*Official* Work Out Thread

[Reddy]

I work out in the AM - I need protein in the AM because of this.

pre or post workout?

 

even post workout ideally you'd take in something that has a 4:1 carb to protein ratio

[Jake]

1) how old are you?

 

2) your body can really only process about 30g of protein at any given time, the rest just gets peed out... so the 60g protein shakes are a bit of a waste to be honest.

 

This is not at all accurate. It is a diet myth. It is based on a study that showed muscle protein synthesis peaked in the acute setting at about 25g protein. More is still better.

 

There are more informative studies showing that timing of meals as well as even quality of food do not result in significant physique changes. If you focus on good macronutrient ratios, you will find that little else matters.

[Y2HH]

I work out in the AM - I need protein in the AM because of this.

 

The process of rebuilding muscle takes place over 24+ hours...you need protein, but you don't need a megaton of it all at once. A steady supply will work just as well over a few hours time. You do need some, carbs, fat and protein directly after a workout, but you don't need to overload...the process of rebuilding will continue throughout the day and into the night.

[Reddy]

This is not at all accurate. It is a diet myth. It is based on a study that showed muscle protein synthesis peaked in the acute setting at about 25g protein. More is still better.

 

There are more informative studies showing that timing of meals as well as even quality of food do not result in significant physique changes. If you focus on good macronutrient ratios, you will find that little else matters.

i think you're right, but only to a point. people don't get to looking like fitness models by eating whatever the hell they want whenever they want it as long as they hit their macros.

 

i think it's a gradient, and the more specific you are, the better your results.

 

HOWEVER, we're talking about only the elite of the elite. For the average person just looking to get in better shape and lower their risk of illness and injury, you're probably right.

[Y2HH]

for whom is this NOT the case? out of curiosity

 

For skinny people that have a very hard time packing on muscle or weight of any kind.

[Reddy]

For skinny people that have a very hard time packing on muscle or weight of any kind.

Truth.

[Y2HH]

Also, keep in mind these general suggestions hardly apply to anyone at all.

 

Depending on your body style, weight, metabolism, current muscular status, etc...your needs will change over time.

 

For example, I re-started working out again a few months ago, I take NO protein supplements and my bicep went from 15.5" to 17.5". Just because *I* don't need to supplement protein, however, doesn't mean you don't. So try to keep that in mind when you read any sort of general guidelines.

[Jake]

Also, keep in mind these general suggestions hardly apply to anyone at all.

 

Depending on your body style, weight, metabolism, current muscular status, etc...your needs will change over time.

 

For example, I re-started working out again a few months ago, I take NO protein supplements and my bicep went from 15.5" to 17.5". Just because *I* don't need to supplement protein, however, doesn't mean you don't. So try to keep that in mind when you read any sort of general guidelines.

 

The "how much protein" question is probably the most debated in fitness. There are two things to consider:

 

1. There is an amount of protein that optimizes muscle growth.

 

2. There is also an extent to which eating protein instead of other macronutrients can result in a more favorable body composition. Depending on your natural propensity to gain fat, this may be very noticeable or not at all.

 

When I'm going at it hard, I try to eat a gram of protein for every pound of weight. A better guideline is likely one gram for every pound lean bodyweight. The real optimal amount for muscle growth could be lower than that, but there really is no such thing as too much. It is also likely that getting to the optimal amount of point 1 is likely still below the optimal amount of point 2.

[Y2HH]

The "how much protein" question is probably the most debated in fitness. There are two things to consider:

 

1. There is an amount of protein that optimizes muscle growth.

 

2. There is also an extent to which eating protein instead of other macronutrients can result in a more favorable body composition. Depending on your natural propensity to gain fat, this may be very noticeable or not at all.

 

When I'm going at it hard, I try to eat a gram of protein for every pound of weight. A better guideline is likely one gram for every pound lean bodyweight. The real optimal amount for muscle growth could be lower than that, but there really is no such thing as too much. It is also likely that getting to the optimal amount of point 1 is likely still below the optimal amount of point 2.

 

There is such as thing as too much...you can damage your kidneys with routine protein overdosing.

[Reddy]

There is such as thing as too much...you can damage your kidneys with routine protein overdosing.

absolutely. oddly enough, to pack on muscle, you really don't NEED a protein macronutrient level higher than 25% (again, generally speaking). High protein macros are pretty much just used to drop body fat, since it just keeps you from eating carbs. That's pretty much the dirty secret behind that.

[Jake]

There is such as thing as too much...you can damage your kidneys with routine protein overdosing.

 

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition...troversies.html

[Jake]

absolutely. oddly enough, to pack on muscle, you really don't NEED a protein macronutrient level higher than 25% (again, generally speaking). High protein macros are pretty much just used to drop body fat, since it just keeps you from eating carbs. That's pretty much the dirty secret behind that.

 

The proportion is meaningless in terms of muscle growth. It is just the actual amount. So, yes, if you're eating 3000 cals a day, 25% if probably enough. If you eat 4000, that's probably way more than enough.

 

Think of it in terms of total grams for muscle gain. I actually think it is generally worthless to get caught up in the ratios.

[Y2HH]

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition...troversies.html

 

Inconclusive.

 

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/high-protein-diets/AN00847

 

While also inconclusive...let's just look at this logically. Too much of anything is ALWAYS bad for you. The fact that you can OD on water and die (has happened), should tell you that you can, in fact, intake too much protein.

[ptatc]

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition...troversies.html

No offense but the reference is from one person's view and all of his references are at least 7 years out of date.

 

There are many articles related to excess protein and possible damage to the body. Here is an abstract from the journal Toxicology, a well-respected research journal:

 

Recent studies have revealed that trichloroethylene (TCE) can induce occupational medicamentosa-like dermatitis (OMLD) with multi-system injuries, including liver, kidney and skin injuries, which can subsequently cause multiple organ failure later. But the mechanism of immune dysfunction leading to organ injury was rarely clarified. The present study was initiated to analyze the influence of trichloroethylene on renal injury and study the relevant mechanism in guinea pigs. Guinea pig maximization test (GPMT) was carried out. Inflammation on the guinea pigs' skin was scored. Kidney function, urine protein and ultra-structural change of kidney were determined by biochemical detection and electron microscope. Deposition of complement 3 and membrane attack complex (MAC, C5b-9) were determined by immunohistochemistry. Erythema and edema of skin impairment were observed in TCE sensitized groups, and sensitization rate was 63.16%. Through electron microscope, tubular epithelial cell mitochondrial swelling, vacuolar degeneration and atrophy of microvillus were observed in TCE sensitized groups. The parameters of urease and urinary protein elevated markedly, and a high degree of C3 and MAC deposition was found in the renal tubular epithelial cells in TCE sensitized groups. By demonstrating that TCE and its metabolites can cause the deposition of C3 and MAC in renal epithelial cells, we found that activated complement system may be the mechanism of the acceleration and the development of TCE-induced kidney disease.

 

Again I don't take any one source and put much weight on it. However, too much of any one thing is usually not good. Something as toxic as protein can cause problems. As long as you monitor the extra protein you are probably fine but it needs to be monitored.

[Reddy]

ptac throwing it down!

[TaylorStSox]

My goal is to build muscle, lose fat and still have the energy to perform my job, which is high cardio/endurance. I don't want to necessarily bulk, but it's not easy for me to gain muscle while cycling so much. I also want the diet and workout to be sustainable. I'm trying to make a long term change.

 

I drink protein shakes post workout and not a 4:1 recovery drink because I have to go jump on the bike for hours after working out. Would it be more beneficial to drink a recovery drink instead?

 

Ultimately, I think I need to get a heart rate monitor to find out just how many calories I actually burn while cycling. Since my bike fitness level is high, it takes less effort to maintain speed as opposed to someone who rides less, so I assume.

[Reddy]

My goal is to build muscle, lose fat and still have the energy to perform my job, which is high cardio/endurance. I don't want to necessarily bulk, but it's not easy for me to gain muscle while cycling so much. I also want the diet and workout to be sustainable. I'm trying to make a long term change.

 

I drink protein shakes post workout and not a 4:1 recovery drink because I have to go jump on the bike for hours after working out. Would it be more beneficial to drink a recovery drink instead?

 

Ultimately, I think I need to get a heart rate monitor to find out just how many calories I actually burn while cycling. Since my bike fitness level is high, it takes less effort to maintain speed as opposed to someone who rides less, so I assume.

 

in my opinion yes. the recovery drink gets your blood sugar back to normal levels quickly, and repairs tired muscles faster. in addition, though, you'd want to have a complex carb - heavy meal post workout as well, before you start your job. to do the high cardio/endurance thing, you really need a lot of carbs. I usually have a big ole bowl of steel cut oats after a workout with some flax and chia seeds thrown in. Ends up being about 30 g protein and 100g carbs - all complex.

[RockRaines]

My goal is to build muscle, lose fat and still have the energy to perform my job, which is high cardio/endurance. I don't want to necessarily bulk, but it's not easy for me to gain muscle while cycling so much. I also want the diet and workout to be sustainable. I'm trying to make a long term change.

 

I drink protein shakes post workout and not a 4:1 recovery drink because I have to go jump on the bike for hours after working out. Would it be more beneficial to drink a recovery drink instead?

Ultimately, I think I need to get a heart rate monitor to find out just how many calories I actually burn while cycling. Since my bike fitness level is high, it takes less effort to maintain speed as opposed to someone who rides less, so I assume.

IMO, yes. Frankly, chocolate milk may work for you.

 

 

ALso, I dont know about this "peeing" out protein BS I saw earlier. I s*** out spare protein, and its quite nasty.

[Steve9347]

IMO, yes. Frankly, chocolate milk may work for you.

 

 

ALso, I dont know about this "peeing" out protein BS I saw earlier. I s*** out spare protein, and its quite nasty.

Yeah, my spare protein normally leaves my body in the form of a stinky turd, too.

[Jake]

Inconclusive.

 

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/high-protein-diets/AN00847

 

While also inconclusive...let's just look at this logically. Too much of anything is ALWAYS bad for you. The fact that you can OD on water and die (has happened), should tell you that you can, in fact, intake too much protein.

 

I'll try to find the reference or article I'm thinking of... The way I recall is that a legitimately dangerous amount of protein would be near impossible to actually fit into your GI tract

 

IMO, yes. Frankly, chocolate milk may work for you.

 

 

ALso, I dont know about this "peeing" out protein BS I saw earlier. I s*** out spare protein, and its quite nasty.

 

 

[Jake]

Not super new references and one redundant one, but this source is a Ph.D who specializes in protein in the athlete's diet. He's also a pro natural bodybuilder, but that by no means makes you an authority. Posting from tablet so I'm not very prepared with references. The main point is that we have nothing to worry about with the amount of protein we might eat, even when we are pushing it past conservative recommendations.

 

http://www.biolayne.com/uncategorized/myth...in-diet-safety/

 

I also think that worrying about nutrient timing, particularly carbs and fats, is a waste of time unless you're doing endurance training (like a marathoner, not 30 minutes on an elliptical) or otherwise totally depleting glycogen. I might speculate that CrossFit and P90x training could deplete glycogen, fwiw.

[RockRaines]

Not super new references and one redundant one, but this source is a Ph.D who specializes in protein in the athlete's diet. He's also a pro natural bodybuilder, but that by no means makes you an authority. Posting from tablet so I'm not very prepared with references. The main point is that we have nothing to worry about with the amount of protein we might eat, even when we are pushing it past conservative recommendations.

 

http://www.biolayne.com/uncategorized/myth...in-diet-safety/

 

I also think that worrying about nutrient timing, particularly carbs and fats, is a waste of time unless you're doing endurance training (like a marathoner, not 30 minutes on an elliptical) or otherwise totally depleting glycogen. I might speculate that CrossFit and P90x training could deplete glycogen, fwiw.

Yes, some deplete more than others, like me.

[TaylorStSox]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

[ptatc]

IMO, yes. Frankly, chocolate milk may work for you.

 

 

ALso, I dont know about this "peeing" out protein BS I saw earlier. I s*** out spare protein, and its quite nasty.

After you workout hard and pee it can get brownish and smelly. This is some protein from muscle. However, ingested protein does get filtered in the kidneys this is why an excess can cause problems.

[ptatc]

Not super new references and one redundant one, but this source is a Ph.D who specializes in protein in the athlete's diet. He's also a pro natural bodybuilder, but that by no means makes you an authority. Posting from tablet so I'm not very prepared with references. The main point is that we have nothing to worry about with the amount of protein we might eat, even when we are pushing it past conservative recommendations.

 

http://www.biolayne.com/uncategorized/myth...in-diet-safety/

 

I also think that worrying about nutrient timing, particularly carbs and fats, is a waste of time unless you're doing endurance training (like a marathoner, not 30 minutes on an elliptical) or otherwise totally depleting glycogen. I might speculate that CrossFit and P90x training could deplete glycogen, fwiw.

I'm not necessarily saying that excess protein WILL cause kidney dysfunction However, it can be a contributing factor and alot of research shows this. This latest information isn't research but someone who has picked some articles that are old. The most recent is 8 years old. Another factor he states is the high level athlete. His examples are body builders and elite athletes who workout for a living. This is still the type of information that you need to be careful with. It's a person trying to promote an idea and doesn't have recent information.