greg775 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 22, 2011 -> 05:26 AM) The same Twins that are currently 4 games out of last place. You sure you want to add players from the Twins? I have to imagine that the Sox are going to have a relatively quiet offseason. A trade here or there, perhaps a resigning here or there, but they aren't going to be uber aggressive as they were this past offseason. Oh, and Alex Rios is not going to be a bench player going into the season. If they were going to do that, they'd be better eating 75% of his salary and trading him elsewhere and going with someone who is more acclimated towards being a bench player. I wouldn't be surprised to see Lillibridge, Viciedo, Rios, and De Aza all getting significant ABs from the outfield next year with Quentin traded and Pierre let go. My idea wouldn't cost us money. Add Cuddyer, trade CQ, CQ will get us something very good. Rios hit a very nice bomb today but he isn't an everyday starter anymore. Not after this season IMO. I like the OF of Viciedo, DeAza, Cuddyer very much. Rios is super sub. Edited August 22, 2011 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 21, 2011 -> 11:52 PM) My idea wouldn't cost us money. Add Cuddyer, trade CQ, CQ will get us something very good. Rios hit a very nice bomb today but he isn't an everyday starter anymore. Not after this season IMO. I like the OF of Viciedo, DeAza, Cuddyer very much. Rios is super sub. The White Sox can't afford a $125 million payroll again. Costs will be cut in the offseason as younger players are brought in. On top of that, Viciedo is probably a superior player and is most definitely a superior talent to Cuddyer right now, and he's going to cost $6-10 million less. And you can like Viciedo, De Aza, Cuddyer all you want - it's not going to happen. It's (probably) going to be Viciedo, Rios, De Aza, and Lillibridge, and if they like Milledge enough, they may bring him back as well. The only one of that group who really can't play CF is Viciedo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 And you can like Viciedo, De Aza, Cuddyer all you want - it's not going to happen. I didn't say it would happen. I said some of our nemesis Twins are available and I wouldn't mind Cuddyer. We need some new blood. We're .500 now. Next year with the same personnel, we'll be worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 22, 2011 -> 01:38 AM) I didn't say it would happen. I said some of our nemesis Twins are available and I wouldn't mind Cuddyer. We need some new blood. We're .500 now. Next year with the same personnel, we'll be worse. Or they'll be better. Or they'll be about the same. Those are the 3 possible outcomes. Cuddyer is an OK player. He's not going to be enough of an upgrade to spend the necessary amount to bring him in, especially with the relative depth that the White Sox have on their roster. Answer me this: if guaranteeing gigantic sums of money to Dunn, Rios, and Peavy didn't work, and, assuming there is no possible way for them to improve next year (which is absurd and almost certainly quite the opposite of what will actually happen), why do you think throwing more money at it would solve the problem? Considering the contributions the Sox have gotten from their young, or at the very least, cost controlled players - Lillibridge, Santos, De Aza, Humber, and, to lesser extents, Flowers, Beckham (0.8 WAR), and Morel (0.2 WAR and .280/.300/.400 thus far in the second half) - wouldn't it make sense to turn to them instead of bringing in expensive free agents? Instead of signing Michael Cuddyer, why not use Dayan Viciedo who is going to cost 1/10th that of Michael Cuddyer? Instead of bringing in Joe Nathan or Matt Capps (who have both been pretty bad this year), why not give Gregory Infante or Addison Reed a shot at a bullpen spot? It's almost certain that is, in fact, what the Sox will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 22, 2011 -> 12:08 AM) The White Sox can't afford a $125 million payroll again. Costs will be cut in the offseason as younger players are brought in. That could be a myth the ownership always wants us to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 In fact, Flowers is making a pretty strong statement that we were ready to turn over the keys to him in 2012. Escobar could factor in as replacement for Vizquel....although one can't be sure how well he could play 3B or 2B. Lillibridge really needs to get some experience at 3B, IMO. With Viciedo/DeAza/Milledge/Danks all in the mix, as well as Lillibridge for outfield spots...we should be set there. The biggest question mark is whether Lillibridge only plays against LHP in a platoon, or he's an everyday player on the infield somewhere. That would mean a trade or "surrender" of Morel/Ramirez/Beckham though. None of those things are likely if they legitimately want to compete in 2012. They won't be spending their way into contention. Cuddyer already turned down $12 million and 2 years from the Twins. In all likelihood, he'll get $15-18 and 2 from the Yankees or Red Sox. The Yankees are finally tired of Swisher, supposedly. If Reddick's the long-term plan for the Red Sox, he makes much less sense there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 The only problem is who is going to take a year of AJ at $6 million? It seems like teams were interested in the $3 to $4 range, but that is a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 There are a lot of places Cuddyer makes sense. There are a lot of places a lot of players make sense. I wouldn't automatically assume Cuddyer to either Boston or New York, especially since I'm not even sure he's the best free agent on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 22, 2011 -> 08:27 AM) There are a lot of places Cuddyer makes sense. There are a lot of places a lot of players make sense. I wouldn't automatically assume Cuddyer to either Boston or New York, especially since I'm not even sure he's the best free agent on the market. I'm still not convinced he leaves Minny. Guys love it up there, though maybe that has changed with the new stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 22, 2011 -> 09:27 AM) There are a lot of places Cuddyer makes sense. There are a lot of places a lot of players make sense. I wouldn't automatically assume Cuddyer to either Boston or New York, especially since I'm not even sure he's the best free agent on the market. He doesn't have to be the best FA on the market to be a good fit for those teams. Boston could use a corner OF who provides some production, plays good defense, and hits from the right side (to balance Ellsbury/Gonzalez/Crawford). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I think if Wsox were to bring in an OF assuming Pierre is gone and Quentin is traded someone cheap like Delmon Young/Willingham/Dejesus. If Beckham doesnt retool his swing I actually would be ok with Lillibridge being the starting 2B and Escobar could be the super utility role, should provide above avg. defense at very least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Aug 22, 2011 -> 12:38 PM) I think if Wsox were to bring in an OF assuming Pierre is gone and Quentin is traded someone cheap like Delmon Young/Willingham/Dejesus. If Beckham doesnt retool his swing I actually would be ok with Lillibridge being the starting 2B and Escobar could be the super utility role, should provide above avg. defense at very least. I think Escobar is still only like 22 so I wouldn't mind leaving him in AAA another year to see if his bat can improve a bit more before relegating him to a utility role in the bigs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 22, 2011 -> 08:29 AM) I'm still not convinced he leaves Minny. Guys love it up there, though maybe that has changed with the new stadium. I believe this post to be pretty darn inaccurate. Sure, if they pay up, players might extend, however I see no actual evidence that "guys love it up there". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Aug 22, 2011 -> 12:44 PM) I think Escobar is still only like 22 so I wouldn't mind leaving him in AAA another year to see if his bat can improve a bit more before relegating him to a utility role in the bigs AAA for another year is entirely the right move for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 22, 2011 -> 01:21 PM) In fact, Flowers is making a pretty strong statement that we were ready to turn over the keys to him in 2012. Escobar could factor in as replacement for Vizquel....although one can't be sure how well he could play 3B or 2B. Lillibridge really needs to get some experience at 3B, IMO. With Viciedo/DeAza/Milledge/Danks all in the mix, as well as Lillibridge for outfield spots...we should be set there. The biggest question mark is whether Lillibridge only plays against LHP in a platoon, or he's an everyday player on the infield somewhere. That would mean a trade or "surrender" of Morel/Ramirez/Beckham though. None of those things are likely if they legitimately want to compete in 2012. They won't be spending their way into contention. Cuddyer already turned down $12 million and 2 years from the Twins. In all likelihood, he'll get $15-18 and 2 from the Yankees or Red Sox. The Yankees are finally tired of Swisher, supposedly. If Reddick's the long-term plan for the Red Sox, he makes much less sense there. Viciedo/DeAza/Milledge/Danks?Lilly? I am assuming you are starting Rios? Milledge is nothing. My outfield of Viciedo/DeAza/Cuddyer with Rios as No. 4 at least on paper gives us a fighting chance at a playoff caliber outfield. As much as I like Juan, if he gets resigned, that's a poor decision. Edited August 22, 2011 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 22, 2011 -> 03:20 PM) Viciedo/DeAza/Milledge/Danks?Lilly? I am assuming you are starting Rios? Milledge is nothing. My outfield of Viciedo/DeAza/Cuddyer with Rios as No. 4 at least on paper gives us a fighting chance at a playoff caliber outfield. As much as I like Juan, if he gets resigned, that's a poor decision. That might be the worst defensive outfield in the majors. On top of that, you are going into the season with a player making like less than $1 mill starting in CF, a player making $2.5 mill starting in LF (when he has never really played LF), a player making, saya, $8-10 million in RF, and a player making $12 million on the bench. That is not a very good use of resources. At the very least, you may as well play Rios to try and salvage his trade value so that he can be dealt at some point in or after 2012. --- I really hope the White Sox sign Nick Punto in the offseason. He's not a very good player - in fact, he's terrible - but he use to play for the Twins, so he would be a really good addition for the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Wow, I'm somewhat surprised that the advanced stats rate Cuddyer as a below average OF. Most of the announcers seem to have argued the opposite when I've watched games involving the Twins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 22, 2011 -> 04:44 PM) Wow, I'm somewhat surprised that the advanced stats rate Cuddyer as a below average OF. Most of the announcers seem to have argued the opposite when I've watched games involving the Twins. That's because announcers are dumb and like to sugar coat things. Cuddyer has never been a good outfielder. He has an extremely strong and pretty accurate arm, but he doesn't have a very good feel for playing the outfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 He'd be, at best, league average if he played there everyday. Next to Kubel and Delmon Young, he looks decent comparatively. They've moved him all over the place the last couple of years. Everywhere but SS, I think, and C...maybe not CF either. As pointed out above, arm strength is his biggest asset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Well, as expected, Detroit now is hot and grasping the division. So our season of hanging around .500 hoping we "get hot" is a big rotten fail. Yes I want to sign a guy like Cuddyer to change things up. As much as people hate "grinders" on this board, We could use a Reed Johnson/Cuddyer and I want Cuddyer. So what if overpaid Rios is my sub outfielder. I'd like to simply release him but I realize we can't do that even though by keeping him it poisons our team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 23, 2011 -> 01:29 AM) Well, as expected, Detroit now is hot and grasping the division. So our season of hanging around .500 hoping we "get hot" is a big rotten fail. Yes I want to sign a guy like Cuddyer to change things up. As much as people hate "grinders" on this board, We could use a Reed Johnson/Cuddyer and I want Cuddyer. So what if overpaid Rios is my sub outfielder. I'd like to simply release him but I realize we can't do that even though by keeping him it poisons our team. This is why you are greg775, Faceless Internet Poster instead of greg775, GM of the White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 23, 2011 -> 07:19 AM) This is why you are greg775, Faceless Internet Poster instead of greg775, GM of the White Sox. *greg775, Member of Chris Rongey Fan Club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 23, 2011 -> 08:33 AM) *greg775, Member of Chris Rongey Fan Club I thought he was THE Chris Rongey Fan Club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 There's more than one member? How many followers does Rongey have at twitter these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 23, 2011 -> 12:19 PM) This is why you are greg775, Faceless Internet Poster instead of greg775, GM of the White Sox. I know I have no power, but I just like discussion of minor signings/moves we could make to maybe help our punchless offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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