Bears versus Packers game thread

[iamshack]

We are just throwing out facts that support our notion. What you suggest involves every player on a team defending a player. That just doesn't happen. Regardless of who that player is and when the player is someone that some posters on here have suggested is not liked in the clubhouse (I personally don't believe that and think by and large he's at the a minimum respected) than it makes me believe even less that it would be possible for everyone to cover it up.

Well, I was reacting to your "Game, set, match. Well played!" post.

[Chisoxfn]

lol. So what? That was f***ing 4 years ago. How many players from that team are still on the current team? And you can't compare Benson to Cutler anyway. Totally different set of circumstances. And for the record, not that my opinion means a damn thing, but my respect for Shack, Sqwert and fathom has f***ing tripled in the last two days. They've been fair, constructive and respectful. The rest of you guys need to take a f***ing valium. Is Cutler paying your bills or something? Now people know what I was talking about when I went off a couple weeks ago.

Respect? To come up with a conspiracy theory, which they are entitled to? And no one knows what you were talking about, you went way off into looney tune land with some of the straw man arguments you were making a couple weeks ago (thankfully, up until this most recent post, you had came back into the real world).

 

Lets see, all of the leaders of this team (outside of Rex) are still here. I can list out tons of players still on this team:

 

Tillman

Urlacher

Briggs

Manning

Hester

Kreutz

Garza

Rashied Davis

Desmond Clark

Idonojie

Mayndard

Gould

Tommie Harris

Chris Harris

Hunter Hillmeyer (IR this year, but still on roster)

 

So ya, quite a few players so I'd say the situation is relevant.

[Chisoxfn]

Benson was a non-proven rookie who reported to camp late and thought he was the s*** before taking a single snap. Not at all a legitimate comparison. He warranted hate from the start.

Kind of like Cutler was ripped by Urlacher after the Bears dealt Orton.

[Balta1701]

Benson was a non-proven rookie who reported to camp late and thought he was the s*** before taking a single snap. Not at all a legitimate comparison. He warranted hate from the start.

Would you continue to respect a QB who gave up on your team and faked an injury because he was losing at halftime?

[iamshack]

Would you continue to respect a QB who gave up on your team and faked an injury because he was losing at halftime?

Not one person has said he faked an injury.

 

I'm not sure how many times this has to be pointed out.

[Chisoxfn]

Not one person has said he faked an injury.

 

I'm not sure how many times this has to be pointed out.

So you think he was hurt and believe it was a valid reason to sit out? But just question how much he was helping Hanie?

 

Is that kind of your basis Shack? Just want to make sure I follow. I can understand the above. I don't know if he was there for Hanie 100% of the time.

[Balta1701]

Not one person has said he faked an injury.

 

I'm not sure how many times this has to be pointed out.

Ok, rephrasing..."was a wimp and came out of a game because of a totally weak injury".

 

Same difference...either way, you're telling me that an entire locker room would stand behind a guy who quit on them and came out of a game that he shouldn't have.

[iamshack]

Respect? To come up with a conspiracy theory, which they are entitled to?

First of all, maybe he is recognizing how we have refused to insult others or call them names while we have constantly been called "meatheads," among many other things.

 

Secondly, a conspiracy theory is just your way of making this sound far-fethched. There is a reason that the Fox commentators, players from around the league, and millions of fans immediately thought he quit on his team. Because his behavior up to this point doesn't exactly make that such a huge leap.

 

Now you guys can defend him and the Bears all you want, and I respect that.

 

Doesn't mean I have to agree with you.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Kind of like Cutler was ripped by Urlacher after the Bears dealt Orton.

 

And it was squashed like two seconds later. And I don't get a boner to whatever Brian Urlacher is thinking regardless. That was over two years ago.

 

Would you continue to respect a QB who gave up on your team and faked an injury because he was losing at halftime?

 

How the hell is anybody gonna know for certain IF he was faking or not? I mean, I don't think he was but let's not act like there's no reason to question the guy. He WAS hurt. But was he HURT? That's the question. I don't recall a single person ever denying that he didn't get hurt. COULD he have played? That's the argument. And all you guys are acting like somebody raped your mothers. I stayed out of this thread. I do my Bears posting on another site. But this s*** is ridiculous. I would've been suspended long before now. Props to Shack, fathom and sqwert for keepin' it clean.

[IlliniKrush]

Here's a nice article on the nuts and bolts of the injury

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/201...tory?id=6054809

[StrangeSox]

And that's most likely all I will ever have, SS. Speculation. But all sorts of things have happened in the sports world and in other well-documented events, that all we can do is speculate about. There is no proof.

 

Edit: And come on, SS...as if I haven't argued my position ad nauseum.

 

I know you've argued your position, I just haven't seen any support for it.

 

To have a good theory, your idea needs to be consistent with what reliable evidence is known, and it needs to explain that evidence. You also need to have good reason for dismissing any evidence that goes against your idea. All you've given so far is personal incredulity, and that's not really support for an argument.

[fathom]

So you think he was hurt and believe it was a valid reason to sit out? But just question how much he was helping Hanie?

 

I don't care how much he was helping Hanie, as Collins is likely a better mentor anyways. I never said Cutler wasn't hurt either. I think he was really struggling in the first half and seemed extremely lethargic for some reason. He then got injured towards first half, and after trying to play in the 2nd half with it on that first drive, he obviously didn't give the trainers the answers they wanted to hear. The only reason there's even the hint of controversy, IMO, is the lack of medical attention given to him after he was pulled.

[IlliniKrush]

And it was squashed like two seconds later. And I don't get a boner to whatever Brian Urlacher is thinking regardless. That was over two years ago.

 

 

 

How the hell is anybody gonna know for certain IF he was faking or not? I mean, I don't think he was but let's not act like there's no reason to question the guy. He WAS hurt. But was he HURT? That's the question. I don't recall a single person ever denying that he didn't get hurt. COULD he have played? That's the argument. And all you guys are acting like somebody raped your mothers. I stayed out of this thread. I do my Bears posting on another site. But this s*** is ridiculous. I would've been suspended long before now. Props to Shack, fathom and sqwert for keepin' it clean.

What? How will he know if he was faking or not? If the MRI showed nothing maybe?

 

You don't have to think he wasn't faking because, well, he wasn't.

 

*************

 

He did play again, despite the recs of doctors and trainers, and couldn't go after it.

 

So yes, he was injured. And it makes sense why he couldn't play.

 

There's a lot of evidence, medically, as well as stories/opinions from those close to the situation's opinion that he didn't quit. The other side is just conspiracy.

Edited January 25, 2011 by IlliniKrush

[BigSqwert]

He WAS hurt. But was he HURT? That's the question. I don't recall a single person ever denying that he didn't get hurt. COULD he have played? That's the argument. And all you guys are acting like somebody raped your mothers.

 

That's the whole crux of my argument. As an unbiased fan of the game, I saw a player that didn't look very injured, was walking around with no medical attention on the sidelines, no icing, no crutches, and seemed content with not being out on the field in the most important game of his career...one game away from the Super Bowl. I am certain other QBs in that same situation would have continued to play (i.e., Favre, Rivers, Brees). We see players play injured all of the time.

 

You're telling me they couldn't have used a 3 step drop game plan that they used against Dallas in order to keep their best arm out on the field?

Edited January 25, 2011 by BigSqwert

[Balta1701]

I think he was really struggling in the first half and seemed extremely lethargic for some reason. He then got injured towards first half, and after trying to play in the 2nd half with it on that first drive, he obviously didn't give the trainers the answers they wanted to hear.

I'd still bet you that his knee was bothering him pretty early in that game, and my guess is that he first tweaked it on the play where he took 3 steps and then had 2 packers on top of him on like the 2nd drive. Everything after that was off target.

[Chisoxfn]

First of all, maybe he is recognizing how we have refused to insult others or call them names while we have constantly been called "meatheads," among many other things.

 

Secondly, a conspiracy theory is just your way of making this sound far-fethched. There is a reason that the Fox commentators, players from around the league, and millions of fans immediately thought he quit on his team. Because his behavior up to this point doesn't exactly make that such a huge leap.

 

Now you guys can defend him and the Bears all you want, and I respect that.

 

Doesn't mean I have to agree with you.

I never saw one player who has ever played or known Cutler go out and bash him. I have seen numerous NFL players that bashed him yesterday come back and apologize at a later point for there stupid comments.

[StrangeSox]

Secondly, a conspiracy theory is just your way of making this sound far-fethched. There is a reason that the Fox commentators, players from around the league, and millions of fans immediately thought he quit on his team. Because his behavior up to this point doesn't exactly make that such a huge leap.

 

See, that just doesn't follow. The criticism came out immediately following him being pulled from the game. And, prior to that, he's never done anything to indicate he's a quitter or that he won't stay in the game even when he's getting his ass kicked every other play. So it is a pretty huge leap from "the guy's a dick and aloof" to "he's a p****"

[IlliniKrush]

I know you've argued your position, I just haven't seen any support for it.

 

To have a good theory, your idea needs to be consistent with what reliable evidence is known, and it needs to explain that evidence. You also need to have good reason for dismissing any evidence that goes against your idea. All you've given so far is personal incredulity, and that's not really support for an argument.

Couldn't say it much better than that. Well put.

[fathom]

How the hell is anybody gonna know for certain IF he was faking or not? I mean, I don't think he was but let's not act like there's no reason to question the guy. He WAS hurt. But was he HURT? That's the question. I don't recall a single person ever denying that he didn't get hurt. COULD he have played? That's the argument. And all you guys are acting like somebody raped your mothers. I stayed out of this thread. I do my Bears posting on another site. But this s*** is ridiculous. I would've been suspended long before now. Props to Shack, fathom and sqwert for keepin' it clean.

 

You're a good baseball person, so the first thought that came to my mind after the Cutler controversy was if it was another Mark Prior situation. Prior used to always take himself out of games and make the doctors do an MRI on his shoulder. They kept finding ligament strains, etc., but nothing that needed surgery or was unlike what a lot of other pitchers had pitched through.

 

Jason, I'll give you credit for posting the information about the cortisone shot and diabetes. Very interesting, if for nothing more than to know for future situations.

[StrangeSox]

That's the whole crux of my argument. As an unbiased fan of the game, I saw a player that didn't look very injured, was walking around with no medical attention on the sidelines, no icing, no crutches, and seemed content with not being out on the field in the most important game of his career...one game away from the Super Bowl. I am certain other QBs in that same situation would have continued to play (i.e., Favre, Rivers, Brees). We see players play injured all of the time.

 

You're telling me they couldn't have used a 3 step drop game plan that they used against Dallas in order to keep their best arm out on the field?

 

How bad does a player with a minor concussion look on the sidelines? How about Urlacher with his wrist injury last year? Medical judgements from someone who isn't even in the medical field who's watching TV don't really mean much.

[fathom]

What? How will he know if he was faking or not? If the MRI showed nothing maybe?

 

You don't have to think he wasn't faking because, well, he wasn't.

 

 

I don't believe this theory, but if you wanted to cover for your star playing "quitting" in a game, saying he has an MCL sprain that requires extensive rest but no surgery would be the perfect cover-up. However, please read my first 5 words of this post before jumping on this.

[Chisoxfn]

I don't care how much he was helping Hanie, as Collins is likely a better mentor anyways. I never said Cutler wasn't hurt either. I think he was really struggling in the first half and seemed extremely lethargic for some reason. He then got injured towards first half, and after trying to play in the 2nd half with it on that first drive, he obviously didn't give the trainers the answers they wanted to hear. The only reason there's even the hint of controversy, IMO, is the lack of medical attention given to him after he was pulled.

Perfect. So as far as I'm concerned, our opinions don't really differ that much. And I agree he played bad (and has in his career against Capers D) as did Rodgers after the first drive or so of the game.

[IlliniKrush]

Secondly, a conspiracy theory is just your way of making this sound far-fethched. There is a reason that the Fox commentators, players from around the league, and millions of fans immediately thought he quit on his team. Because his behavior up to this point doesn't exactly make that such a huge leap.

Now you are making a different argument, that the guy is a jackass. Which I'm not going to argue with you - or even disagree with.

 

The argument is whether or not he essentially quit on his team, which he has never done even after getting the crap beat out of him for 2 years.

[Balta1701]

You're a good baseball person, so the first thought that came to my mind after the Cutler controversy was if it was another Mark Prior situation. Prior used to always take himself out of games and make the doctors do an MRI on his shoulder. They kept finding ligament strains, etc., but nothing that needed surgery or was unlike what a lot of other pitchers had pitched through.

And yet...a few years later, he finally went under Dr. James Andrews's knife, and basically wound up having a complete shoulder reconstruction.

[Chisoxfn]

That's the whole crux of my argument. As an unbiased fan of the game, I saw a player that didn't look very injured, was walking around with no medical attention on the sidelines, no icing, no crutches, and seemed content with not being out on the field in the most important game of his career...one game away from the Super Bowl. I am certain other QBs in that same situation would have continued to play (i.e., Favre, Rivers, Brees). We see players play injured all of the time.

 

You're telling me they couldn't have used a 3 step drop game plan that they used against Dallas in order to keep their best arm out on the field?

Content would be if he was on the sidelines joking and laughing the entire 2nd half while on the sidelines. I definitely didn't see a guy content. I saw an expressionless guy.