2011 Cubs Thread

[dpd9189]

"Hungry"?

 

And I'll give you a choice...worse FO clusterf***...Boston and their $100 million in Adam Dunn quality contracts, or the Cubs'? Death is not an option.

 

 

You can hate all you want but I wish JR would do something similar by canning KW and get some guys in our FO that know what the hell they're doing. Our farm system is bad, our drafting has sucked, we're now one of the many teams with awful contracts. I don't get how Sox fans are ok with what's going on with us but then can bash the Cubs by doing the right thing in cleaning house and starting over.

 

 

[Balta1701]

You can hate all you want but I wish JR would do something similar by canning KW and get some guys in our FO that know what the hell they're doing. Our farm system is bad, our drafting has sucked, we're now one of the many teams with awful contracts. I don't get how Sox fans are ok with what's going on with us but then can bash the Cubs by doing the right thing in cleaning house and starting over.

Yeah...Chairman Reinsdorf needs to clean up the front office and get people in there who know what they're doing. His GM has traded away everyone with talent, not drafted well the last few years, and saddled his team with enormous failed contracts on pitchers and hitters who don't do anything.

 

You know whose example he should follow? Boston.

[dpd9189]

Yeah...Chairman Reinsdorf needs to clean up the front office and get people in there who know what they're doing. His GM has traded away everyone with talent, not drafted well the last few years, and saddled his team with enormous failed contracts on pitchers and hitters who don't do anything.

 

You know whose example he should follow? Boston.

 

Yeah God forbid we'd have drafted Hanley Ramirez, Anabel Sanchez, Pedroia, Elsbury, Papelbon, Lowrie, Lester, Buckholz, and Bard. You can piss on the Lackey and JD Drew signings all you want, they have 1 more ring then us in the last 7 years and are constantly winning 90 games and giving themselves a chance to win the WS year after year while we're finishing behind Cleveland and trading Gio Gonzalez for Nick Swisher.

[Balta1701]

Yeah God forbid we'd have drafted Hanley Ramirez, Anabel Sanchez, Pedroia, Elsbury, Papelbon, Lowrie, Lester, Buckholz, and Bard. You can piss on the Lackey and JD Drew signings all you want, they have 1 more ring then us in the last 7 years and are constantly winning 90 games and giving themselves a chance to win the WS year after year while we're finishing behind Cleveland and trading Gio Gonzalez for Nick Swisher.

ANibal Sanchez, signed by the Red Sox in 2001. Hanley Ramirez, signed by the Red Sox in 2000. Jon Lester, drafted by the Red Sox in summer 2002.

 

Know what they all have in common? They were all in the Red Sox organization before Theo.

 

And it's impressive that you left the Carl Crawford deal off there. And hell, Buchholz and Lester and Papelbon sure didn't play up to their contracts this year. And then Jenks.

[dpd9189]

ANibal Sanchez, signed by the Red Sox in 2001. Hanley Ramirez, signed by the Red Sox in 2000. Jon Lester, drafted by the Red Sox in summer 2002.

 

Know what they all have in common? They were all in the Red Sox organization before Theo.

 

And it's impressive that you left the Carl Crawford deal off there.

 

Fine put Crawford on there. I'd still rather have Boston's team and overall organization than ours. Both teams are stuck with some bad paper but the players that Boston has drafted/developed and traded for under Theo's tenure there are much much better then anyone we've drafted/developed in that same time frame. You can't argue that.

[Marty34]

Fine put Crawford on there. I'd still rather have Boston's team and overall organization than ours. Both teams are stuck with some bad paper but the players that Boston has drafted/developed and traded for under Theo's tenure there are much much better then anyone we've drafted/developed in that same time frame. You can't argue that.

 

Kenny has been one of the worst GM's over the last three years. Theo bailed because things were heading down that same road for him with the Red Sox.

[Dick Allen]

ANibal Sanchez, signed by the Red Sox in 2001. Hanley Ramirez, signed by the Red Sox in 2000. Jon Lester, drafted by the Red Sox in summer 2002.

 

Know what they all have in common? They were all in the Red Sox organization before Theo.

 

And it's impressive that you left the Carl Crawford deal off there. And hell, Buchholz and Lester and Papelbon sure didn't play up to their contracts this year. And then Jenks.

A lot of White Sox fans are funny. Ventura is a bad hire because he has no experience. Dave Martinez would have been great because he stands next to Joe Maddon during games. The Cubs hire Theo, a guy with "experience", 2 WS rings averaging around 93 wins a year, and its a bad hire, or at best a neutral one that won't make any difference. Theo is overrated, he had a high payroll.

He signed Carl Crawford. I bet if KW signed Carl Crawford last winter most here would have been doing cartwheels. For all of Theo's mistakes, his teams still won. This is the Cubs best hire probably in our lifetimes. He will have advantages in the NL Central he didn't have in the AL East.

[Balta1701]

He signed Carl Crawford. I bet if KW signed Carl Crawford last winter most here would have been doing cartwheels. For all of Theo's mistakes, his teams still won. This is the Cubs best hire probably in our lifetimes. He will have advantages in the NL Central he didn't have in the AL East.

For $140 million? I'd have been angrier than I was when the Hudson deal went down.

 

Maybe I'd have done cartwheels of anger. Otherwise, no one would have been happy with that deal.

 

And he's also lost his biggest advantage...the money.

 

For 8 years...he's had everyone he talked to in trades knowing that if they didn't trade with Boston, they were a year away from losing their player to Boston as a free agent anyway. And if he blew $15 milion on a failure, he could just spend $30 million the next year to fix it. He has none of those advantages any more.

 

And he also no longer has Hoyer to help him out by sending him all-stars for below market value.

[Dick Allen]

For $140 million? I'd have been angrier than I was when the Hudson deal went down.

 

Maybe I'd have done cartwheels of anger. Otherwise, no one would have been happy with that deal.

 

And he's also lost his biggest advantage...the money.

 

For 8 years...he's had everyone he talked to in trades knowing that if they didn't trade with Boston, they were a year away from losing their player to Boston as a free agent anyway. And if he blew $15 milion on a failure, he could just spend $30 million the next year to fix it. He has none of those advantages any more.

 

And he also no longer has Hoyer to help him out by sending him all-stars for below market value.

You're talking about his biggest advantage, the money, without thinking about it. He still will have the highest payroll in his division, something he has NEVER had before, I think you have totally forgotten about the Yankees, and also if all his high priced signings were busts, he other moves must be golden. He never used the excuse drafting late was a good reason to have a s***ty farm system.

 

That division is not a bad place to be. The Cardinals got real lucky squeaking into the playoffs and if they re-sign Pujols, which I would presume, that's going to take a huge chunk of their payroll for the forseeable future. The Brewers will probably lose Fielder. Theo's in a nice spot. I don't think a Cubs re-build would take very long as long as people come to the park, and I think this move pretty much guarantees it.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

You're talking about his biggest advantage, the money, without thinking about it. He still will have the highest payroll in his division, something he has NEVER had before, I think you have totally forgotten about the Yankees, and also if all his high priced signings were busts, he other moves must be golden. He never used the excuse drafting late was a good reason to have a s***ty farm system.

But there's no obvious reason why that team must have the highest payroll in that division...they can sell the average seats in their ballpark at a high price, but compared to St. Louis or Houston...they have a 2nd team to compete with, and they have no advantage like luxury boxes or a modern stadium.

 

At best, he goes from a case where he's the #2 spending team in the league to a case where he's the #3 spending team in the league, except with a 35% lower total salary and very little room for revenue expansion, along with the likelihood of revenue contraction having happened this year.

 

$150-175 million buys you a lot more mistakes than $100-$120 million.

[Dick Allen]

But there's no obvious reason why that team must have the highest payroll in that division...they can sell the average seats in their ballpark at a high price, but compared to St. Louis or Houston...they have a 2nd team to compete with, and they have no advantage like luxury boxes or a modern stadium.

 

At best, he goes from a case where he's the #2 spending team in the league to a case where he's the #3 spending team in the league, except with a 35% lower total salary and very little room for revenue expansion, along with the likelihood of revenue contraction having happened this year.

 

$150-175 million buys you a lot more mistakes than $100-$120 million.

He' won 2 WS. The Cubs payroll is not going to be an issue. And as I pointed out after you listed all his mistakes, his teams for the most part still won, so how does that happen? His coming on board probably just guaranteed the Cubs more revenue in 2012.

[Balta1701]

He' won 2 WS. The Cubs payroll is not going to be an issue. And as I pointed out after you listed all his mistakes, his teams for the most part still won, so how does that happen? His coming on board probably just guaranteed the Cubs more revenue in 2012.

And it also guaranteed them an extra $5 million in costs just to pay his and Hoyer's salaries.

[Dick Allen]

And it also guaranteed them an extra $5 million in costs just to pay his and Hoyer's salaries.

2 World Series titles.

His teams won 95,98,95,86,96,95,95,89,90 games. You're right, he's a trainwreck. The Cubs f***ed up again.

[Balta1701]

2 World Series titles.

His teams won 95,98,95,86,96,95,95,89,90 games. You're right, he's a trainwreck. The Cubs f***ed up again.

Oh, I see, so someone else's players won 95 games his first year.

[SoxAce]

And it also guaranteed them an extra $5 million in costs just to pay his and Hoyer's salaries.

 

... So at the end of the day your goal is not to win the World Series and worry about finances later, but not do a thing every season and rack up the big bucks... got it.

Edited October 24, 2011 by SoxAce

[witesoxfan]

Oh, I see, so someone else's players won 95 games his first year.

 

Yep, but I'd say he was just fine for the next 8 though, wouldn't you?

[caulfield12]

It's kind of like the Phil Jackson thing with the Bulls and Lakers.

 

Will Theo be able to do it without similar talent and payroll cushion in Chicago?

Without the revenues he can generate from a new stadium (see Emmanuel, Rahm)?

 

We'll see.

 

St. Louis has a set rotation already for 2012. They're in pretty good shape, despite J4L's concerns about Rasmus leaving.

 

Obviously, Milwaukee will take a hit with Fielder leaving. Cincy should be more competitive, Pittsburgh as well.

 

All things considered, he's in better position than the AL East because there are no Yankees, Rays or Blue Jays to contend with...legitimately four strong teams ever year, with the exception of Baltimore/Angelos.

 

 

 

We'll also see how much Bill James and Allard Baird may/might have meant to the success of Epstein when he's on his own in Chicago.

 

Byrnes was definitely perceived by the majority of execs in the league as being more capable than Hoyer, FWIW.

 

 

 

 

 

Byrnes, the Padres' vice president of baseball operations, receives high marks from a couple of former co-workers, including Cleveland Indians president Mark Shapiro.

 

After meeting Byrnes at a Haverford (Pa.) College alumni baseball game in 1994, Shapiro's father, sports agent Ron Shapiro, immediately advised his son to hire Byrnes.

 

Though the players' strike of 1994 delayed Byrnes from gaining full-time employment, Shapiro, then Cleveland's director of minor-league operations, brought Byrnes on as an intern. Eventually, Byrnes worked his way up through the department and joined the Colorado Rockies as an assistant general manager in 1999.

 

"It'll make you look good some day if you hire this guy," Mark Shapiro recalled by phone on Friday morning.

 

Team sources said on Thursday night that the Padres plan to elevate Byrnes to the role of GM if Hoyer and McLeod are hired by the Cubs, as expected.

 

Byrnes declined comment earlier this week and told the Associated Press in an email Thursday that "Hopefully we'll know soon."

 

Though Byrnes was fired as the Arizona Diamondbacks' general manager on July 1, 2010, Shapiro believes the Padres will be in good hands.

 

"His combination of skills, work ethic, intelligence and passion and that he likes doing the job make him somebody who once again will be successful as a GM," Shapiro said. "He has incredible character and great leadership potential."

 

When Moorad was the CEO of the Diamondbacks, he hired Byrnes out of Boston in December 2005 to take over as Arizona's general manager. Two seasons later, Moorad gave Byrnes an eight-year contract extension to remain in Arizona.

 

After Byrnes was fired by the Diamondbacks — the product of what one source called a "forced marriage" between Byrnes and Arizona president Derrick Hall — Moorad re-hired him last December.

 

Peter Woodfork, who was Byrnes' assistant general manager in Arizona and now works for Major League Baseball, said his former boss always has the big picture in mind.

 

Byrnes led the Diamondbacks to a National League West title and an NL championship series appearance in 2007, his second season on the job. But sensing he needed more, Byrnes traded six prospects to the Oakland A's to acquire starting pitcher Dan Haren to give Arizona one of the game's most formidable one-two punches along with Cy Young Award winner Brandon Webb. Haren went 37-26 with a 3.56 ERA in Arizona, but injuries sidetracked Webb and Arizona slipped into last place in the NL West by 2009.

 

Not all of Byrnes deals worked out.

 

One of the players in the Haren deal was Rockies slugger Carlos Gonzalez. He traded Carlos Quentin to the Chicago White Sox. And Byrnes left Dan Uggla off the 40-man roster in 2005, allowing Uggla to be selected by the Florida Marlins in the Rule 5 draft.

 

But Byrnes also has received credit from Detroit Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski and New York Yankees GM Brian Cashman for playing a significant role in a three-way trade that brought Ian Kennedy and Edwin Jackson — who later was flipped to the White Sox for Daniel Hudson — to Arizona. Kennedy and Hudson combined for 37 victories this season, helping the Diamondbacks win the NL West title.

 

"Josh is a very talented person who I believe would be successful in any field he pursued, in baseball or beyond," Woodfork said in an email. "His skills do not stem only from his experience, intelligence and his work ethic. In my time with him, he has thrived on building an environment of teamwork and encouragement."

 

One Padres front office source agreed with Woodfork's assessment, saying Byrnes was easy to work with last season. He believes hiring Byrnes would help the Padres smoothly navigate through a period of uncertainty if Hoyer and McLeod leave.

 

"He's great to work with," the source said. "If he's the guy, I'm happy."

 

None of this, of course, comes as a shock to Shapiro.

 

"It has been fun watching him grow," Shapiro said. "He aspired to be a GM, and once he got it, he thoroughly enjoyed the job."

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Read more: http://www.nctimes.com/sports/baseball/pro...l#ixzz1bgOGMEkw

Edited October 24, 2011 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Oh, I see, so someone else's players won 95 games his first year.

He did pick up Big Papi and the 2003 AL batting champ off the scrap heap, and also Kevin Millar, a guy who got a lot of credit for good things his first couple years in Boston. But carry on. Theo had nothing to do with Boston's success. The Cubs f***ed up again.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

Without the revenues he can generate from a new stadium (see Emmanuel, Rahm)?

Huh?

[Rowand44]

The Red Sox were the only team in baseball to win 2 World Series since Theo got there, is there anything else you really need to say?

 

I understand that people just like to rip the Cubs to rip the Cubs but there's literally not a bad thing to say about this move.

[Jordan4life_2007]

The Red Sox were the only team in baseball to win 2 World Series since Theo got there, is there anything else you really need to say?

 

I understand that people just like to rip the Cubs to rip the Cubs but there's literally not a bad thing to say about this move.

 

Jim Hendry > Theo Epstein

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Jim Hendry > Theo Epstein

 

[RockRaines]

The Red Sox were the only team in baseball to win 2 World Series since Theo got there, is there anything else you really need to say?

 

I understand that people just like to rip the Cubs to rip the Cubs but there's literally not a bad thing to say about this move.

You sound like the Cubs marketing dept. They are also hoping this restores faith on the northside, and also sales.

[Harry Chappas]

You sound like the Cubs marketing dept. They are also hoping this restores faith on the northside, and also sales.

 

I have panned this move as I think the cubs have a long way to go and Theo and Jed are good but that they are not a guarantee to win the WS, unlike the KC farm system.

 

The thing is, it has restored faith and is exactly what they need to draw the minion back for a couple of years and the new mayor may even get them some tax money.

[Marty34]

Small thing, but I'm bothered that the Score is carrying the Epstein press conference when they did not carry Ventura's.