maggliopipe Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I'd rather Sale close than Thornton for largely contractual purposes. IIRC, Matty's deal is up after this season. If he excels as closer (as I expect he would), the cost of keeping him is going to skyrocket beyond what will already be the case. Keep him in that setup role and you've got a better chance of keeping him around beyond 2011. I can totally see them being reluctant to pull Sale from the role if he's successful though. Which would be a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Feb 17, 2011 -> 03:26 PM) I can't say why exactly, but I feel entirely the same way. For me, it's because Thornton relies solely upon his fastball. It's arguably the best fastball in the entire game, but managers are generally saving their best fastball hitting bench players for the 9th inning because the closer usually has some pretty nasty stuff as well. If Thornton is faced with that on a consistent basis, I think he will be a bit vulnerable (I was going to say exposed, but if you haven't figured out Thornton's game plan by now, you may as well let me hit against him). I don't have any evidence of this, and the Thome ball is not a valid example (Thornton was in his 3rd inning of work, Thome is normally going to be in the lineup anyways), it's just a gut feeling with some perhaps flawed reasoning behind it. Again, I think he'll be fine, I'd just prefer it to be Sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrenBlackwood Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Chris Sale in Glendale I got this on my phone yesterday, I was reading it to Chase, lying on the couch in his lap.. his phone was by my head, it started going off from a text message.. he looked at it and said "It's Chris" ...I just looked up at him like "Chris who?" ...then he said "He wants to know where the mound is!" I laughed my ass off then told him he's retarded! hahahahaha it was so hilarious, I wish you guys could have been there!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 QUOTE (maggliopipe @ Feb 17, 2011 -> 03:36 PM) I'd rather Sale close than Thornton for largely contractual purposes. IIRC, Matty's deal is up after this season. If he excels as closer (as I expect he would), the cost of keeping him is going to skyrocket beyond what will already be the case. Keep him in that setup role and you've got a better chance of keeping him around beyond 2011. I can totally see them being reluctant to pull Sale from the role if he's successful though. Which would be a shame. He's going to cost a lot to retain no matter what. Downs got 3/$15 and Thornton is quite a bit better than Downs. I think Thornton is closer to a $7 million reliever on the open market...3/$20 to retain him. He's 34 this year, so a 3 year deal gets his ages 35-37 season...even if you pay him the same amount as Downs, I'm not sure he's worth that contract. If they could sign an extension with him for a pretty cheap number, that'd be great, but I wouldn't blame Thornton for wanting to cash in and I would be upset if the Sox committed a significant amount of money to him for the next 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 17, 2011 -> 03:01 PM) Yeah, OK. The Sox have 5 good starters, even if one is a question mark at this point, and setting a role for Sale is a good thing. If they leave him in the bullpen next year, THEN you have a legitimate beef. I can see it now. "Sale was so good in relief, why mess with a good thing?" Jackson is good as gone. Mark is a FA. Peavy will be high risk for as long as we have him. We don't want to give Danks the years it will require to lock him up. And our best SP prospect is Jacob Petricka. That's a whole lotta fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 17, 2011 -> 04:50 PM) I can see it now. "Sale was so good in relief, why mess with a good thing?" Jackson is good as gone. Mark is a FA. Peavy will be high risk for as long as we have him. We don't want to give Danks the years it will require to lock him up. And our best SP prospect is Jacob Petricka. That's a whole lotta fail. And you just made the exact point on why Sale will indeed be tried out as a starter next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Feb 17, 2011 -> 04:31 PM) And you just made the exact point on why Sale will indeed be tried out as a starter next season. The Rangers are afraid to move Feliz to the rotation because he was so good in relief. But they have a stocked system with premium pitching 'spects like Perez and Scheppers. I know I'm a pessimist now. I can admit that. I drank the last of my 2005 kool-aid when we trotted Mark Kotsay out there and traded our top pitching prospect for a year and two months of Javy the sequel. I just think they're not going to want to move him if he does indeed flourish. Which I expect he will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 17, 2011 -> 04:42 PM) The Rangers are afraid to move Feliz to the rotation because he was so good in relief. But they have a stocked system with premium pitching 'spects like Perez and Scheppers. I know I'm a pessimist now. I can admit that. I drank the last of my 2005 kool-aid when we trotted Mark Kotsay out there and traded our top pitching prospect for a year and two months of Javy the sequel. I just think they're not going to want to move him if he does indeed flourish. Which I expect he will. We're going to need a starting pitcher next season and he's for sure going to get the first chance, I'm positive on this. People need to remember that he's still 21(turning 22 next month) and this is going to be his first full season in professional baseball, it's not like he's been stuck in the minors for 4 season with out a chance to prove he can be a starter. He has a ton of value to our bullpen right now and not so much to our rotation. He belongs in our bullpen this season, and he deserves a shot to crack the rotation next year. As Wite said, if he's not given an opportunity to start next year than you guys have a right to complain and I guarantee you a lot more of us will be right there with ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 QUOTE (IChaseBlackWood @ Feb 17, 2011 -> 05:45 PM) Chris Sale in Glendale I got this on my phone yesterday, I was reading it to Chase, lying on the couch in his lap.. his phone was by my head, it started going off from a text message.. he looked at it and said "It's Chris" ...I just looked up at him like "Chris who?" ...then he said "He wants to know where the mound is!" I laughed my ass off then told him he's retarded! hahahahaha it was so hilarious, I wish you guys could have been there!! It's strange to think that Sale has never even been to spring training before, he's so firmly entrenched on the team. I guess he wouldn't really know his way around Camelback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Feb 17, 2011 -> 03:58 PM) Yep. Today is a sad, sad day for those of us who value starting pitching. And an extremely happy day for people who value the chance to win in 2011. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 17, 2011 -> 03:03 PM) I don't think so. Ozzie is going to want 2 lefties aside from his closer, and the odds are very, very good that one of Thornton and Sale is closing - I'd say around 98% that one of those two closes. And, for $1.5 mill this year and $2.5 mill next year, I'd rather have a 2nd (3rd) lefty that actually has pretty good stuff opposed to the s*** they've been throwing out there. 3 lefties in the pen is a huge advantage. I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 As long as Jake can stay healthy for once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Feb 17, 2011 -> 02:51 PM) It's strange to think that Sale has never even been to spring training before, he's so firmly entrenched on the team. I guess he wouldn't really know his way around Camelback. He'd never been west of Kansas City before he got to AZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjshoe04 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Feb 17, 2011 -> 08:31 PM) He'd never been west of Kansas City before he got to AZ. I've never been west of Kansas City myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Feb 17, 2011 -> 06:16 PM) And an extremely happy day for people who value the chance to win in 2011. Sure, better for 2011, and worse for 2012 and 2013 and so on. Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather be better or 2012 and beyond than just 2011. Meh, I mean, we went with a DH by committee last year, so I am not always shocked by bad player management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Feb 18, 2011 -> 12:30 AM) Sure, better for 2011, and worse for 2012 and 2013 and so on. Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather be better or 2012 and beyond than just 2011. Meh, I mean, we went with a DH by committee last year, so I am not always shocked by bad player management. This is not bad player management. This is player management with which you disagree. There is a big difference. And personally, I'd rather the Sox do what they can to cash in on this year's team and worry about next year's team next year. You don't know that they will be worse, but considering Jackson, Buehrle, and Thornton are free agents, it's very likely that they will be worse and Chris Sale will have no effect on that whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 18, 2011 -> 03:03 AM) This is not bad player management. This is player management with which you disagree. There is a big difference. Mark Kotsay at DH last year was bad player management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Feb 18, 2011 -> 01:30 AM) Sure, better for 2011, and worse for 2012 and 2013 and so on. Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather be better or 2012 and beyond than just 2011. Meh, I mean, we went with a DH by committee last year, so I am not always shocked by bad player management. Since anything can happen year to year, I'd rather play for 2011 than for 2012, considering it's currently 2011. But maybe that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Feb 17, 2011 -> 03:24 PM) With Thornton and Sale I don't think it ends up being all that important who gets the ninth because sometimes the eighth ends up being more important (think Minnesota 3-4-5) That's how I feel. I'd rather be able to match Chris up, then to have him pigeon-holed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 18, 2011 -> 09:30 AM) That's how I feel. I'd rather be able to match Chris up, then to have him pigeon-holed. I don't think I like the idea of having both of the lefties as matchup-guys. I have a feeling they'll both benefit if they know that one of them is getting the 9th and the other one needs to be ready earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Feb 17, 2011 -> 08:31 PM) He'd never been west of Kansas City before he got to AZ. He pitched in Oakland and Anaheim in late September last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Feb 18, 2011 -> 12:30 AM) and worse for 2012 and 2013 and so on. And you have no idea if this is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Should Sale, Chapman be starting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 18, 2011 -> 03:03 AM) This is not bad player management. This is player management with which you disagree. There is a big difference. And personally, I'd rather the Sox do what they can to cash in on this year's team and worry about next year's team next year. You don't know that they will be worse, but considering Jackson, Buehrle, and Thornton are free agents, it's very likely that they will be worse and Chris Sale will have no effect on that whatsoever. Exactly, but he's going to continue talking as though everyone else is an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Feb 18, 2011 -> 11:20 AM) And you have no idea if this is true. And you have no idea that this won't delay his progress as a starting pitcher either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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