greg775 Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 04:57 PM) No, you ignore stats that people show you and rely only on your own eye test and what "other people that you know that are not on this site" tell you. Dont act like people dont back up their points on this site. The only person who I consistently see that makes points and consistently fails to back them up with any form of statistical analysis is YOU. You also make broad generalizations of what people say on this site. Nobody said Quentin sucks. Pretty much everyone here agrees that Quentin is an injury liability, he is due for a big payday, and is far too streaky to pay him the big bucks that he is going to be asking for. So, these same people agree that he is someone who should be put on the trading block to get value for him before he goes to the open market. I am sorry you dont understand that part of the business, but that is all it is. Business QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 05:56 PM) Greg/elrockinMT bash on other posters in complete hypocritical post They get called out by other posters/mods They ignore such posts Repeat So is he or is he not a "good" ballplayer? I said he is and again there's been a lot of Juan hate on here talking about his "empty" accomplishment. Kylie I think you've lost it. I've read the stats on Juan people post. I can assess them and still in my mind come up with the conclusion he's a "good ballplayer." I read the stats people put on here and am glad to see them. People on this site turn the arguments around when I ask a simple question. Who on this team IS a good ballplayer? I was told Juan is not a good ballplayer and neither is CQ. Paulie is good I was told. Somebody thought Lexi is a good ballplayer. Some of the pitchers I was told are "good." It's not my fault this site doesn't wanna talk about generalities as I do. Is he a good ballplayer or not? When I see the answer is "no," yes I think that's a hater of Juan. Edited September 8, 2011 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 S. M. H. pretty big difference in speaking in generalities and making broad generalizations about a large group of people, but as always i see you dont see the difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 02:08 PM) So is he or is he not a "good" ballplayer? I said he is and again there's been a lot of Juan hate on here talking about his "empty" accomplishment. Kylie I think you've lost it. I've read the stats on Juan people post. I can assess them and still in my mind come up with the conclusion he's a "good ballplayer." I read the stats people put on here and am glad to see them. People on this site turn the arguments around when I ask a simple question. Who on this team IS a good ballplayer? I was told Juan is not a good ballplayer and neither is CQ. Paulie is good I was told. Somebody thought Lexi is a good ballplayer. Some of the pitchers I was told are "good." It's not my fault this site doesn't wanna talk about generalities as I do. Is he a good ballplayer or not? When I see the answer is "no," yes I think that's a hater of Juan. Trying to use qualitative evidence to describe a player is subject to bias. You may think Juan Pierre is a good player. I do not think Juan Pierre is a good player. He has value, but he has far too many flaws in his game for me to describe him as good. Now, let's look at quantitative evidence. In what has been a good season for him, he still hasn't walked much, has played worse outfield defense, has been caught stealing 14 times in 39 attempts (for comparison's sake, he was caught 18 times in 86 attempts last year), and has fewer extra base hits than Adam Dunn. Juan Pierre has 2.5 times as many hits as Adam Dunn. I'm not saying Dunn has been better - he has quite clearly not - but it just goes to show how weak of a hitter Juan Pierre really is that all he can do is hit singles. XBHs produce runs. Juan Pierre, therefore, just is not that efficient at producing runs. Have you not wondered - considering he's led off pretty much his entire career, has played pretty much every game of every season except his final 2 years in Los Angeles), and generally steals anywhere between 40-65 bases a year - why he hasn't scored 100 runs in a season since 2004? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 02:08 PM) So is he or is he not a "good" ballplayer? I said he is and again there's been a lot of Juan hate on here talking about his "empty" accomplishment. Kylie I think you've lost it. I've read the stats on Juan people post. I can assess them and still in my mind come up with the conclusion he's a "good ballplayer." I read the stats people put on here and am glad to see them. People on this site turn the arguments around when I ask a simple question. Who on this team IS a good ballplayer? I was told Juan is not a good ballplayer and neither is CQ. Paulie is good I was told. Somebody thought Lexi is a good ballplayer. Some of the pitchers I was told are "good." It's not my fault this site doesn't wanna talk about generalities as I do. Is he a good ballplayer or not? When I see the answer is "no," yes I think that's a hater of Juan. Juan Pierre hasn't been consistently good at baseball since 2004. I think Pierre is now a bad baseball player, but that wasn't always the case. Juan Pierre, early in his career, was a very good leadoff hitter because he got on base at a fairly high clip, stole a lot of bases, and was a good defensive center fielder. But here are the facts since then... Pierre has posted an OBP over .350 only once since 2004 and that was during a season where he only had 400 PAs. Pierre has failed to reach the 3 WAR mark since 2007 and has only reached that threshold once since 2004. Pierre has posted a wRC+ over 90 only once since 2004 and that one occasion was in his shortened 2009 season where he got hot for two months. Pierre's fielding has taken a huge downgrade this season along with his base running ability. Therefore, he is losing range in the outfield and speed on the base paths. In other words, he's getting old. So you have a declining speedster who hits nothing but singles. Thus he must use his speed in the field and on the bases to get him value. Unfortunately, he's not even doing the things that gave him value before well anymore. Therefore, Juan Pierre is no longer a good player. He once was, but that was a long ass time ago. See if I really hated Juan Pierre (like J4L does), I would say things like "Juan Pierre was never a good baseball player" or "Juan Pierre always sucked". But that's complete subjectivity without any evidence and I simply don't roll that way. And even when J4L hates Pierre to no end, he has his reasons and he will explain precisely why he hates him when you ask him nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Fair enough discussion on Pierre in the last 2 posts. I won't ask the follow up question I now was going to ask. I'll let it die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 06:11 PM) Fair enough discussion on Pierre in the last 2 posts. I won't ask the follow up question I now was going to ask. I'll let it die. Man, don't let that nerd chw42 throw some bulls*** saber crap that no one gives a s*** about at you and just shrug it off.. .308/.343/.364/.707 second half line for the talentless Juan Pierre, not too bad especially when you look at some of the other scrubs we have on this team this year.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Papa Tru @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 01:55 AM) Man, don't let that nerd chw42 throw some bulls*** saber crap that no one gives a s*** about at you and just shrug it off.. .308/.343/.364/.707 second half line for the talentless Juan Pierre, not too bad especially when you look at some of the other scrubs we have on this team this year.. You're using some of the same bulls*** saber crap I was using. A .343 OBP for a leadoff hitter is barely medicore. A .707 OPS is not good. I don't know what you're trying to get at. Comparing him to the likes of Adam Dunn and Alex Rios proves my point. It's like trying to say you're better than the disabled kid in your class. Edited September 9, 2011 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 02:06 AM) You're using some of the same bulls*** saber crap I was using. A .343 OBP for a leadoff hitter is barely medicore. A .707 OPS is not good. I don't know what you're trying to get at. Comparing him to the likes of Adam Dunn and Alex Rios proves my point. It's like trying to say you're better than the disabled kid in your class. Relax buddy, I was poking at greg a little there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 05:56 PM) Greg/elrockinMT bash on other posters in complete hypocritical post They get called out by other posters/mods They ignore such posts Repeat What's your point? I have an opinion and I express it. Others can express their opinions. I am ok with that. Don't have to agree with them and they don't have to agree with mine. We shouldn't make it personal though. I thought I was wrong once-that was the only time I was ever wrong Edited September 9, 2011 by elrockinMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjm676 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 http://www.chicagoreader.com/Bleader/archi.../09/pay-by-play The White Sox won a thriller last week, and I heard it on the radio. The key inning was either the Fifth Third inning or the 5-Hour Energy fifth, I can't recall for sure—I think it was before the Beggar's Pizza eighth, because the Binny's Beverage Depot Attendance hadn't yet been announced. I knew the Sox were about to score. The Mercy Hospital heart-of-the-order was up, and the opposing pitcher was only throwing 85 mph on the Xfinity-Comcast radar gun. After a Waste Management walk and a Pit Crew Barbeque Sauce fielder's choice, the Sox took the lead on a Lowe's double, and then a Community Hospital homer gave them two Safeco insurance runs, and forced an Orland Park BMW pitching change. Ed Farmer said he owed me a station ID. "That's OK, you can keep it," I told my radio. If you listen keenly to a baseball broadcast these days, you can sometimes pick up a moment of genuine baseball action amid the jingles the announcers read every time bat meets ball, and often when it doesn't. No matter how many pitches the starters throw, it won't equal the number the poor adcasters must deliver. Even collisions are sponsored in Sox games—by Gerber Collision & Glass, which, as Farmer's sidekick, Darrin Jackson, says, comes "highly wreck—ommended." That's right—if Alex Rios and Juan Pierre slam into each other at full speed, don't fret: one or both may end up in the hospital, but at least Gerber will get some notice. Although most plays already are sponsored, a few possibilities remain untapped. And given the need to pay for another three slugging years from Adam Dunn, expect them to be tapped soon. Next season we may be hearing this: "Boy, what a game, Ed." "That's right, Darrin, and it all comes down to this at bat. The Sox are up by a run with two outs in the last of the ninth here in Yankee Stadium. Tying run on first, and Chris Sale facing Alex Rodriguez. Sale looks in for the sign, tugs at his crotch—" "That crotch-tug, Ed, and every crotch tug tonight is sponsored by Lotrimin anti-fungal jock itch cream. Whether it's itching, burning, cracking, scaling, or chafing, Lotrimin goes extra innings for you." "Called strike—looked like a slider, D.J." "And, pardner, each and every slider is brought to us by White Castle." "Ah, those White Castle sliders, Darrin. Used to wolf down a dozen of them after baseball practice when I was playing for Saint Rita." "A reminder, folks, that every reminiscence by my partner Ed Farmer is brought to you by Classmates.com." "Strike two! Right on the corner, Darrin." "That's another dozen grilled paninis to the Salvation Army, Ed, courtesy of our friends at the Corner Bakery. "Sale checks the runner, delivers—A-Rod lines it just foul past third base." "All our fouls today, Farmio, have been sponsored by KFC. KFC: it's split-finger-lickin' good." "Oh and two, Darrin, but Sale had better be careful—A-Rod still has a powerful stroke." "Speaking of strokes, Ed, they're a part of life. And any strokes in the stands today are brought to you by Stroke & Distance Nursing Homes. Stroke & Distance: they go the distance for you." "This could be the ballgame, Darrin. The lanky rookie is ready on the rubber. Here's Sale's pitch. A-Rod hits a towering drive to left! Pierre back—back—And if you're having back problems, Sox fans, see the massage therapists at Heavenly Oasis, they'll have you back to health in no time." "Uh—what happened to the fly ball, Ed?" "I'm not sure, D.J., I was reading—but the Sox are walking off the field, and they don't look too happy." "They should visit the counselors at Shrinkers and Associates, Ed. Shrinkers—they'll keep you feeling Jung. Well, Farmio, that wraps this one up. Join us tomorrow, folks, for the pay-by-play—we'll have the Miller Lite game time and temperature for you at 1:10. So long, everybody." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (robinventura23 @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 01:12 PM) http://www.chicagoreader.com/Bleader/archi.../09/pay-by-play If it keeps ads off uniforms and the playing field (other than walgreens on the OF wall.and backstop) I can live with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSoxMatt Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Good to see someone in John Isner's box at the US Open is wearing a WHITE SOX hat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Everyone clamouring for rebuilding and saying they would go to a ton of Sox games if the tickets were cheaper, your time is now. The games are meaningless, the younger players (even though most aren't that young) are playing, and tickets can be had on stubhub for $5. Step up to the plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 10, 2011 -> 06:14 PM) Everyone clamouring for rebuilding and saying they would go to a ton of Sox games if the tickets were cheaper, your time is now. The games are meaningless, the younger players (even though most aren't that young) are playing, and tickets can be had on stubhub for $5. Step up to the plate. Good point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 10, 2011 -> 01:14 PM) Everyone clamouring for rebuilding and saying they would go to a ton of Sox games if the tickets were cheaper, your time is now. The games are meaningless, the younger players (even though most aren't that young) are playing, and tickets can be had on stubhub for $5. Step up to the plate. But Alex Rios does keep playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 10, 2011 -> 06:14 PM) Everyone clamouring for rebuilding and saying they would go to a ton of Sox games if the tickets were cheaper, your time is now. The games are meaningless, the younger players (even though most aren't that young) are playing, and tickets can be had on stubhub for $5. Step up to the plate. Like you said though, the games are meaningless now. In a rebuilding year where there's some sense of the season not already being over, I think you'd have a little more enthusiasm from the fan base. This team is never going to go into some massive 60 million dollary payroll per season rebuilding process though, so I don't expect any 60-102 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 10, 2011 -> 06:14 PM) Everyone clamouring for rebuilding and saying they would go to a ton of Sox games if the tickets were cheaper, your time is now. The games are meaningless, the younger players (even though most aren't that young) are playing, and tickets can be had on stubhub for $5. Step up to the plate. Great point. Nobody's going to go or care if our young guys are losing next year. Winning is everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 You will never see ticket prices go down. Payroll does not affect ticket prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Cowley's going to love this. Kenny "The Genius" Williams Williams has a cameo on new show on Starz, Boss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 10, 2011 -> 11:14 AM) Everyone clamouring for rebuilding and saying they would go to a ton of Sox games if the tickets were cheaper, your time is now. The games are meaningless, the younger players (even though most aren't that young) are playing, and tickets can be had on stubhub for $5. Step up to the plate. You mean when Adam Dunn and Alex Rios are in the lineup while Viciedo sits on the bench? Rebuilding starts with getting rid of the manager and gm because otherwise we'll never go through it correctly. And you're damn right that I'd actually go to a decent amount of games next season if they attempted to do a rebuild correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Sep 11, 2011 -> 12:57 AM) You mean when Adam Dunn and Alex Rios are in the lineup while Viciedo sits on the bench? Rebuilding starts with getting rid of the manager and gm because otherwise we'll never go through it correctly. And you're damn right that I'd actually go to a decent amount of games next season if they attempted to do a rebuild correctly. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but even if the Sox decide to step back and "rebuild", you're still going to have to watch Dunn and Rios everyday, especially if they stay with Ozzie, because his quote yesterday basically dismissed benching or pinch hitting for big salaried guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 11, 2011 -> 04:25 PM) I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but even if the Sox decide to step back and "rebuild", you're still going to have to watch Dunn and Rios everyday, especially if they stay with Ozzie, because his quote yesterday basically dismissed benching or pinch hitting for big salaried guys. I can't believe one quote from KW has switched the hate regarding Dunn and Rios from those two bums to Ozzie. Grown people believe you can just sit two guys who combined make about 30 million a year. You really think any team in baseball just won't use Dunn n Rios anymore when they are making that kind of jack? Edited September 11, 2011 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 11, 2011 -> 02:32 PM) You really think any team in baseball just won't use Dunn n Rios anymore when they are making that kind of jack? If they legitimately wanted to make the playoffs...yeah, those guys would have become platoon players and then moved towards the bench by mid-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 11, 2011 -> 06:37 PM) If they legitimately wanted to make the playoffs...yeah, those guys would have become platoon players and then moved towards the bench by mid-season. So here's the future of this board. Every f***ing time Dunn makes a whiff next season we're going to have to read criticism of Ozzie, not Dunn. Amazing and awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 11, 2011 -> 02:40 PM) So here's the future of this board. Every f***ing time Dunn makes a whiff next season we're going to have to read criticism of Ozzie, not Dunn. Amazing and awful. As always, you continue to pretend that we didn't spend 4 months criticizing Dunn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.