TheChrisSamsa Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Feb 24, 2011 -> 10:39 PM) Here's a new holy grail for you: Its from the 1930's. I think I've seen it at Grandstand. Unfortunately, that was never a cap that the Sox wore. There's a few caps out there that are similar in this purpose, honoring a time period, but not what was worn. During this time period, they wore solid colored caps with that logo on their Jerseys. It's a cool logo too. QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Feb 24, 2011 -> 10:52 PM) Ridiculously cool, Chris. Thank you very much! QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Feb 25, 2011 -> 03:27 AM) ? QUOTE (knightni @ Feb 25, 2011 -> 03:43 AM) Here... I'll be more helpful. http://www.grandstandsox.com/store/chicago...st-patrick.html Also... http://www.dugout-memories.com/negroca.html Thanks guys, I guess I should have mentioned that I know where get to those caps.. I'm just waiting for more appropriate times to pick them up: St. Patrick's day or half way to St Pats for the green and.. well.. the next time I go to grandstand for the negro league cap, because I believe they have the New Era version that the Sox wore for the game in 08. QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Feb 25, 2011 -> 07:31 AM) This is my favorite White Sox hat that I own I have a hat similar to this too, as well as a few other fashion hats, I really like that logo. It's a shame that the only official apparel it ever appeared on was the White Sox spring training jerseys from 1982-1986. Speaking of alternate logos.. this is floating around as an alternate logo from the early 30's as well, I can't find any photographic evidence that this logo was ever used in a White Sox uniform anywhere.. jersey or cap... If anyone has any more knowledge or a picture of this logo in use, I'd love to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 They were on dugout jackets too. http://blog.mitchellandness.com/image.axd?...te+Sox+BP+1.JPG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Here's an interesting alternate. Maybe they'll be using these this season. http://www.hatsvip.com/new-era-fitted-mlb-...3331-p-380.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Chris, What's the difference here? http://www.hatsvip.com/new-era-fitted-mlb-...3345-p-394.html http://www.hatsvip.com/new-era-fitted-mlb-...3342-p-391.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Here's another: http://www.caps2011.com/new-era-mlb-hats/c...blue-hat-id1199 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChrisSamsa Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 QUOTE (knightni @ Feb 25, 2011 -> 05:35 PM) They were on dugout jackets too. http://blog.mitchellandness.com/image.axd?...te+Sox+BP+1.JPG It's current equivalent is the diamond sock logo.. It's a very well known alternate logo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 QUOTE (ChrisLikesBaseball @ Feb 25, 2011 -> 06:45 PM) It's current equivalent is the diamond sock logo.. It's a very well known alternate logo. I threw a few more posts in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChrisSamsa Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (knightni @ Feb 25, 2011 -> 05:42 PM) Chris, What's the difference here? http://www.hatsvip.com/new-era-fitted-mlb-...3345-p-394.html http://www.hatsvip.com/new-era-fitted-mlb-...3342-p-391.html QUOTE (knightni @ Feb 25, 2011 -> 05:45 PM) Here's another: http://www.caps2011.com/new-era-mlb-hats/c...blue-hat-id1199 These are all chinese made fakes, modeled after the 2008 Stars And Stripes cap that has become very difficult to find. The over-sized logo and puffy white stitching are clear indicators that these aren't legit or reputable caps. I actually picked one of these up a while back as a place holder until I could find an authentic 2008 stars and stripes hat.. I was pretty surprised at how bad the fake one is. The pictures below should document the differences pretty well. Authentic Hat: Non Authentic Chinese made hat: The fakes are usually made from either New Era blanks that can be bought in bulk, or they're rejects from New Era. The same thing happens with Majestic jerseys, with many tell-tale signs.. I'm pretty well versed on this type of stuff.. so anyone who finds what they think is a really good deal on a Jersey or Cap, I can usually pinpoint the signs of a fake or an authentic pretty well. Edited February 26, 2011 by ChrisLikesBaseball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 So, all of the ones on that site are fakes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChrisSamsa Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 QUOTE (knightni @ Feb 25, 2011 -> 06:05 PM) So, all of the ones on that site are fakes? Yeah. All the caps you just linked are fakes. I mean.. they're real hats.. but they're not produced with the consent of the White Sox, MLB, or New Era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 QUOTE (ChrisLikesBaseball @ Feb 25, 2011 -> 07:09 PM) Yeah. All the caps you just linked are fakes. I mean.. they're real hats.. but they're not produced with the consent of the White Sox, MLB, or New Era. They all say "New Era." http://www.hatsvip.com/new-era-baseball-ha...ats-c-7_13.html Why aren't they getting shut down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChrisSamsa Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (knightni @ Feb 25, 2011 -> 06:12 PM) They all say "New Era." http://www.hatsvip.com/new-era-baseball-ha...ats-c-7_13.html Why aren't they getting shut down? There's caps on that site that look like they're legit New Era caps, but the ones you linked earlier have all the signs of being fakes, plus they're reproductions of a typically difficult to find cap. The prices are suspect, as they're the exact price that I paid for my fake, which shipped directly from China, which is another trigger of evidence of a fake. As for why they're not getting shut down on the caps that they're selling that are fake, I've never really understood it. I added onto my last post that this type of thing happens with Jerseys (I've seen fake MLB, NHL, and NFL jerseys all over the place, all produced by different companies) and Nike, Reebok, and Adidas shoes all the time. For some reason the companies turn the blind eye and don't often pursue any legal action. The actual caps in those pictures are probably New Era caps.. but New Era didn't add the White Sox or MLB logo. It was probably a blank that New Era sold off at wholesale when they switched from all wool to polyester caps for their MLB performance gear. Edited February 26, 2011 by ChrisLikesBaseball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChrisSamsa Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 Just to add on, some fakes of all types of apparel are really well done. I have a black Mark Buehrle black jersey that I paid $40 for and I'm really comfortable wearing to any Sox game or event. I know the little things that make it un-authentic, but they're very subtle. At the same time I bought a gray, road Paul Konerko jersey that came with navy blue lettering instead of the black. If I compare either to my authentic jerseys, the difference in quality and attention to detail is pretty apparent, even beyond the blue lettering. If you're really looking for something authentic, you have to buy from a reputable source, and if you're looking for a good fake, be sure to see it with your own eyes before you spend any money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleCoastBias Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 QUOTE (knightni @ Feb 25, 2011 -> 06:12 PM) They all say "New Era." http://www.hatsvip.com/new-era-baseball-ha...ats-c-7_13.html Why aren't they getting shut down? I think there has been a growing effort to shut down places like this. For example, there was a website http://borntrade.net that would sell what I assume to be knockoff jerseys and hats for cheap. That domain has since been shut down on the authority of the Dept. of Homeland Security. Having said that, you can google 'born trade' and see that they have a new website up and running selling the same stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 What about this one? http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=%...CIgBEPMCMAk4FA# or this one? http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=%...CG8Q8wIwAzi0AQ# or... http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=%...CGgQ8wIwADjIAQ# Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChrisSamsa Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 QUOTE (knightni @ Feb 26, 2011 -> 06:33 PM) What about this one? http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=%...CIgBEPMCMAk4FA# or this one? http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=%...CG8Q8wIwAzi0AQ# or... http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=%...CGgQ8wIwADjIAQ# a.) Addressed in a post above.. it wasn't ever a cap the team wore, they took the logo off of the jerseys from the time period and put it on a hat. They wore blank hats during those years. b.) this is similar, I believe the jersey logo from this era was a blue S and a red o and x in the middle. This hat is made to represent that, though, was never worn on field. c.) I can't find any evidence that the teams in this era ever wore red caps. If there's a picture or a baseball card from that timeframe showings someone like Ted Lyons or someone else from the era in a red cap, I'd pick that one up in a second. truth be told, I'll probably grab all of these eventually to represent their respective eras more accurately, but I've been sticking to the caps that the team wore on field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 QUOTE (ChrisLikesBaseball @ Feb 25, 2011 -> 06:02 PM) I actually picked one of these up a while back as a place holder until I could find an authentic 2008 stars and stripes hat.. I collect Boy Scout memorabilia and especially patches. Some of the patches sell for up to $25,000. Fakes are a problem. There was a very strong push to stop collectors from buying any, even as placeholders, because it kept a market for those patches. Has cap collecting gotten to that point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChrisSamsa Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Feb 27, 2011 -> 05:51 AM) I collect Boy Scout memorabilia and especially patches. Some of the patches sell for up to $25,000. Fakes are a problem. There was a very strong push to stop collectors from buying any, even as placeholders, because it kept a market for those patches. Has cap collecting gotten to that point? A lot of apparel has gotten to that point. Caps and shoes because there's so many short runs, limited editions, and specific variations out there that it opens the opportunity for the fake market to create those products and sell them at a reasonable price. Most jerseys are more readily available, but the fake market for jerseys is probably the biggest. Almost everyone I know "knows a guy" who can get them $40 "authentic" jerseys, and most of them look pretty well done from the front. But, the stitching on the inside is usually a mess and the tackle twill patchwork is often incorrect material or not sewn on in the zig-zag pattern that almost all jerseys use, and many of the hangtags or jocktags are wrong or missing. Most forums for these three markets have a subforum for "legit checks" where people post pictures or ask about websites selling more rare products, but there's still a lot of people out there who don't care if what they buy and wear is authentic, they just want a good price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 What was hurting my hobby are "overruns". Most of the patches are being produced overseas and for legit purposes, they will make 1050 to fill a 1000 pc order. They will then sell the extra 50 direct to whomever. We've been argung for years if these are legit or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChrisSamsa Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Feb 27, 2011 -> 08:30 AM) What was hurting my hobby are "overruns". Most of the patches are being produced overseas and for legit purposes, they will make 1050 to fill a 1000 pc order. They will then sell the extra 50 direct to whomever. We've been argung for years if these are legit or not. How do you tell the difference between the extra 50 and the legit 1000 that went out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 QUOTE (ChrisLikesBaseball @ Feb 27, 2011 -> 08:51 AM) How do you tell the difference between the extra 50 and the legit 1000 that went out? You usually can't. Some of the groups that issue the patches have started sending some sort of authenticity letter, etc. but not many do. So once those are accepted, then the company can make a few more (which is illegal). We also urge people to accept the overruns as part of their order. They even have a name in our hobby "Chang" after the guy who first started selling these. Crazy, but that, and the local Councils who produce the patches who started issuing dozens per year to profit off collectors have almost killed the hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChrisSamsa Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Feb 27, 2011 -> 08:54 AM) You usually can't. Some of the groups that issue the patches have started sending some sort of authenticity letter, etc. but not many do. So once those are accepted, then the company can make a few more (which is illegal). We also urge people to accept the overruns as part of their order. They even have a name in our hobby "Chang" after the guy who first started selling these. Crazy, but that, and the local Councils who produce the patches who started issuing dozens per year to profit off collectors have almost killed the hobby. Sounds like any collection in your hobby is in the eye of the beholder. If you're okay knowing that it could be an over-run piece, and it's enjoyable for you, then you should enjoy it. There will always be the more prized pieces that you hunt down and you have to know are authentic, those are the types of caps and jerseys that keep me looking around. Many of my caps are very easily available, but there's a few in there that you don't see all over the place. The 1906 throwback cap (first on the top left in the picture) was quite difficult to find in the correct color (navy, not black). The 82-86 road cap (Navy with the red brim) is difficult to find from New Era, though Nike mass produces it with a nike logo on the back (yuck), and I've only seen the 1980 road cap (white with navy brim, SOX across the front) one place. The stars and stripes caps will surely disappear in the red and the white, just as the blue one has. My umpire collection is even more of a pride-and-joy collection for me. They're all 100% wool caps, which is period correct for the AL and NL specific caps, and I've only seen the MLB cap a few places, while I've only seen the AL and NL specifics one place. Everyone's got priorities with their collections, I tend to lean more to the fun side of collecting, as opposed to the value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Awesome hat collection. Makes me want to start one like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 QUOTE (FlaSoxxJim @ Feb 24, 2011 -> 07:06 PM) I LOVE my replica 1926 road cap. It's the one I always wear if I'm meeting someone ive never met before at the ballpark because I can tell them to look for that hat and when they find it it's pretty certain they found me as well. [/bad chris hansen joke] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 So, I was at the Cooperstown on the Road exhibit at the Henry Ford museum a few years ago. I saw the 1917 Red, White, and Blue flag jersey. I believe that it had a matching cap as well, but I don't recall how it looked. Here's the pic: http://image56.webshots.com/56/2/66/84/466...84IahYqN_fs.jpg Ah. It's cap #5 on your top row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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