Chris Sale Will Start the Season in the Bullpen

[ptatc]

And you have no idea that this won't delay his progress as a starting pitcher either.

 

Seemed to work for Buerhle. Many pitchers start off in the pen and become starters later. One reason is to learn to pitch to MLB hitters in contolled, hand picked situations before they need to face everyone.

 

[gatnom]

Honestly...when I look at the Sox's bullpen, and I look at the kind of money guys like Soriano got, Benoit got...Sale in the bullpen is a better option than signing someone. It isn't necessarily the best option...but spending a ton of money to fill that hole would have hamstrung us even more.

 

You wouldn't necessarily have needed to sign a free agent, just throw one of those minor league arms that you were pimping earlier in the off season as future contributors in the pen. And, you bring up an interesting point with the money free agent relievers are getting. Hopefully, the Sox find the money to retain Thornton because it would really be difficult to lose both him and Sale at the back end of our bullpen next year.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Seemed to work for Buerhle. Many pitchers start off in the pen and become starters later. One reason is to learn to pitch to MLB hitters in contolled, hand picked situations before they need to face everyone.

 

Buehrle started 30 minor league games over 1 1/2 seasons before being called up and relieving for half a season.

 

By the start of 2012, Sale will have started exactly 0 minor league games and logged 1 1/2 seasons in the bullpen.

 

I think Buehrle's 30 games started and 1 1/2 years or starting in the minors helped him make that change. Sale will have 0 games started and 0 years of starting before he makes the change.

 

[witesoxfan]

What is your point? It's not like Chris Sale has never started a game in his life. Is there some special rule that he needs to start some games in the minors before he can start in the majors?

[knightni]

How many games did Sale start in college during his four years prior to being drafted?

[ptatc]

Doesn't matter what Buerhle did in the minors. It's learning how to get MLB hitters out. If it's arm strength your worried about, they can send him to the winter leagues to make up the innings.

Edited February 19, 2011 by ptatc

[sircaffey]

What is your point? It's not like Chris Sale has never started a game in his life. Is there some special rule that he needs to start some games in the minors before he can start in the majors?

No rule, but how many players can you name that have made their first PRO start in the majors? Mike Leake's the only one of late that comes to mind, and he absolutely blew up after 10 starts. It's a tough transition. Hopefully Sale can do it, but it's not done often for a reason.

[TomPickle]

How many games did Sale start in college during his four years prior to being drafted?

Chris Sale, like most college players that get drafted, spent 3 years in college.

 

2008: 36 IP

2009: 89 IP

2010: 103 IP

[knightni]

I'd compare 4 years of college to Rookie, Low-A, High-A, AA; in general development.

 

 

[sircaffey]

I'm also a bit concerned that Ozzie will play the match-ups too much forcing Sale to pretty much bag his change like last season. If he's going to continue his development, he needs to be put into situations where he can use his whole repertoire (aka, facing lefties and righties).

[YASNY]

I can think of a guy that was a 1st round pick, whose career was almost a bust because his team kept throwing out there as a starter and he sucked. Then he was traded, put in the pen and has been pretty damn effective since. Matt Thornton. The point being that there is not a failsafe blueprint on how to handle young pitchers. You have to judge the individual based on what you see and do what you think is best.

[witesoxfan]

No rule, but how many players can you name that have made their first PRO start in the majors? Mike Leake's the only one of late that comes to mind, and he absolutely blew up after 10 starts. It's a tough transition. Hopefully Sale can do it, but it's not done often for a reason.

 

Well I know there is no rule, but you have to look at each of these on an individual basis. I can guarantee you that Stephen Strasburg would have been just fine with no minor league experience, and Mark Prior probably would have too. Those two, coincidentally in this instance, have either suffered an injury or have battled injuries their entire career. The White Sox called Sale up as quickly as they did because they were in a pennant race and he has the stuff and command to be able to get major league hitters out. That will be true again this year.

 

It's also not done often because the pitcher is not ready to get major league hitters out. It has less to do with the idea and more to do with the ability of the pitcher. I could start for the Cleveland Indians on Opening Day, no minor league experience, and I would get shelled. It has nothing to do with my lack of minor league experience and everything to do with my inability to get hitters out. That's why the minor leagues exist. Chris Sale is an example of a pitcher who has stuff to get major league hitters out, so, again, you have to treat each of them on an individual basis.

 

I can think of a guy that was a 1st round pick, whose career was almost a bust because his team kept throwing out there as a starter and he sucked. Then he was traded, put in the pen and has been pretty damn effective since. Matt Thornton. The point being that there is not a failsafe blueprint on how to handle young pitchers. You have to judge the individual based on what you see and do what you think is best.

 

And the White Sox certainly will give Sale a chance to start. The only problem I see is that Sale could certainly struggle initially and the Sox might pull the plug too quickly - Williams and company have shown a tendency to do that. Hopefully they will have a long leash with him if he begins to struggle.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Chris Sale, like most college players that get drafted, spent 3 years in college.

 

2008: 36 IP

2009: 89 IP

2010: 103 IP

 

Soo.....

 

2008: 36 IP

2009: 89 IP

2010: 103 IP

2011: 65-70 IP?

2012: 170+ IP?

 

Yeah, I can't see a reason to doubt that plan.....

 

EDIT: And yes, I realize they won't allow Sale to go 170 IP if he is a reliever in 2011, and that is kind of my point. He will be behind where he could have been if he had continued to increase his innings every year by being a starter.

Edited February 19, 2011 by JoeCoolMan24

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I can think of a guy that was a 1st round pick, whose career was almost a bust because his team kept throwing out there as a starter and he sucked. Then he was traded, put in the pen and has been pretty damn effective since. Matt Thornton. The point being that there is not a failsafe blueprint on how to handle young pitchers. You have to judge the individual based on what you see and do what you think is best.

 

It would be a damn shame to never allow Sale the chance to fail at being a starter.

[Jordan4life_2007]

It would be a damn shame to never allow Sale the chance to fail at being a starter.

 

You, sir, are a negative poster. Lol. I agree with you completely by the way. This franchise is in no position to be dicking around the only legitimate SP prospect we have.

Edited February 19, 2011 by Jordan4life

[justBLAZE]

If Sale was starting for us this year he would have to be shutdown at some point to limit his innings. If you're fine with that and have the likes of Humber and Harrell starting games in September, all power to you.

 

Once again, this makes the White Sox a better team in 2011, I understand 2012 is important but let's worry about that after the World Series trophy parade. I love how you guys know better what to do with Sale than the whole White Sox coaching staff

 

 

 

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

If Sale was starting for us this year he would have to be shutdown at some point to limit his innings. If you're fine with that and have the likes of Humber and Harrell starting games in September, all power to you.

 

Once again, this makes the White Sox a better team in 2011, I understand 2012 is important but let's worry about that after the World Series trophy parade. I love how you guys know better what to do with Sale than the whole White Sox coaching staff

 

If the whole White Sox coaching staff all were in agreement on what to do, there would never have been a debate, or taken until spring training to make a decision.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

If Sale was starting for us this year he would have to be shutdown at some point to limit his innings. If you're fine with that and have the likes of Humber and Harrell starting games in September, all power to you.

 

Yeah, if you are assuming Jake Peavy does not come back in 2011, or doesn't finish the season. My plan (as well as others) is to see Sale starting for Peavy until he comes back, and then be sent to AAA to start for the remainder of the year until the rosters expand, and then Sale gets added to the bullpen for September. That really has nothing to do w/ Humber or Harrell.

[Ranger]

If the whole White Sox coaching staff all were in agreement on what to do, there would never have been a debate, or taken until spring training to make a decision.

 

 

They waited until spring to make that announcement because they wanted him to do his normal offseason preparation. It didn't hurt that they waited.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

They waited until spring to make that announcement because they wanted him to do his normal offseason preparation. It didn't hurt that they waited.

 

They could have announced it prior and still told him to do his usual offseason prep. I mean, it's not like he is going to tell them no, and do his own thing.

[witesoxfan]

Yeah, if you are assuming Jake Peavy does not come back in 2011, or doesn't finish the season. My plan (as well as others) is to see Sale starting for Peavy until he comes back, and then be sent to AAA to start for the remainder of the year until the rosters expand, and then Sale gets added to the bullpen for September. That really has nothing to do w/ Humber or Harrell.

 

But the White Sox entire plan was to have Sale be in a set role all year. They believe that dicking around with him and his regiment - going from starting pitcher to reliever, which is still happening in your scenario - is wrong.

 

There is plenty of precedent for pitchers being converted from reliever to starting pitcher and doing so successfully. Derek Lowe, Adam Wainwright, CJ Wislon, and I'm sure countless others. The year to be worried about Sale falling apart is not 2012 - I'm quite sure that if he makes the transition from reliever to starter next year and actually be a good pitcher, then he will make it through the year just fine. The year to worry about with this type of situation is 2013. Lowe's ERA jumped from 2.58 to 4.47, Wainwright missed 12 starts in 2008, and I imagine you will see some regression from CJ Wilson this year as well. Lowe was bad again the following year but pitched extremely well in the postseason and has been a rock for the past 6 years, and Wainwright has twice finished in the top 3 of the Cy Young vote.

 

My best guess would be that Sale would see that regression happen next year if he were to start this year - due to the increased work load from the previous season while also not having the experience against major league hitters - and this plan should allow him to atleast get major league experience against major league hitters.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

But the White Sox entire plan was to have Sale be in a set role all year. They believe that dicking around with him and his regiment - going from starting pitcher to reliever, which is still happening in your scenario - is wrong.

 

Ok fine, then shut him down when the rosters expand, or go with a 6-man rotation to keep the starters fresh for the playoffs (hopefully).

[Balta1701]

Soo.....

 

2008: 36 IP

2009: 89 IP

2010: 103 IP

2011: 65-70 IP?

2012: 170+ IP?

 

Yeah, I can't see a reason to doubt that plan.....

 

EDIT: And yes, I realize they won't allow Sale to go 170 IP if he is a reliever in 2011, and that is kind of my point. He will be behind where he could have been if he had continued to increase his innings every year by being a starter.

You're missing a whole lot of innings. Both 2010 and 2009 he also pitched in the Cape Cod league, and got to ~160 innings in both seasons when you count both leagues.

[southsider2k5]

Well I know there is no rule, but you have to look at each of these on an individual basis. I can guarantee you that Stephen Strasburg would have been just fine with no minor league experience, and Mark Prior probably would have too. Those two, coincidentally in this instance, have either suffered an injury or have battled injuries their entire career. The White Sox called Sale up as quickly as they did because they were in a pennant race and he has the stuff and command to be able to get major league hitters out. That will be true again this year.

 

It's also not done often because the pitcher is not ready to get major league hitters out. It has less to do with the idea and more to do with the ability of the pitcher. I could start for the Cleveland Indians on Opening Day, no minor league experience, and I would get shelled. It has nothing to do with my lack of minor league experience and everything to do with my inability to get hitters out. That's why the minor leagues exist. Chris Sale is an example of a pitcher who has stuff to get major league hitters out, so, again, you have to treat each of them on an individual basis.

 

 

 

And the White Sox certainly will give Sale a chance to start. The only problem I see is that Sale could certainly struggle initially and the Sox might pull the plug too quickly - Williams and company have shown a tendency to do that. Hopefully they will have a long leash with him if he begins to struggle.

 

Chris Sale has no where near the stuff that Prior and Strausburg had at the same ages.

[southsider2k5]

They waited until spring to make that announcement because they wanted him to do his normal offseason preparation. It didn't hurt that they waited.

 

Has it been asked if Peavy was out until, say, June or July, would Sale have been in the starting rotation? (or at least been giving a shot at a starting job)