greg775 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) All the Sox had to do to shut us all up, and make us all optimistic for the season is to sign Dunn and get rid of Kotsay. That's it. To a lesser extent, getting rid of Bobby also has silenced all the naysayers and put everybody in an extremely positive frame of mind (although I still love Bobby). Many of us don't like Teahen, but there's not the unabashed, vicious hatred especially with him likely being in a platoon role. Can you ever recall an offseason where all of the Sox fans on this board have been so pleased? The only thing that could wreck this feeling is if the Sox start slowly, then there will probably be a lot of anti-Ozzie stuff beginning again. But this has been a nirvana off season for Sox fans. If I lived in Chicago, I definitely would have bought in season ticket wise for this season. Edited February 18, 2011 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Feb 18, 2011 -> 04:18 PM) All the Sox had to do to shut us all up, and make us all optimistic for the season is to sign Dunn and get rid of Kotsay. That's it. To a lesser extent, getting rid of Bobby also has silenced all the naysayers and put everybody in an extremely positive frame of mind (although I still love Bobby). Many of us don't like Teahan, but there's not the unabashed, vicious hatred especially with him likely being in a platoon role. Can you ever recall an offseason where all of the Sox fans on this board have been so pleased? The only thing that could wreck this feeling is if the Sox start slowly, then there will probably be a lot of anti-Ozzie stuff beginning again. But this has been a nirvana off season for Sox fans. If I lived in Chicago, I definitely would have bought in season ticket wise for this season. Probably? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Addressing the #1 really poor decision from last year in a big way that almost no one can argue with is a pretty good way to placate your fan base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Feb 18, 2011 -> 04:18 PM) All the Sox had to do to shut us all up, and make us all optimistic for the season is to sign Dunn and get rid of Kotsay. That's it. To a lesser extent, getting rid of Bobby also has silenced all the naysayers and put everybody in an extremely positive frame of mind (although I still love Bobby). Many of us don't like Teahan, but there's not the unabashed, vicious hatred especially with him likely being in a platoon role. Can you ever recall an offseason where all of the Sox fans on this board have been so pleased? The only thing that could wreck this feeling is if the Sox start slowly, then there will probably be a lot of anti-Ozzie stuff beginning again. But this has been a nirvana off season for Sox fans. If I lived in Chicago, I definitely would have bought in season ticket wise for this season. He will continue to suck as long as everybody keeps spelling his name wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveBrown85 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 By getting rid of Kotsay they also got rid of his hot wife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 QUOTE (DaveBrown85 @ Feb 18, 2011 -> 06:25 PM) By getting rid of Kotsay they also got rid of his hot wife But not the pictures of her on the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Feb 18, 2011 -> 05:40 PM) Addressing the #1 really poor decision from last year in a big way that almost no one can argue with is a pretty good way to placate your fan base. Right. Hard to argue with the worst offensive spot being replaced with the best offensive spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveBrown85 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Feb 18, 2011 -> 06:40 PM) But not the pictures of her on the internet. touche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Feb 18, 2011 -> 04:40 PM) Addressing the #1 really poor decision from last year in a big way that almost no one can argue with is a pretty good way to placate your fan base. No doubt they're better, but it isn't why they lost. Pitching (especially the bullpen in the last couple of months) screwed them last year more than anything else, and this year the outcome will again rest mostly on pitching. The 2010 outcome really had very little to do with Kotsay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Ranger @ Feb 20, 2011 -> 05:46 PM) The 2010 outcome really had very little to do with Kotsay. We chose Kotsay over Thome last season, even though Thome could've been had for the exact same salary. Thome's value last season was over 3 wins, and Kotsay's value was negative. To make things worse, those wins we missed out on went directly to our division rival, who beat us by 6 games in the standings. You can do the math on how many games would be made up in the standings by taking a 3+ win player from your opponent. Of course Thome's season would not have played out exactly the same way it did with the Twins had we stuck with him. But it's clear the decision to make Kotsay our DH was a big time negative impact overall in 2010, and affected the season's outcome more than just a "very little" bit. Edited February 21, 2011 by 3E8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Ranger @ Feb 20, 2011 -> 04:46 PM) No doubt they're better, but it isn't why they lost. Pitching (especially the bullpen in the last couple of months) screwed them last year more than anything else, and this year the outcome will again rest mostly on pitching. The 2010 outcome really had very little to do with Kotsay. The pitching would have been less of an issue had there been somebody who didn't hit .230 getting half the PAs at DH. White Sox pitchers led baseball in FIP and fWAR last season. That wasn't the team's weakness. The White Sox had the worst OPS and wOBA at the DH position last season, that is a weakness. I would say the latter had more to do with the White Sox losing than the former. Edited February 21, 2011 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 QUOTE (Ranger @ Feb 20, 2011 -> 04:46 PM) No doubt they're better, but it isn't why they lost. Pitching (especially the bullpen in the last couple of months) screwed them last year more than anything else, and this year the outcome will again rest mostly on pitching. The 2010 outcome really had very little to do with Kotsay. How soon we forget . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Feb 20, 2011 -> 06:41 PM) The pitching would have been less of an issue had there been somebody who didn't hit .230 getting half the PAs at DH. White Sox pitchers led baseball in FIP and fWAR last season. That wasn't the team's weakness. The White Sox had the worst OPS and wOBA at the DH position last season, that is a weakness. I would say the latter had more to do with the White Sox losing than the former. Well technically there is a pretty good chance of that happening again this year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Feb 20, 2011 -> 07:41 PM) The White Sox had the worst OPS and wOBA at the DH position last season, that is a weakness. No, we were in the middle of the pack DH-output wise. Only because Konerko, Quentin, and Manny got ABs there. Seattle had a .609 OPS from the DH spot, ouch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 20, 2011 -> 07:50 PM) Well technically there is a pretty good chance of that happening again this year... Touché... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 20, 2011 -> 07:50 PM) Well technically there is a pretty good chance of that happening again this year... I do think, however, there is a chance our 2011 opening day DH ends the season with at least one hit against a left-handed pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 QUOTE (3E8 @ Feb 20, 2011 -> 08:04 PM) I do think, however, there is a chance our 2011 opening day DH ends the season with at least one hit against a left-handed pitcher. Dunn is a career .235 hitter against LHP (.817 OPS) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 QUOTE (Ranger @ Feb 20, 2011 -> 04:46 PM) No doubt they're better, but it isn't why they lost. Pitching (especially the bullpen in the last couple of months) screwed them last year more than anything else, and this year the outcome will again re st mostly on pitching. The 2010 outcome really had very little to do with Kotsay. You say this all the time. Just because the supposed strength of the team underachieved doesn't mean you can't compensate in other areas. Kotsay was a joke. Everybody knew it before the season. He reinforced that with his pathetic performance. Thing is I'm not mad at him. That was all Ozzie and KW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 20, 2011 -> 08:15 PM) You say this all the time. Just because the supposed strength of the team underachieved doesn't mean you can't compensate in other areas. Kotsay was a joke. Everybody knew it before the season. He reinforced that with his pathetic performance. Thing is I'm not mad at him. That was all Ozzie and KW. Ya, this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 21, 2011 -> 02:15 AM) You say this all the time. Just because the supposed strength of the team underachieved doesn't mean you can't compensate in other areas. Kotsay was a joke. Everybody knew it before the season. He reinforced that with his pathetic performance. Thing is I'm not mad at him. That was all Ozzie and KW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 20, 2011 -> 06:50 PM) Well technically there is a pretty good chance of that happening again this year... Rephrased: At least there won't be somebody who will have an OPS under .700 getting half the PAs at DH this year. Edited February 21, 2011 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 QUOTE (3E8 @ Feb 20, 2011 -> 06:57 PM) No, we were in the middle of the pack DH-output wise. Only because Konerko, Quentin, and Manny got ABs there. Seattle had a .609 OPS from the DH spot, ouch. .758 was the average last year. I'm not so sure .728 was middle of the pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Feb 20, 2011 -> 11:59 PM) .758 was the average last year. I'm not so sure .728 was middle of the pack. Seven teams above us, six below, i.e. the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (3E8 @ Feb 20, 2011 -> 11:26 PM) Seven teams above us, six below, i.e. the middle. Well not exactly the middle. There was also a huge drop-off after Kansas City. Edited February 21, 2011 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Feb 21, 2011 -> 12:39 AM) Well not exactly the middle. There was also a huge drop-off after Kansas City. There are actually 3 significant drop-offs, with Kansas City to Chicago being by far the smallest. The drop-off from Texas to New York is 59 points, the aforementioned "small" 27 point drop-off from KC to Chicago, and then a monstrosity of an 81 point drop-off from LAA to Seattle. I don't think these drop-offs are exactly coincidental in nature either. In the case of the first 4 teams, they all had mostly full-time DHs - Ortiz, Scott, Thome, and Guerrero. The next set - New York, Cleveland, and Kansas City - each had better players DHing, but lost some time for whatever reason, and also used it to give other players games off. The next 6 teams shuffled the DH position to give players days off and try to work matchups, and it would appear as though that concept simply does not work. And then the final group in Seattle just shows total offensive ineptitude. In summation, I think the Sox are very, very smart in going with a full-time DH. It will add to the overall effectiveness of the lineup and gives them an advantage over quite a few teams (and hopefully the Twins too...Thome has to fall off at some point, doesn't he?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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