Paint it Black Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 3, 2011 -> 10:06 AM) Just an FYI, Dunn would have been a member of the White Sox last year had the Sox been willing to give up Dayan Viciedo. This is true, and I wish the trade would have been done. Instead of trading for and then signing Dunn, the Sox lose the draft pick in a draft that is very deep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Feb 3, 2011 -> 06:42 PM) This is true, and I wish the trade would have been done. Instead of trading for and then signing Dunn, the Sox lose the draft pick in a draft that is very deep. Eh, I'd take Dayan over the 20somethingth pick in the draft. We at least know Dayan has made the majors, which is already an improvement over most players picked at that stage of the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt4life Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Watching Dayan last season in his big league stint I was very impressed by his natural talent. He certainly has the ability to put the bat on the ball despite having poor plate discipline, in addition to that, the ball absolutely flies off his bat. He hit some lazers and really knows how to use the whole field, I was more impressed with him having seen him in person than just having read about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Feb 3, 2011 -> 06:42 PM) This is true, and I wish the trade would have been done. Instead of trading for and then signing Dunn, the Sox lose the draft pick in a draft that is very deep. No offense, but that logic is stupid. The value of a nearly major league ready prospect with all-star potential who's only 21 years old is far greater than that of the 20th pick in a deep draft who's at least 2 to 3 years from the majors. Worst case scenario, Viciedo will be a quality platoon 1B/DH, while the draft pick will flame out within a year and give you nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Exactly. And even if the Sox decide halfway through the year that they don't want/need Viciedo in the future, as they did with Dan Hudson this past year, atleast they have the ability to trade him still. They don't have that with a draft pick this year, and it would probably take an additional year beyond that to establish the trade value of that prospect assuming they don't get injured. I will gladly take Viciedo over that draft pick. I think most will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 3, 2011 -> 10:09 PM) Exactly. And even if the Sox decide halfway through the year that they don't want/need Viciedo in the future, as they did with Dan Hudson this past year, atleast they have the ability to trade him still. They don't have that with a draft pick this year, and it would probably take an additional year beyond that to establish the trade value of that prospect assuming they don't get injured. I will gladly take Viciedo over that draft pick. I think most will. But what's the market for an all bat, no position player? That's my concern. That would immediately eliminate the NL. And the DH only days seem to be coming to an end (there's obviously some exceptions). Edited February 4, 2011 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 3, 2011 -> 10:30 PM) But what's the market for an all bat, no position player? That's my concern. That would immediately eliminate the NL. And the DH only days seem to be coming to an end (there's obviously some exceptions). He has no position HERE. Hell, we were talking Tank/Dunn platoon until we signed PK. I get your point but in no way is it fact. Chad Tracy was playing last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Feb 3, 2011 -> 10:45 PM) He has no position HERE. Hell, we were talking Tank/Dunn platoon until we signed PK. I get your point but in no way is it fact. Chad Tracy was playing last year. Nobody said anything was fact. Until Dayan proves he can play a position at an acceptable level then his value is supressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 3, 2011 -> 08:37 PM) No offense, but that logic is stupid. The value of a nearly major league ready prospect with all-star potential who's only 21 years old is far greater than that of the 20th pick in a deep draft who's at least 2 to 3 years from the majors. Worst case scenario, Viciedo will be a quality platoon 1B/DH, while the draft pick will flame out within a year and give you nothing. Well I personally believe that in this draft, a first round pick might have more upside, potential, and be better than Viciedo, but I'm not making my arguments again. Also, Viciedo's worst case scenario is that he sucks and can't stick. Lets not take 1/2 a season as proof that he is good enough. Case in point: Josh Fields. Plus, Viciedo is still a few years a away with him switching positions and awful plate discipline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 3, 2011 -> 11:50 PM) Nobody said anything was fact. Until Dayan proves he can play a position at an acceptable level then his value is supressed. Again...when has he been given the chance? He played 1 full season at 3b, then spent 1/3 of a season at 1b, 1/3 of a season on the major league bench, and then the last part of last season back at 3b, not because he wasn't getting better at any position, but instead because of the needs of the major league team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Feb 4, 2011 -> 06:55 AM) Well I personally believe that in this draft, a first round pick might have more upside, potential, and be better than Viciedo, but I'm not making my arguments again. Also, Viciedo's worst case scenario is that he sucks and can't stick. Lets not take 1/2 a season as proof that he is good enough. Case in point: Josh Fields. Plus, Viciedo is still a few years a away with him switching positions and awful plate discipline. The fact that Dayan has already played in the majors is an improvement over the average draft pick taken in the range that the Sox would have been picking in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 3, 2011 -> 10:30 PM) But what's the market for an all bat, no position player? That's my concern. That would immediately eliminate the NL. And the DH only days seem to be coming to an end (there's obviously some exceptions). I would say that value is approximately $14 million a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 5, 2011 -> 10:41 PM) I would say that value is approximately $14 million a year. Unfortunately, I don't think rival GMs will reference fangraphs when evaluating his worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 6, 2011 -> 12:49 AM) Unfortunately, I don't think rival GMs will reference fangraphs when evaluating his worth. Ha, I was just using Dunn's value per year. I genuinely have no idea what someone else would pay a DH, but outside of 2010, the White Sox have shown that they have no problem spending upwards of $10 mill a year on a DH if they are the right fit. Other teams have spent $6-8 mill (and sometimes more). It's just a matter of the quality of the hitter. I genuinely believe that a all bat, no glove player is far more valuable than a no bat, all glove player. The all glove player is more well rounded and can play in either league every day, but there isn't a lot of depth to his game. A good hitter can do quite a bit for a team, even if they are sitting on the bench, forcing the opposing manager to use a different pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 3, 2011 -> 09:30 PM) But what's the market for an all bat, no position player? That's my concern. That would immediately eliminate the NL. And the DH only days seem to be coming to an end (there's obviously some exceptions). Matt Holliday plays in the NL. If you're bat's good enough, it's not an issue. I wouldn't rule out 1B in the long-range plan for Dayan either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Feb 6, 2011 -> 12:24 PM) Matt Holliday plays in the NL. If you're bat's good enough, it's not an issue. I wouldn't rule out 1B in the long-range plan for Dayan either. Matt Holliday is pretty solid defensively. Carlos Lee would have been a better example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 6, 2011 -> 01:37 PM) Matt Holliday is pretty solid defensively. Carlos Lee would have been a better example. $37 million still left on that mess of a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 6, 2011 -> 02:51 PM) $37 million still left on that mess of a deal. The Astros need to start playing him in CF. A few weeks out there and the Angels will jump at him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 6, 2011 -> 01:37 PM) Matt Holliday is pretty solid defensively. Carlos Lee would have been a better example. Or, you know, our very own Carlos Quentin. He is certainly all bat, no glove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 6, 2011 -> 12:37 PM) Matt Holliday is pretty solid defensively. Carlos Lee would have been a better example. Haven't checked his stats. Watched him every game he was here in Colorado - wasn't impressed with the glove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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