Michael Young

[GREEDY]

Young sucks.... he would be out of baseball if he played anywhere but Texas.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Dont get me wrong, Young is an all star. And adding an All star to your team is a good thing, especially in the wake of a rookie who is slotted to take the position isnt really a cant miss prospect. I like Morel, but if the Sox can get Young for their price and you do it. It makes your team better. There are a couple big problems. There is no way the Sox would take on 3 Years and $48M for Young without the Rangers eating like half that salary. Also, the Rangers are said to want 1 top pitching prospect and 1 major league ready position player that can contribute right now. The sox may have a need or open slot for Young, but they dont have the package to offer the Rangers to acquire him.

 

Lmao. The Rangers, who have next to no leverage right now, are demanding that? For a declining 34-year old? They must plan on eating 47 of the $48 million. And Young has a limited no-trade clause anyway. That makes him even more difficult to unload.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Jordan4life

[Steve9347]

Oh man, Boers and Bernstein are showing their stupidity today by advocating a Young acquisition to play him at 3B.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Oh man, Boers and Bernstein are showing their stupidity today by advocating a Young acquisition to play him at 3B.

 

I expect that from Boers. Surprising that Berstein would be that retarded.

[joeynach]

Said by whom? That sounds insane, they already turned the guy into the league's most expensive DH/Super sub because they wanted a defensive upgrade.

 

Read that MLBtraderumors.com "Texas is looking for starting pitching and a position player who can help at the Major League level."

Edited February 9, 2011 by joeynach

[Jordan4life_2007]

Read that MLBtraderumors.com "Texas is looking for starting pitching and a position player who can help at the Major League level."

 

They can keep looking. They ain't gettin' s*** back. It's like a 400 pound slob turning down an average looking girl because he's holding out for Hally Berry.

[southsider2k5]

The only thing that Texas would want would be Danks back.

 

If you mean Jordan, you are correct. Anything to get out from under that contract.

[JorgeFabregas]

After reading this post I can not believe that Young makes $16M. Hes a solid player but $16M+ salaries are reserved for cant miss automatic all stars that bring something spectacular to the table (either offense or defense).

I believe a lot of people thought his contract was questionable when he signed it. He won a Gold Glove in 2008 despite the fact that he has never been a good defender. He signed his contract extension in January of 2009. A plus defender at SS with a good bat might be worth that much (although it was doubtful at his age), but it's the Rangers' fault for mistaking him for a plus defender.

[soxrwhite]

I can't believe the Rangers want some one to pay his salary and give them a starting pitcher and a position player. I gotta believe if they could just unload his salary they would take "a player to be named later."

As for the White Sox I would take Michael Young an all star over Brent Morel an unproven rook in a heart beat. If the Sox could dump Teahen and his salry maybe they could afford Young and let Morel play another year at AAA.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I can't believe the Rangers want some one to pay his salary and give them a starting pitcher and a position player. I gotta believe if they could just unload his salary they would take "a player to be named later."

As for the White Sox I would take Michael Young an all star over Brent Morel an unproven rook in a heart beat. If the Sox could dump Teahen and his salry maybe they could afford Young and let Morel play another year at AAA.

 

You think dumping Teahen's salary would be enough to offset what Young has due to him the next three years? I want no part of a declining Michael Young at his salary during his age 34-36 seasons. Brent Morel is one of the few legitimate prospects we have. I think we've gotten so used to KW trading the farm away to 'go for it' every year that it's become almost taboo to want to give a young guy a shot. And this coming from somebody who loathes are minor league system, along with the way we draft, scout, spend, ect.

Edited February 10, 2011 by Jordan4life

[joeynach]

You think dumping Teahen's salary would be enough to offset what Young has due to him the next three years? I want no part of a declining Michael Young at his salary during his age 34-36 seasons. Brent Morel is one of the few legitimate prospects we have. I think we've gotten so used to KW trading the farm away to 'go for it' every year that it's become almost taboo to want to give a young guy a shot. And this coming from somebody who loathes are minor league system, along with the way we draft, scout, spend, ect.

 

I hope that Morel can really excite some people and have a solid rookie campaign kinda like Beckham did. I actually have a gut feeling that Morel is going to be just fine, play good Defense and hit at something like a .260/.330/.410 clip. Its the white sox highly touted prospects that never work out and always disappoint, but this mid level expectation prospect may actually work out.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I hope that Morel can really excite some people and have a solid rookie campaign kinda like Beckham did. I actually have a gut feeling that Morel is going to be just fine, play good Defense and hit at something like a .260/.330/.410 clip. Its the white sox highly touted prospects that never work out and always disappoint, but this mid level expectation prospect may actually work out.

I agree and think Morel has a chance at ROY.

[Steve9347]

Now, just to play devil's advocate. Given the Rangers have turned this situation ugly by letting it get public, and now have an overpaid "superstar" who wants out, perhaps we leverage this to get rid of some of the extra fat.

 

If you could get rid of Teahen, and get half of the balance of Young's contract covered, would it be worth it?

 

16 mill

- 5 mill (Teahen)

- 5.5 mill (2011, 2012, 2013 - half of balance, savings of 20 million total to Rangers)

= Young @ 5.5 million.

 

Send them a couple of our B-list prospects so the Rangers save face, and you got yourself a stew goin'.

 

Or something. It's just an idea.

Edited February 10, 2011 by Steve9347

[witesoxfan]

Now, just to play devil's advocate. Given the Rangers have turned this situation ugly by letting it get public, and now have an overpaid "superstar" who wants out, perhaps we leverage this to get rid of some of the extra fat.

 

If you could get rid of Teahen, and get half of the balance of Young's contract covered, would it be worth it?

 

16 mill

- 5 mill (Teahen)

- 5.5 mill (2011, 2012, 2013 - half of balance, savings of 20 million total to Rangers)

= Young @ 5.5 million.

 

Send them a couple of our B-list prospects so the Rangers save face, and you got yourself a stew goin'.

 

Or something. It's just an idea.

 

No. Odds are very good that Michael Young is a bad player at the end of his contract, which ends in 2013, while the Sox could have Brent Morel at about $750k or so (or Beckham there with Escobar at 2B, or Viciedo there, or Eric Chavez there...all are cheaper). Meanwhile, the Sox owe Teahen approximately $10 million total over the next two years, but if he has a semi-good year this year, it's very possible that the Sox will be able to get out of $2-3 million of that contract after this season in a similar trade to the Linebrink deal. Meanwhile, the Sox would have had Young for another year beyond that.

 

Trading for Young would be trading just to trade. The Sox need to stay very, very, very far away.

[chw42]

No. Odds are very good that Michael Young is a bad player at the end of his contract, which ends in 2013, while the Sox could have Brent Morel at about $750k or so (or Beckham there with Escobar at 2B, or Viciedo there, or Eric Chavez there...all are cheaper). Meanwhile, the Sox owe Teahen approximately $10 million total over the next two years, but if he has a semi-good year this year, it's very possible that the Sox will be able to get out of $2-3 million of that contract after this season in a similar trade to the Linebrink deal. Meanwhile, the Sox would have had Young for another year beyond that.

 

Trading for Young would be trading just to trade. The Sox need to stay very, very, very far away.

 

If we go by normal regression for those over the age of 34 (which is an average of 0.7 WAR per season) and take next year's projections as his true talent level then...

Young's 2011 projections:

Marcel: 618 PA .335 wOBA

Bill James: 677 PA .344 wOBA

RotoChamp: 667 PA .352 wOBA

CAIRO: 680 PA .336 wOBA

FanGraphs Fans: 655 PA .341 wOBA

Aggregate: 659 PA .342 wOBA

 

Fan Projections have him at -5.1 for defense, CAIRO has him at -9. Let's meet somewhere in between and say -7.

 

Young projects out this way for 2011 if he were to play at U.S. Cellular Field, assuming league average wOBA of .323 and 4.45 runs per game.

Batting: 6.7

Fielding: -7

Replacement: 22

Positional: 2.3

RAR: 23.9

WAR: 2.5

Value: $11.1MM @ $4.5MM per win.

 

Assuming .7 WAR regression each season and 6% inflation of win value.

34 - 2.5 WAR ($11.1)

35 - 1.8 WAR ($8.6)

36 - 1.1 WAR ($6.7)

Total - 5.4 WAR ($26.4)

 

Young's being paid $48 million during that span of time, so there's a $21.6 million deficit. If you dump Teahen's contract of $10 million, that deficit is down to $11.6 million. Much more manageable. Plus, if you were to somehow get money back, that'd make it even better. You'd also have to consider an overpaid player producing is much, much, more valuable than an overpaid player giving you replacement level production (like Teahen).

 

Not saying that the Sox should go out and make this deal, but I don't think it would be a horrible Vernon Wells-like deal if a team were to pull it off.

Edited February 10, 2011 by chw42

[witesoxfan]

If we go by normal regression for those over the age of 34 (which is an average of 0.7 WAR per season) and take next year's projections as his true talent level then...

Young's 2011 projections:

Marcel: 618 PA .335 wOBA

Bill James: 677 PA .344 wOBA

RotoChamp: 667 PA .352 wOBA

CAIRO: 680 PA .336 wOBA

FanGraphs Fans: 655 PA .341 wOBA

Aggregate: 659 PA .342 wOBA

 

Fan Projections have him at -5.1 for defense, CAIRO has him at -9. Let's meet somewhere in between and say -7.

 

Young projects out this way for 2011 if he were to play at U.S. Cellular Field, assuming league average wOBA of .323 and 4.45 runs per game.

Batting: 6.7

Fielding: -7

Replacement: 22

Positional: 2.3

RAR: 23.9

WAR: 2.5

Value: $11.1MM @ $4.5MM per win.

 

Assuming .7 WAR regression each season and 6% inflation of win value.

34 - 2.5 WAR ($11.1)

35 - 1.8 WAR ($8.6)

36 - 1.1 WAR ($6.7)

Total - 5.4 WAR ($26.4)

 

Young's being paid $48 million during that span of time, so there's a $21.6 million deficit. If you dump Teahen's contract of $10 million, that deficit is down to $11.6 million. Much more manageable. Plus, if you were to somehow get money back, that'd make it even better. You'd have to consider an overpaid player producing is much, much, more valuable than an overpaid player giving you replacement level production (like Teahen).

 

Not saying that the Sox should go out and make this deal, but I don't think it would be a horrible Vernon Wells-like deal if a team were to pull it off.

 

(this will be a little rough and perhaps illogical in some spots, so bear with me)

 

No, but the side that this is missing is the production of Morel. James projects Morel as a .291/.327/.448 hitter, Marcel at .261/.325/.422. For argument's sake, I'll meet them in the middle, though I won't expect Morel to put up that kind of line (I expect him to hit less than James' projection and to also draw fewer walks, so basically I think the OBP is actually right on). So we'll say a line of .270/.325/.425. Brennan Boesch put up a .256/.320/.416 line for the Tigers this past year and that was worth 0.4, so I think assuming a 0.5 batting rating is fair.

 

By all accounts, Morel is a good fielder. For this exercise, I'm going to assume that he has some adjustment this year and that his defense is only average, so I am going to assume a 0 UZR. It could realistically be much better than that.

 

I will also assuming slightly smaller positional and replacement figures due to the presence of Vizquel. For simplicity's sake, we'll say 2 and 18 respectively.

 

Overall, that leaves him at about 25 RAR, so worth about 2.5 WAR. Perhaps that is high, perhaps low, but I personally think that's a pretty safe number, which leaves Morel and Young as pretty equal players, so it will be worth the same $11.1 mill.

 

Then, assuming slight progress over the next 3 years, and still assuming the 6% inflation, we are left with something along the lines of

 

2011 - 2.5 WAR ($11.1)

2012 - 2.9 WAR ($13.7)

2013 - 3.5 WAR ($17.5)

 

all the while Morel is making the virtual league minimum, though I think he will end up being Super-2 eligible, so probably a grand total of about $2 mill. Still, that is $40 million in surplus value.

 

I'm quite sure that it won't play out exactly like this, but even if Morel gives half the production, you are still looking at huge surplus value from him.

 

On top of that, it's not figuring what production you will get from Teahen too. There will be some on here who are not opposed to moving Teahen because he's the scapegoat, but I do think he can be a good player off the bench for the Sox and worth anywhere from 0.5-1 WAR, especially if he is utilized properly (never, never, never playing 3B and playing only against RHP). If the Sox lose Teahen, they are stuck with De Aza, Lillibridge, Milledge, Gartrell, or Danks, and to me, those are not appealing options.

 

It just doesn't make sense to trade for Michael Young.

 

 

[chw42]

(this will be a little rough and perhaps illogical in some spots, so bear with me)

 

No, but the side that this is missing is the production of Morel. James projects Morel as a .291/.327/.448 hitter, Marcel at .261/.325/.422. For argument's sake, I'll meet them in the middle, though I won't expect Morel to put up that kind of line (I expect him to hit less than James' projection and to also draw fewer walks, so basically I think the OBP is actually right on). So we'll say a line of .270/.325/.425. Brennan Boesch put up a .256/.320/.416 line for the Tigers this past year and that was worth 0.4, so I think assuming a 0.5 batting rating is fair.

 

By all accounts, Morel is a good fielder. For this exercise, I'm going to assume that he has some adjustment this year and that his defense is only average, so I am going to assume a 0 UZR. It could realistically be much better than that.

 

I will also assuming slightly smaller positional and replacement figures due to the presence of Vizquel. For simplicity's sake, we'll say 2 and 18 respectively.

 

Overall, that leaves him at about 25 RAR, so worth about 2.5 WAR. Perhaps that is high, perhaps low, but I personally think that's a pretty safe number, which leaves Morel and Young as pretty equal players, so it will be worth the same $11.1 mill.

 

Then, assuming slight progress over the next 3 years, and still assuming the 6% inflation, we are left with something along the lines of

 

2011 - 2.5 WAR ($11.1)

2012 - 2.9 WAR ($13.7)

2013 - 3.5 WAR ($17.5)

 

all the while Morel is making the virtual league minimum, though I think he will end up being Super-2 eligible, so probably a grand total of about $2 mill. Still, that is $40 million in surplus value.

 

I'm quite sure that it won't play out exactly like this, but even if Morel gives half the production, you are still looking at huge surplus value from him.

 

On top of that, it's not figuring what production you will get from Teahen too. There will be some on here who are not opposed to moving Teahen because he's the scapegoat, but I do think he can be a good player off the bench for the Sox and worth anywhere from 0.5-1 WAR, especially if he is utilized properly (never, never, never playing 3B and playing only against RHP). If the Sox lose Teahen, they are stuck with De Aza, Lillibridge, Milledge, Gartrell, or Danks, and to me, those are not appealing options.

 

It just doesn't make sense to trade for Michael Young.

 

I know it doesn't make sense for the Sox to go trade for Young. We have no room for him, especially if Morel turns out to be as good as I think he will be on both sides of the ball.

 

But there's always the aspect of Young being more of a sure thing, even if he's overpaid. I was just pointing out that if this trade were to happen (for the Sox or any team) and the team receiving Young dumps a bad player and also gets some salary relief in return, then I'd say it's a fair deal.

[Balta1701]

But there's always the aspect of Young being more of a sure thing, even if he's overpaid. I was just pointing out that if this trade were to happen (for the Sox or any team) and the team receiving Young dumps a bad player and also gets some salary relief in return, then I'd say it's a fair deal.

The real fact is...the Sox really don't have *That* bad of a contract that they'd be interested in dumping...except for Jake Peavy...and the team's shown no interest in dumping him. This isn't Jose Contreras 2007, at least not yet. Dumping Teahen gives savings that everyone has to admit are small at best.

[chw42]

The real fact is...the Sox really don't have *That* bad of a contract that they'd be interested in dumping...except for Jake Peavy...and the team's shown no interest in dumping him. This isn't Jose Contreras 2007, at least not yet. Dumping Teahen gives savings that everyone has to admit are small at best.

 

I really doubt Teahen is going to produce at all these next two years. So that's like saving $10 million right there.

[Jerksticks]

I've enjoyed reading this discussion for nostalgic reasons. This might actually be the last Michael Young thread ever posted on here. Soak it up.

[southsider2k5]

Now, just to play devil's advocate. Given the Rangers have turned this situation ugly by letting it get public, and now have an overpaid "superstar" who wants out, perhaps we leverage this to get rid of some of the extra fat.

 

If you could get rid of Teahen, and get half of the balance of Young's contract covered, would it be worth it?

 

16 mill

- 5 mill (Teahen)

- 5.5 mill (2011, 2012, 2013 - half of balance, savings of 20 million total to Rangers)

= Young @ 5.5 million.

 

Send them a couple of our B-list prospects so the Rangers save face, and you got yourself a stew goin'.

 

Or something. It's just an idea.

 

I could get behind that. His 200 hits would look really nice behind Pierre, and it front of Dunn/Konerko

[Jerksticks]

I could get behind that. His 200 hits would look really nice behind Pierre, and it front of Dunn/Konerko

 

Sure would take some pressure off Bacon. I think Bacon becomes that 200 hit guy eventually. What about the D at 3rd though; f*** it? Young's still got a few years, what happens to Brent?

 

Those 200 hits sound nice but developing Morel seems pretty cost-effective and he's hit at every level.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Sure would take some pressure off Bacon. I think Bacon becomes that 200 hit guy eventually. What about the D at 3rd though; f*** it? Young's still got a few years, what happens to Brent?

 

Those 200 hits sound nice but developing Morel seems pretty cost-effective and he's hit at every level.

 

You could even use Young in the Super Utility/starting 3B role. Let Morel start over there when Young gives Beckham, Ramirez, or even Konerko a day off at first. Also use Brent late as a D sub.

[Balta1701]

You could even use Young in the Super Utility/starting 3B role. Let Morel start over there when Young gives Beckham, Ramirez, or even Konerko a day off at first. Also use Brent late as a D sub.

Problem is...the Super-Utility role is why he requested a trade in the first place.

 

Also, if you give Ozzie a rookie and a veteran, when's the rookie ever going to get at bats?

[southsider2k5]

Problem is...the Super-Utility role is why he requested a trade in the first place.

 

Also, if you give Ozzie a rookie and a veteran, when's the rookie ever going to get at bats?

 

He didn't have a starting position in Texas. Here he would.