southsider2k5 Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 QUOTE (SoxAce @ May 22, 2011 -> 04:14 PM) Yea but with stronger testing now-a-days? Seems people assume it more now than they did 4-5 years ago even when they have PEDs in their system, they will get caught. Now could Jose be taking something that hasn't been identified yet? Maybe, but it still makes me shake my head when people still assume a guy is juicing, especially when he's still hitting bombs, not having a big HR year and suddenly falling off. (Brady Anderson) There is no test for HGH, that's why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Anyone else watch 60 Minutes tonight about Lance Armstrong? Good luck Lance getting your way out of this one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 22, 2011 Author Share Posted May 22, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ May 22, 2011 -> 07:51 PM) Anyone else watch 60 Minutes tonight about Lance Armstrong? Good luck Lance getting your way out of this one! Lance Armstrong played baseball? Did he join the Barons too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Link A tip from a parole officer led to the arrest of one of the suspects in the attack on a San Francisco Giants fan outside Dodger Stadium after the rival teams' season opener, a brutal beating that prompted an outpouring of support for the victim and outrage in the sports world and beyond. The man detained early Sunday is believed to be the "main aggressor" in the March 31 beating that left Bryan Stow with brain damage, Los Angeles Chief Charlie Beck said at an afternoon news conference at the stadium. An emotional Beck hailed the work of 20 full-time detectives who he said have pursued 630 leads in the case so far. The police chief choked back tears as he described getting a call at 7 a.m. Sunday from Assistant Chief Earl Paysinger. "He said the words I've been waiting for for seven weeks. He said that we had Bryan's assault suspect in custody," Beck said. "This is a huge step." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 22, 2011 -> 02:49 PM) I read something that suggested that basically, HGH is hit or miss with people and it simply can't have that drastic of an effect. I also saw someone finally make a point I was thinking about but it was so out there that I didn't want to make it - this jump is simply too big for it to be PEDs alone. When there is clear video evidence of a mechanical adjustment, I'm going to assume that, but I think other people can acknowledge that the dude has changed too while convicting him of PED use as well. (I still think it's a f***ing joke that the first thing people say about Jose Bautista is "STEROIDS/HGH/PIGS FEET/WHATEVER"...it's insulting) Has Bautista ever been tested for HGH? It does suck that it's the first thing I think of, but blame Bud Selig. I've seen too many players put up crazy numbers out of nowhere to automatically think it's just a slight swing adjustment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ May 22, 2011 -> 07:38 PM) Has Bautista ever been tested for HGH? It does suck that it's the first thing I think of, but blame Bud Selig. I've seen too many players put up crazy numbers out of nowhere to automatically think it's just a slight swing adjustment. I just personally don't believe that HGH could have this type of an effect on any hitter simply due to the nature of the product. It doesn't seem to drastically increase the strength of a person. If there is any effect, it's simply improving vision. It (apparently) leans you out and will help with day to day recovery, but there is no real indication of that. And it wasn't a slight swing adjustment either, it's a very drastic change that he has made and it's basically been a complete overhaul of his swing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ May 22, 2011 -> 07:38 PM) Has Bautista ever been tested for HGH? It does suck that it's the first thing I think of, but blame Bud Selig. I've seen too many players put up crazy numbers out of nowhere to automatically think it's just a slight swing adjustment. No, mlb doesn't test for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Is Salty using a first basemans glove tonight? I don't think I've ever seen that, but it sure does make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I have such a hatred for Bobby Valentine as an announcer. I'd rather have Joe Morgan back. For those watching the Bulls game, Valentine said that Starlin Castro has the potential to be better than Ernie Banks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 22, 2011 -> 07:48 PM) I just personally don't believe that HGH could have this type of an effect on any hitter simply due to the nature of the product. It doesn't seem to drastically increase the strength of a person. If there is any effect, it's simply improving vision. It (apparently) leans you out and will help with day to day recovery, but there is no real indication of that. And it wasn't a slight swing adjustment either, it's a very drastic change that he has made and it's basically been a complete overhaul of his swing. How many people do you know that take HGH? How are you sure that it doesn't help you hit home runs? People said similar things about Bonds too, that you still need to be able to see the ball, strength doesn't matter. Maybe the vision improvement is helping him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 22, 2011 -> 07:48 PM) I just personally don't believe that HGH could have this type of an effect on any hitter simply due to the nature of the product. It doesn't seem to drastically increase the strength of a person. If there is any effect, it's simply improving vision. It (apparently) leans you out and will help with day to day recovery, but there is no real indication of that. And it wasn't a slight swing adjustment either, it's a very drastic change that he has made and it's basically been a complete overhaul of his swing. I'm not sure where you got this information but HGH has a huge effect. The athletes just need to take more of it and it costs more. The dosage given out to the appropriate patient's doesn't have drastic effects just enough to stimulate normal growth. However, in the amount athletes take, it makes drastic changes. Look at the NFL. Most of the players are on it. The medical staff will tell you, they estimate 75-80% of players are on it. This is the current PED of choice because the only somewhat reliable test is through a blood test. No union, MLB or NFL has given in to allow blood test, for some valid reasons. I'm sure there are some designer anabolics out there but nobody has found them yet. Labs cannot test for PEDS in general. They need to know what to test for. So if they don't know about it, they cannot test for it. The IOC may be coming out with a program that could change this. What they will do is take a baseline blood sample. If anything changes, they may not know what they are taking but they will know they are taking something to effect the T/E ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 QUOTE (ptatc @ May 22, 2011 -> 11:10 PM) I'm not sure where you got this information but HGH has a huge effect. The athletes just need to take more of it and it costs more. The dosage given out to the appropriate patient's doesn't have drastic effects just enough to stimulate normal growth. However, in the amount athletes take, it makes drastic changes. Look at the NFL. Most of the players are on it. The medical staff will tell you, they estimate 75-80% of players are on it. This is the current PED of choice because the only somewhat reliable test is through a blood test. No union, MLB or NFL has given in to allow blood test, for some valid reasons. I'm sure there are some designer anabolics out there but nobody has found them yet. And as I always say when this topic comes up...the fact that its illegal means you'll never get a double-blind clinical study of the actual effects of the abuse. It might be that 40% of the people who use it heavily explode like Bonds, 20% see improved visual acuity and some muscle gain but not immense, 20% have ligaments that tear themselves apart, and 20% wind up dead, and you wouldn't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Chase Utley will return on Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 AL and NL went 21 and 21 over the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 QUOTE (ptatc @ May 22, 2011 -> 10:10 PM) I'm not sure where you got this information but HGH has a huge effect. The athletes just need to take more of it and it costs more. The dosage given out to the appropriate patient's doesn't have drastic effects just enough to stimulate normal growth. However, in the amount athletes take, it makes drastic changes. Look at the NFL. Most of the players are on it. The medical staff will tell you, they estimate 75-80% of players are on it. This is the current PED of choice because the only somewhat reliable test is through a blood test. No union, MLB or NFL has given in to allow blood test, for some valid reasons. I'm sure there are some designer anabolics out there but nobody has found them yet. Labs cannot test for PEDS in general. They need to know what to test for. So if they don't know about it, they cannot test for it. The IOC may be coming out with a program that could change this. What they will do is take a baseline blood sample. If anything changes, they may not know what they are taking but they will know they are taking something to effect the T/E ratio. Thanks for the info, as always. Great stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 23, 2011 -> 07:51 AM) And as I always say when this topic comes up...the fact that its illegal means you'll never get a double-blind clinical study of the actual effects of the abuse. It might be that 40% of the people who use it heavily explode like Bonds, 20% see improved visual acuity and some muscle gain but not immense, 20% have ligaments that tear themselves apart, and 20% wind up dead, and you wouldn't know. randomized double blind studies are rare in all medical literature due to confidentiality, HIPPA and FERPA concerns as well as patient consent. However, walk into an NFL locker room and you'll know. The most obvious sign for HGH is the head changing shape. It usually has the Jay Leno chin effect and the protruding forehead. Of course you can't prove it. there are many studies done on the lower dosage HGH for the treatment of dwarfism and some muscular diseases. All of this research shows the improvement in growth and the increased muscle strength and endurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamtheHBOMB Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (ptatc @ May 23, 2011 -> 01:30 PM) randomized double blind studies are rare in all medical literature due to confidentiality, HIPPA and FERPA concerns as well as patient consent. However, walk into an NFL locker room and you'll know. The most obvious sign for HGH is the head changing shape. It usually has the Jay Leno chin effect and the protruding forehead. Of course you can't prove it. there are many studies done on the lower dosage HGH for the treatment of dwarfism and some muscular diseases. All of this research shows the improvement in growth and the increased muscle strength and endurance. I wonder if the suppliers of HGH tell these athletes about the acromegaly? I wonder how many would reconsider if they knew that taking that stuff would leave them looking like Homo erectus. Edited May 23, 2011 by IamtheHBOMB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 QUOTE (ptatc @ May 23, 2011 -> 01:30 PM) randomized double blind studies are rare in all medical literature due to confidentiality, HIPPA and FERPA concerns as well as patient consent. However, walk into an NFL locker room and you'll know. The most obvious sign for HGH is the head changing shape. It usually has the Jay Leno chin effect and the protruding forehead. Of course you can't prove it. there are many studies done on the lower dosage HGH for the treatment of dwarfism and some muscular diseases. All of this research shows the improvement in growth and the increased muscle strength and endurance. You can treat dwarfism? I was also unaware that Leno was such a cheater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ May 23, 2011 -> 02:17 PM) You can treat dwarfism? I was also unaware that Leno was such a cheater. I used to have a neighbor that was on some steroids or HGH to help him grow, poor kid had almost 35 surgeries before he was 13, about 10 of them serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ May 23, 2011 -> 02:17 PM) You can treat dwarfism? I was also unaware that Leno was such a cheater. Yes you can in certain instances. Dwarfism in a generic sense is a pituitary problem, where it doesn't produce the appropriate amount of human growth hormone (HGH). Sometimes these conditions can be treated some cannot. It depends on how well the pituitary is functioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 #19 for Bautista Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 As unsure as I am that Bautista is clean, I would like to see a guy that is not overtly cheating to break the 61 mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Any skepticism on Granderson and his 16? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 24, 2011 -> 12:25 AM) Any skepticism on Granderson and his 16? His body is not much different than it was 13 years ago when he was playing at TF South. He showed a lot of power in a huge park in Detroit, and the biggest improvement seems to be his approach against LHP. Playing in that park, it's not a surprise he's putting up huge numbers finally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ May 23, 2011 -> 07:29 PM) His body is not much different than it was 13 years ago when he was playing at TF South. He showed a lot of power in a huge park in Detroit, and the biggest improvement seems to be his approach against LHP. Playing in that park, it's not a surprise he's putting up huge numbers finally. Nobody seems to be saying Bautista's body is any different than it was a few years ago though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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