's years in TB. It's amazing what Url has been able to do and how many plays he gets in on that are nowhere near him.

 

2001 - Brooks 80 Duncan 64

2000 - Brooks 125 Duncan 48

1999 - Brooks 118 Nickerson 65

1998 - Brooks 123 Nickerson 45(only played 10 games) Duncan 30 (6 games)

1997 - Nickerson 105 Brooks 102

1996 - Brooks 92 Nickerson 76

 

Probably won't be doing much football talk for a while, so I'm just getting everything out. Check this out for how dedicated this dude was to his craft. Not sure what his training is like now, but this was what he was doing in 05 a year before he was voted "overrated" Would love to see the other MIKE's offseason work out regimens.

[IlliniKrush]

I'm not being fair now? Come on...

 

Jay Cutler is a warrior of massive proportions. He is the toughest man to ever put on the uniform. He is beyond criticism, beyond questioning, and anyone who dares to do so shall be told to retract such opinions.

You aren't, but at least you aren't the only one. There are facts out there you are ignoring. You are only trying to twist stuff to help support what you hope to believe happened. Whatever.

 

And actually, yeah, Cutler is a warrior.

[joejoesox]

Well unfortunately my opinion on what actually happened will never be substantiated because Cutler or the Bears will never admit that the guy quit, because it would ruin his career here in Chicago, and damage his reputation more throughout the league.

 

You and others are acting as though there is some mountain of evidence on your side. But there simply is not. You've got an injury report that says he has an MCL tear and a history of getting up and playing after taking a pounding.

 

I've got evidence of players in his same position playing several games with the same injury. I've got several of his peers questioning him. I've got a training staff that was sooo incredibly concerned about his injury, yet they would allow him to walk around with his incredibly damaged knee merely for the sake of making the Packers believe he could possibly return? I've got a guy who has a history of failure in the face of adversity. I've got a guy who mopes and sulks and then ultimately seems to underperform when the pressure gets dialed up. I mean maybe he cracked...I don't know.

 

Either way, it's what I took away from things, and I am by no means some Cutler hater or someone who was "predisposed" to dislike Cutler. It's my interpretation of things. I stand by that. You've shown me nothing other than some MRI which shows there was an injury, which was stipulated to in the first place.

 

first of all, holy s***. this is what's called a witch hunt or cult of personality

 

take a fan, who already has a pre-existing dislike or hatred towards a player, give them a situation where they can easily rationalize it in their mind into something that in reality doesn't make sense. give this person fellow supporters who share the same dislike of player, and then give them the same dysfunctional ammunition (twitter posts from former players, camera footage of Cutler standing on sideline, poor "body language" that somehow insinuates to this hysterical mob he doesn't care about his team),to come to similar conclusions. the infection has spread, it's unstoppable now

 

if it's fair for you to make wild accusations that bears staff is lying about his injury, it's fair for me to accuse you for lying through your teeth that you're not a Cutler hater. it's so f***ing apparent from your post it's ridiculous

 

i'll leave this discussion with this

 

Contrasting story with similarities to the Cutler injury: Boxers Miguel Cotto and Yuri Foreman squared off at New Yankee Stadium in June of 2010. In the 7th round, Foreman sustained a knee injury (it was apparent that his knee was already lame as it was wrapped in a brace before the fight). Referee Arthur Mercante Jr. told Foreman, "Suck it up champ", and asked him if he could continue. Of course, Foreman acknowledged Mercante's request and continued. Foreman's knee would give out twice more, along with Mercante ignoring a towel throw by Foreman's corner, before succumbing to a vicious body shot by Cotto.

 

Mercante has received intense scrutiny by the national media and fans for allowing Foreman to continue.

 

Foreman had surgery on his knee after the fight, and had torn ACL ligaments and a damaged meniscus.

 

"Rub some dirt on it, Jay!"

Edited January 25, 2011 by joesaiditstrue