Buehrle vs. Vick

[RockRaines]

You and I will likely never know the answer to that question. All we do know is that he has been rehabilitated after serving his sentence.

Rehabilitated to never be caught doing a crime again that takes away his paper. Anyone that can torture dogs like that has something inside of them that will never be fixed no matter how much time he spends in jail. I am very confident that the guy really doesnt feel bad for the dogs, but feels really bad that he committed a crime and was caught.

[BigSqwert]

Rehabilitated to never be caught doing a crime again that takes away his paper. Anyone that can torture dogs like that has something inside of them that will never be fixed no matter how much time he spends in jail. I am very confident that the guy really doesnt feel bad for the dogs, but feels really bad that he committed a crime and was caught.

 

You seem to be implying that he may even continue to do these things but be more careful about it so that he's not caught again.

[hogan873]

He's no longer fighting dogs. And isn't he doing a lot of animal related charity work now? When can he be forgiven?

I assume you are being sarcastic. I don't know if he can ever truly be forgiven. There are plenty of people out there that won't.

[Texsox]

Rehabilitated to never be caught doing a crime again that takes away his paper. Anyone that can torture dogs like that has something inside of them that will never be fixed no matter how much time he spends in jail. I am very confident that the guy really doesnt feel bad for the dogs, but feels really bad that he committed a crime and was caught.

 

 

I'm not quite as pesimisstic as you, but it is easier to always think the worse.

 

And I have more respect for meat eaters who have killed their own meat than meat eaters who are anti-hunting.

[zenryan]

I think Vick is a POS but if he is truly sorry, actually becomes a better person and makes the necessary changes in his life then I hope he does well.

 

 

Vick owes a lot of people money so I dont want to see him injured and unable to pay those people back. But I wont lie and say I wasnt hoping he'd play horribly in his return.

[BigSqwert]

I assume you are being sarcastic.

 

Not at all.

[RockRaines]

You seem to be implying that he may even continue to do these things but be more careful about it so that he's not caught again.

Maybe not because he was caught and his money was taken away, but I think most of his remorse is from committing an act that sent him to jail, not the act itself.

 

And people who torture animals in that fashion are not right IMO, and alot of serial killers start out by choosing that very activity. Im not saying Vick is going to be a serial killer, but something is seriously wrong with people who can do that.

[lasttriptotulsa]

This whole subject and thread is hilarious to me, for one simple reason. Mark Buehrle is an "outdoorsman" in that he hunts. He dresses up in camo and sits in a tree with a rifle waiting for deer to shoot. He kills defenseless animals for sport. How this is any different than Michael Vick killing a dog is beyond me.

 

Buehrle should STFU and stick to what he's good at, throwing baseballs.

 

You really don't see a difference between torturing dogs and getting entertained by their torture, and shooting an animal with a high power weapon that kills it almost instantly. I am an avid hunter, but I agree with Buehrle 100%, Vick deserved what he got and should have gotten a whole lot worse.

 

And everyone talking about these factory farms, yes they are horrible the way they slaughter and treat animals, but the whole world is not like this. There are plenty of places to buy meat products from that the animal was killed humanely and never suffered. Take my buddies farm for instance. They have hundreds of acres of pasture where their steer can graze all day long until its time for them to be butchered. When this time comes they are taken to a locker plant, where there are shot directly through the skull, killing them instantly. They do not suffer in any way.

 

There is nothing wrong with hunting as long as its done humanely, which is why there are many many laws in place to regulate it. When hunting larger game, there are even laws regulating the caliber of gun you use. You can not legally use a caliber of gun that is too small to humanely kill the animal. What Vick did and what Buehrle and millions of others do are not even remotely similar. Remember human beings are the ultimate apex predator, noone has a problem with a Killer Whale killing a defenseless Seal, or a Lion killing a poor little Gazelle. Its only the manner in which you do that it can become a problem. But I guess if you people view Buehrle as a hypocrite because of it, then I guess I'm a hypocrite too.

[BigSqwert]

There are plenty of places to buy meat products from that the animal was killed humanely and never suffered.

 

You honestly think there are enough places like that to sustain the 6 billion people on Earth? It's not remotely possible to feed people meat and dairy from farms like the one you described. I'd guess those specific animal products account for less than 1% of all animal products produced for consumption.

Edited February 10, 2011 by BigSqwert

[Rowand44]

Mark is awesome, Vick is a piece of s***. The end.

[Texsox]

You honestly think there are enough places like that to sustain the 6 billion people on Earth? It's not remotely possible to feed people meat and dairy from farms like the one you described. I'd guess those specific animal products account for less than 1% of all animal products produced for consumption.

 

 

I assume you mean there is not enough land mass to sustain that many head of cattle, roaming free?

[Milkman delivers]

You honestly think there are enough places like that to sustain the 6 billion people on Earth? It's not remotely possible to feed people meat and dairy from farms like the one you described. I'd guess those specific animal products account for less than 1% of all animal products produced for consumption.

 

And your suggestion?

[BigSqwert]

I assume you mean there is not enough land mass to sustain that many head of cattle, roaming free?

Yes. It is literally impossible to get rid of factory farms and switch to all free range meat if people are going to consume the same amount of animal products.

[BigSqwert]

And your suggestion?

You already know it and probably don't want to hear it.

[lasttriptotulsa]

You honestly think there are enough places like that to sustain the 6 billion people on Earth? It's not remotely possible to feed people meat and dairy from farms like the one you described. I'd guess those specific animal products accounts for less than 1% of all animal products produced for consumption.

 

You are 100% correct. Places like that are a very small minority, and that is why it's up to the consumer to be willing to buy from these places whenever possible. Sure you might pay a little more, but to me its worth that extra little cost. Factory farming is a huge problem and the way the world is today, its impossible to only buy from these types of folks. There are great organizations out there that are trying to end factory farming and bring farming back to the small town, family farmer. One of these is Farm-Aid.

[Milkman delivers]

You already know it and probably don't want to hear it.

 

You think everyone on Earth should go vegan?

[Soxbadger]

I guess I'm a hypocrite too.

 

Quoted for the truth.

 

Like I said before, if Im given the choice between being tortured to death or being shot to death, Im going to take the none of the above option. The entire idea of humane killing is nothing more than a human invention to try and make us feel better about the simple fact that murder is murder, death is death.

 

I have no problem with a killer whale killing to survive, but then again Im pretty sure that killer whales need to kill to survive. Lion is a horrible comparison as they are a strict carnivore which means that they need meat to survive (if we really want to get all biological.)

 

I also have no problem with a human trying to kill an animal with its bare hands. Even if you want to go out in a group of 5 and try and run down a bear Id consider that even. But to compare using technology to an animal in the wild is absurd.

 

So to you there is nothing wrong with hunting, but to many others there is. I think there are situations where Id be fine with hunting, but none of them involve the public at large being able to kill with a license. They would all involve trained sharpshooters being accompanied by wildlife specialists to make sure that the weakest/diseased are being killed before the strongest/best looking.

 

Because if we are doing this for environmental concerns, than we should really put the environment first, not how many points there are on the buck.

 

Ive unfortunately watched a few of those hunter shows on tv, not once have I ever heard them say "Oh that deer is sickly we should kill it to improve herd strength." I have seen them brag about hunting the biggest/strongest deer for 3 years and finally getting it to mount on their wall.

 

Between dog fighting and hunting, which is more sadistic and cruel?

 

Im not going to judge, but Im sure there are people who would say both.

[BigSqwert]

You think everyone on Earth should go vegan?

I'd personally love that but admit it's highly unlikely (BTW, it's really not that hard to do. I was a meat eater most of my life). A great start would be to substantially reduce animal products from your diet. It's better for your health and the environment.

[Milkman delivers]

I'd personally love that but admit it's highly unlikely (BTW, it's really not that hard to do. I was a meat eater most of my life). A great start would be to substantially reduce animal products from your diet. It's better for your health and the environment.

 

I understand the desire for some people to go vegan, and I'm sure it can be great for your health. But, don't you think it would cause enormous problems throughout the world if nobody ate meat anymore?

[Rowand44]

A great start would be to substantially reduce animal products from your diet.

And let me speak for most of the population when I say f*** that.

[BigSqwert]

I understand the desire for some people to go vegan, and I'm sure it can be great for your health. But, don't you think it would cause enormous problems throughout the world if nobody ate meat anymore?

For instance?

[Rowand44]

Like I said before, if Im given the choice between being tortured to death or being shot to death, Im going to take the none of the above option. The entire idea of humane killing is nothing more than a human invention to try and make us feel better about the simple fact that murder is murder, death is death.

That's pretty crazy. I've never hunted in my life and never intend to but there's certainly a difference between being tortured and just dying quickly. Huge difference.

[BigSqwert]

That's pretty crazy. I've never hunted in my life and never intend to but there's certainly a difference between being tortured and just dying quickly. Huge difference.

There are a lot of people, including myself, that disagree.

[Milkman delivers]

Quoted for the truth.

 

Like I said before, if Im given the choice between being tortured to death or being shot to death, Im going to take the none of the above option. The entire idea of humane killing is nothing more than a human invention to try and make us feel better about the simple fact that murder is murder, death is death.

 

I have no problem with a killer whale killing to survive, but then again Im pretty sure that killer whales need to kill to survive. Lion is a horrible comparison as they are a strict carnivore which means that they need meat to survive (if we really want to get all biological.)

 

I also have no problem with a human trying to kill an animal with its bare hands. Even if you want to go out in a group of 5 and try and run down a bear Id consider that even. But to compare using technology to an animal in the wild is absurd.

 

So to you there is nothing wrong with hunting, but to many others there is. I think there are situations where Id be fine with hunting, but none of them involve the public at large being able to kill with a license. They would all involve trained sharpshooters being accompanied by wildlife specialists to make sure that the weakest/diseased are being killed before the strongest/best looking.

 

Because if we are doing this for environmental concerns, than we should really put the environment first, not how many points there are on the buck.

 

Ive unfortunately watched a few of those hunter shows on tv, not once have I ever heard them say "Oh that deer is sickly we should kill it to improve herd strength." I have seen them brag about hunting the biggest/strongest deer for 3 years and finally getting it to mount on their wall.

 

Between dog fighting and hunting, which is more sadistic and cruel?

 

Im not going to judge, but Im sure there are people who would say both.

 

We are just about the only species on Earth with that option, as we are an apex predator. If there were a species above us on the food chain, you wouldn't have the choice to say "none of the above," and you'd definitely prefer to be taken down cleanly instead of forced to battle another person to the death before eventually being put down by being electrocuted by a car battery, drowned in a bucket of water, or slammed into the concrete repeatedly.

[Milkman delivers]

For instance?

 

I have to imagine that other species' numbers would grow to enormous proportions and crowd into each other/cause starvation for them/push into human populations.