danman31 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 09:10 AM) No, its a shot at any school that thinks the SEC is going to help them somehow. Why not stay in the conference that is losing teams so that you can make a BCS game perhaps and make a ton of cash. As long as OU and Texas are in the Big 12 it's unlikely Missouri wins that anyway. If they leave, it's not clear the Big 12 is a BCS conference. Basically, any league that Missouri would be favored in more than once in a blue moon is in danger of losing its AQ status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 QUOTE (danman31 @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 12:09 PM) As long as OU and Texas are in the Big 12 it's unlikely Missouri wins that anyway. If they leave, it's not clear the Big 12 is a BCS conference. Basically, any league that Missouri would be favored in more than once in a blue moon is in danger of losing its AQ status. My post wasnt specifically about them. Either way, the odds are much better outside of the SEC. I would think most schools goals would be to make a BCS bowl and make more money. I just dont get why the middle of the road teams are so in favor of super conferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 01:02 PM) My post wasnt specifically about them. Either way, the odds are much better outside of the SEC. I would think most schools goals would be to make a BCS bowl and make more money. I just dont get why the middle of the road teams are so in favor of super conferences. My point is that a middle of the road or even perennial top 25 program that doesn't break into the top 10 every year is unlikely to go to a BCS bowl anyway. What does moving to a super conference do to change that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 QUOTE (danman31 @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 02:10 PM) My point is that a middle of the road or even perennial top 25 program that doesn't break into the top 10 every year is unlikely to go to a BCS bowl anyway. What does moving to a super conference do to change that? I dont know if I agree with that. This is just an example (so easy fellas) if Illinois or Iowa moved from the big ten (12) to the SEC, do they 1. Ever win a conference title 2. Make a BCS bowl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 02:13 PM) I dont know if I agree with that. This is just an example (so easy fellas) if Illinois or Iowa moved from the big ten (12) to the SEC, do they 1. Ever win a conference title 2. Make a BCS bowl? That's an unfair example because can you imagine Illinois winning a Big Ten title now anyway? Sure it will happen someday, but with where the program is it's not going to be anytime soon. I guess your argument is that Illinois' best teams (01 and 07) wouldn't have made BCS bowls in the SEC, which is a reasonable argument. Look at South Carolina and Arkansas though. Neither is a top tier program or anywhere close. Arkansas just went to the Sugar Bowl and SC was in the SEC title game. Any school that moves to the SEC is likely to see a recruiting boost (short of an already elite school like OU or Texas making that move) and fit in more competitively. I can see your point, but I think you're underestimating the amount of parody we've seen within big conferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I can see your point, but I think you're underestimating the amount of parody we've seen within big conferences. "Weird Al" Yankovic didn't attend a BCS school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 QUOTE (danman31 @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 02:23 PM) That's an unfair example because can you imagine Illinois winning a Big Ten title now anyway? Sure it will happen someday, but with where the program is it's not going to be anytime soon. I guess your argument is that Illinois' best teams (01 and 07) wouldn't have made BCS bowls in the SEC, which is a reasonable argument. Absolutely. They aren't favorites, but it's not unimaginable they win one in the next few seasons. Some have them as a darkhorse for it this season, if Wisconson stumbles somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 02:45 PM) "Weird Al" Yankovic didn't attend a BCS school. Yeesh tough crowd. Parity. Happy? Huskers...I tell ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 02:54 PM) Absolutely. They aren't favorites, but it's not unimaginable they win one in the next few seasons. Some have them as a darkhorse for it this season, if Wisconson stumbles somewhere. He loves taking shots at the Illini, it's what he does as a Mizzou guy. Makes it sound like we're bottom feeders of the Big Ten, which is just ignorant anyway. Still pissed they beat ASU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 07:05 PM) He loves taking shots at the Illini, it's what he does as a Mizzou guy. Makes it sound like we're bottom feeders of the Big Ten, which is just ignorant anyway. Still pissed they beat ASU. Lies! I hated U of I long before going to Mizzou. Mainly cause I couldn't stand how my uncles thought it is the only school witha degree that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flippedoutpunk Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 10:19 PM) Mainly cause I couldn't stand how my uncles thought it is the only school witha degree that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 07:05 PM) He loves taking shots at the Illini, it's what he does as a Mizzou guy. Makes it sound like we're bottom feeders of the Big Ten, which is just ignorant anyway. Still pissed they beat ASU. That wasn't a shot at Illinois. It was a realistic statement. I don't see Illinois winning the Big Ten as long as Ron Zook is the coach. I would think many Illinois fans would agree with that statement. However, if you doubt Illinois is a bottom feeder, look no further than their conference record. In the last 9 seasons Illinois has one winning season in conference play with a record of 21-51. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (danman31 @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 11:32 PM) That wasn't a shot at Illinois. It was a realistic statement. I don't see Illinois winning the Big Ten as long as Ron Zook is the coach. I would think many Illinois fans would agree with that statement. However, if you doubt Illinois is a bottom feeder, look no further than their conference record. In the last 9 seasons Illinois has one winning season in conference play with a record of 21-51. We're not a bottom feeder right now - we're talking about current/future state of the program, per your original post. Last 9 years not exactly relevant to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) I'd be very surprised if Illinois doesn't win their division if they beat Wisconsin. Admittedly, that's VERY unlikely, but they do have them at home. I'd also be quite surprised if Illinois wins less than 8 regular season games. The program is making progress right now. They'll never be elite under Coach Zook (at least not overall, they can scatter in occasional outstanding seasons), but if they're winning 8 games, people are going to be happy. Edited September 23, 2011 by whitesoxfan101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I'd put the odds of Illinois winning the B1G anytime soon at about 5%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 11:41 PM) They'll never be elite under Coach Zook (at least not overall, they can scatter in occasional outstanding seasons), but if they're winning 8 games, people are going to be happy. Right, I don't think there's anything wrong with that either. Rock's point was that a team like that is only hurt in a super conference, but I'm not so sure it makes a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmteam Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 11:39 PM) We're not a bottom feeder right now - we're talking about current/future state of the program, per your original post. Last 9 years not exactly relevant to that. This seems like grasping at straws. A big part of the "bottom feeder" thing is perception -- which is heavily influenced by the last 9 years of performance (or lackthereof). I mean, is Illinois a "bottom feeder" in the same way IU or Minnesota (and really, putting Minnesota in our company is a bit disingenuous to them, ha!) is? No; but they're nowhere near the top (Not even in the top half, as Michigan, Ohio St., Nebraska, Iowa, Penn St., and Wisconsin are definitely ahead of them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 11:39 PM) We're not a bottom feeder right now - we're talking about current/future state of the program, per your original post. Last 9 years not exactly relevant to that. IMO in every conference pre-bulls***, there are 2-4 teams that can make runs at conference titles every few years when the talent aligns. They are hindered by either facilities, coaching or talent pool. The whole "Super Conference" thing hurts these schools IMO and I think its horrible for the fan bases because it probably decreases their chances at attending BCS bowl games or even top tier bowl games outside of the BCS. I think they are moving towards 4 "Supers" and hopefully there will be some sort of a playoff between those teams, however you cannot ignore that it will hurt some programs. I could be wrong at every team could eventually have multiple losses which will make the playing field more even, but if this perceived recruiting advantage exists for teams joining larger conferences, I would think it also helps consolidate the talent within the top tier schools in those new conferences even more than it is today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Depends on how you define "hurting" those some programs. This is all about money anyway. If a slightly larger amount of money goes to the conference, and that money trickles down to the programs that are being "Hurt" competitively, then those programs might well not care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (farmteam @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 12:55 AM) This seems like grasping at straws. A big part of the "bottom feeder" thing is perception -- which is heavily influenced by the last 9 years of performance (or lackthereof). I mean, is Illinois a "bottom feeder" in the same way IU or Minnesota (and really, putting Minnesota in our company is a bit disingenuous to them, ha!) is? No; but they're nowhere near the top (Not even in the top half, as Michigan, Ohio St., Nebraska, Iowa, Penn St., and Wisconsin are definitely ahead of them). Nebraska hasnt won a conference title since 1999, Illinois last won the Big Ten in 2001. Nebraska hasnt been to a BCS bowl since 2002, Illinois went in 2008. They are exactly the type of team that has shown over time has the ability to win a conference title and go to a big bowl game every so often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (danman31 @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 11:32 PM) That wasn't a shot at Illinois. It was a realistic statement. I don't see Illinois winning the Big Ten as long as Ron Zook is the coach. I would think many Illinois fans would agree with that statement. However, if you doubt Illinois is a bottom feeder, look no further than their conference record. In the last 9 seasons Illinois has one winning season in conference play with a record of 21-51. Do I expect Illinois to win a Big Ten title under Zook? No. But I would never say it's unimaginable. With the right combo of talent and scheduling, they have shown they can grab a title or two occasionally. They have a sophomore QB who has already shown tons of ability too. In the last 4 seasons, they are 15-17 in conference. Ron Turner turned the program into a joke and its been a long battle back out of that mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 08:55 AM) Do I expect Illinois to win a Big Ten title under Zook? No. But I would never say it's unimaginable. With the right combo of talent and scheduling, they have shown they can grab a title or two occasionally. They have a sophomore QB who has already shown tons of ability too. In the last 4 seasons, they are 15-17 in conference. Ron Turner turned the program into a joke and its been a long battle back out of that mess. IMO if they can beat Wisconsin they win the Big Ten this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (farmteam @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 12:55 AM) This seems like grasping at straws. A big part of the "bottom feeder" thing is perception -- which is heavily influenced by the last 9 years of performance (or lackthereof). I mean, is Illinois a "bottom feeder" in the same way IU or Minnesota (and really, putting Minnesota in our company is a bit disingenuous to them, ha!) is? No; but they're nowhere near the top (Not even in the top half, as Michigan, Ohio St., Nebraska, Iowa, Penn St., and Wisconsin are definitely ahead of them). We're not in the top half of the Big Ten? Again, we're talking THIS year. Of those 6 teams you listed, I'd say 2 are clearly better than us, that's about it. This year, Penn St, Iowa, OSU, and Michigan are not even close to "definitely ahead" of Illinois, if ahead at all. QUOTE (RockRaines @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 09:08 AM) IMO if they can beat Wisconsin they win the Big Ten this season. If we can set up for that yeah. But we'd have to avoid the "wtf loss" before that. We'd have to be at a max of 1 big ten loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Iowa is just not as good this year. In their game against Iowa State, despite them going to Coker like 35 times, I thought they went away from him too much in the second half. Once Ferentz started getting pass happy against Iowa State, things went downhill for them. Granted, our corners are pretty decent. I think they really do miss DJK this year, he allowed them to do a bit more in their offense than they do now. And yes, I realize that Vandenberg went off in the fourth against Pitt. Of course, Iowa got Steele Jantz'ed pretty hard too. Also, I haven't said much about ISU this year....but it's been a hell of a lot of fun this year. We will have our third straight sellout against Texas, and honestly, for the first time in my life, if we play our game, we should expect to beat the Longhorns. Fact is, we've been downright bad in terms of turnovers this year (Jantz started 0-4 with 3 INT against UConn) but still managed to win. I was expecting three wins this year, and we're already there. Who would have thunk that when we'd play Texas, it'd be to get into the Top 25, a primetime game on FX with Gus Johnson calling it? I guess our bookstore is selling these too: The weird thing is, the Big 12 stuff has really dampened the best ISU start to a season since 2002. I wasn't sold on Paul Rhoads at first, but I'm getting there. I do know that I love my team. And the crazy s*** Steele Jantz pulls. Because he still has a negative passer rating in the first quarter this year. Oh, and I'll jump on the hate ND bandwagon....well at least Brian Kelly. f*** him. Hope he loses his job. You let a kid die on your watch, you shouldn't be trusted with the well being of over a hundred others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmteam Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 06:50 PM) We're not in the top half of the Big Ten? Again, we're talking THIS year. Of those 6 teams you listed, I'd say 2 are clearly better than us, that's about it. This year, Penn St, Iowa, OSU, and Michigan are not even close to "definitely ahead" of Illinois, if ahead at all. I'll eat crow if this doesn't happen, but I bet every team I listed has a better B1G record than Illinois. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts