witesoxfan Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 13, 2011 -> 12:39 PM) Pointing it out to me is one thing...pointing it out to the guy making the lineups is another. He played 10 games in RF, 10 games at DH, and 3 games at 1B last year, and all of that was after he came back from injury. I don't think he played much 3B at all. Ozzie is more than willing to put him in the outfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 13, 2011 -> 01:42 PM) He played 10 games in RF, 10 games at DH, and 3 games at 1B last year, and all of that was after he came back from injury. I don't think he played much 3B at all. Ozzie is more than willing to put him in the outfield. Now wait a second...he may have played "3 games" at 1b, but he only played 8 innings there. He may have played 10 games in RF, but only 77 innings. So those games at 1b were mostly short stints, probably in blowouts, when Ozzie moved him there or put him in to give Konerko a break. And when he was playing in the OF, Ozzie didn't give him a full game. And almost all of those games in RF were after September 12, when the season was effectively over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 "I know he was a starter in college," Guillen said. "But I already saw him in the big leagues last year in the bullpen, and I loved it." :crying :crying f*** f*** f*** f*** f*** f*** f*** f***! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I understand the organization's thinking here, but i'd hate to see Sale pigeonholed as a reliever. I'm hoping that putting him in the bullpen for year (and i think he will be for the duration of the year) isn't a permanent thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Feb 13, 2011 -> 02:07 PM) I understand the organization's thinking here, but i'd hate to see Sale pigeonholed as a reliever. I'm hoping that putting him in the bullpen for year (and i think he will be for the duration of the year) isn't a permanent thing. He'll be tried out as a starter eventually, I wouldn't worry too much about that. The best thing for the team this year is for Sale to be in the bullpen so that's what the Sox are doing, next year is a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Feb 13, 2011 -> 01:58 PM) "I know he was a starter in college," Guillen said. "But I already saw him in the big leagues last year in the bullpen, and I loved it." :crying :crying f*** f*** f*** f*** f*** f*** f*** f***! I don't why you're so upset over Guillen making the right decision here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Feb 13, 2011 -> 02:09 PM) He'll be tried out as a starter eventually, I wouldn't worry too much about that. The best thing for the team this year is for Sale to be in the bullpen so that's what the Sox are doing, next year is a different story. You gotta worry about it...because going from 70 innings this year to 150 next year could be murder on his arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 13, 2011 -> 12:30 PM) The other side of it though...if Vizquel ever retires, he's a solid, cheap, 2-3 year option as a backup utility infielder who can cover all 3 positions and backup CF as well...and his competition is De Aza and Milledge, which means there's not exactly anything likely to look amazing that he's blocking. The other side of it is Lillibridge is soon to be 27 and finding someone who can do what he does, only better, shouldn't be a hard task. He's brutal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 13, 2011 -> 01:33 PM) You gotta worry about it...because going from 70 innings this year to 150 next year could be murder on his arm. His innings have been going up for the last 3 years. If its a problem, he's already screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 13, 2011 -> 12:38 PM) Mark Teahen is more than capable of playing LF and RF off the bench. I've pointed this out to you. Lillibridge is more than capable in CF, which I think is a well understood point. Wasn't the big argument against anyone who said Teahen wasn't very good coming into last season, "yes, but that's because they had him playing all over the field. Here, he'll be in one place, 3b." He is a horrible defensive player, no matter where you put him. Lillibridge has looked decent in the OF, but he has only 100 innings under his belt in the major leagues at that position. He also hits like a pitcher, so I don't know if capable is the proper term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 13, 2011 -> 03:01 PM) His innings have been going up for the last 3 years. If its a problem, he's already screwed. Come on man, you know better than this. It's not that they're going up, it's that they're going to go dramatically down this year, before going dramatically back up next year. That's a much different beast from the fact that his innings have been going up the last few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 13, 2011 -> 02:16 PM) Come on man, you know better than this. It's not that they're going up, it's that they're going to go dramatically down this year, before going dramatically back up next year. That's a much different beast from the fact that his innings have been going up the last few years. Not really. He's preparing as he's going to be a starter. He'll be doing a lot of throwing this year. It will just be for 6 months that his routine will be altered. It was altered 3 or 4 months last year. Guys take seasons off often and come back fine. If Sale gets injured, while some on message boards will find it convenient to blame his becoming a reliever, its his mechanics that will concern the professionals. Its not like he'll suddenly stop throwing. 60 IP relieving doesn't equal 60 IP as a starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Feb 13, 2011 -> 02:09 PM) He'll be tried out as a starter eventually, I wouldn't worry too much about that. The best thing for the team this year is for Sale to be in the bullpen so that's what the Sox are doing, next year is a different story. I hope so. I agree that Sale being in the pen this year is absolutely what's best for the team. He has the poise, the stuff, and Peavy's accelerated recovery makes this less of a problem then it ever was. i don't think that'll be true in the near future, but for now we're all in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Due to the fact that Peavy is only at 60-70%- who knows how long it will take before he gets the okay to pitch from the doctors and staff. Im predicting Peavy will be back around early-to-mid June. He'll need to make about 2-3 starts down in Charlotte before the call up as well. With that being said, we need to sign a veteran free agent to a minor league deal and hope it works out. We just dont have the depth down in the farm to plug in a guy. And Ozzie himself said he wants Sale in the pen in 2011. A four man rotation may sound okay at first- but it can end up costing us later on as the relievers need to stay fresh. Here is a guy we should seriously consider: * Jeremy Bonderman- I know he isn't the 2006-07 Bonderman anymore- but as a 5th starter and some spring training tweaking- we may catch lightning in a bottle here. I liked the way he was throwing the ball late in the year as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 13, 2011 -> 12:31 PM) Pitchers feel strong in April? I've heard lots more complaints about how they're just getting over their late-spring dead-arm periods in april. They are over their dead arm period. Spring training is 6 weeks for fans and pitchers. They wouldn't start the season with dead arms. If the majority of pitchers had dead arms or were still fighting them, the length of spring training and the pitcher's workouts would be altered. Ask anyone associated with MLB and they will tell you at the beginning of the season, pitchers are ahead of hitters, especially if the weather isn't ideal. Edited February 13, 2011 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Feb 13, 2011 -> 02:32 PM) I don't why you're so upset over Guillen making the right decision here. Not even going to get into this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 13, 2011 -> 04:12 PM) They are over their dead arm period. Spring training is 6 weeks for fans and pitchers. They wouldn't start the season with dead arms. If the majority of pitchers had dead arms or were still fighting them, the length of spring training and the pitcher's workouts would be altered. Ask anyone associated with MLB and they will tell you at the beginning of the season, pitchers are ahead of hitters, especially if the weather isn't ideal. Of course, rather than stating anecdotes, some might want to apply data to the question. League OPS by month. April: .736 May: .731 June: .733 July: .736 August: .723 Sept: .714 Regardless of what they might say...there's zero evidence of "pitchers being ahead of hitters" in April/May last year, and reasonable evidence that the claim is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Feb 13, 2011 -> 04:33 PM) Here is a guy we should seriously consider: * Jeremy Bonderman- I know he isn't the 2006-07 Bonderman anymore- but as a 5th starter and some spring training tweaking- we may catch lightning in a bottle here. I liked the way he was throwing the ball late in the year as well. Unless you sign Bonderman to a Minor league contract, I would stay far away from him. His velocity has dipped big time, and his secondary stuff is very shaky, it'll be brilliant in bullpen sessions and spring training than get hammered in games. He has physical and mental problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 13, 2011 -> 03:25 PM) Of course, rather than stating anecdotes, some might want to apply data to the question. League OPS by month. April: .736 May: .731 June: .733 July: .736 August: .723 Sept: .714 Regardless of what they might say...there's zero evidence of "pitchers being ahead of hitters" in April/May last year, and reasonable evidence that the claim is wrong. Exactly where is the evidence the majority of pitchers have dead arms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 13, 2011 -> 04:34 PM) Exactly where is the evidence the majority of pitchers have dead arms? The fact that April had the highest average OPS out of any month last season (despite the usual complaints about April weather), and the OPS's went down at the end of the season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 13, 2011 -> 03:36 PM) The fact that April had the highest average OPS out of any month last season (despite the usual complaints about April weather), and the OPS's went down at the end of the season? That was 2010. I suppose you didn't look at other seasons like 2007 and 2008 when the league OPS in April was 20 points lower than the overall. How do you explain that? If Phil Humber has to start a game or games for the White Sox, I think most people would rather he start them in April than in September assuming the Sox are in contention and hope its a 38 degree night. Edited February 13, 2011 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 13, 2011 -> 04:41 PM) That was 2010. I suppose you didn't look at other seasons like 2007 and 2008 when the league OPS in April was 20 points lower than the overall. How do you explain that? 2009 April .760 May .750 June .733 July .748 Aug .769 Sept. .741 Once again...April in 2009, 2nd worst month for pitching. Only month worse was August. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxrwhite Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I think with Sale's motion he is bullpen guy all the way. The problem I see with the four man rotation is can we count on Peavey to be reliable by 5/1? We can't go four man too long but I still think a four man through April will be ok. Hell Cleveland could be snowed out for the first series. The main problem here is Peavey. What if he only gets a few starts in May or June and then down again? The Sox need a fifth starter just in case. I guess Harrell is the guy as of now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxrwhite Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Is Millwood still available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 13, 2011 -> 03:46 PM) 2009 April .760 May .750 June .733 July .748 Aug .769 Sept. .741 Once again...April in 2009, 2nd worst month for pitching. Only month worse was August. If 2007 and 2008 show the same thing I will apologize and call that ample proof April is the month you want to hit in. By the way have you ever played baseball? I don't know of anyone that would rather hit when its 40 degrees vs. 80 degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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