2011 White Sox Catch-All Thread

[witesoxfan]

Help -

What should I look at stat-wise to determine how good/not good Juan Pierre is offensively?

 

Obviously mediocre OBP for a leadoff guy, but I'd like to graduate to something a little more knowledgeable. Like pointing to line drive ability. Basically I want something that indicates how consistently he hits these annoying little dribblers, and thus how difficult it is for him to bring runners in

 

avg with runners in scoring position? Obviously I could probably look at anything, but I'm looking to kind of shape an argument and learn something about #s in the process.

 

He has absolutely no power whatsoever. In order to be solid offensively, you need to either hit about .330 (which Juan Pierre could only do if he got ridiculously lucky at this point), walk an absolute ton (which Pierre does not do) or you need to have some semblance of power. It doesn't matter that he's the leadoff hitter; in fact, it's preferred as the leadoff hitter that he have some sort of power. If Juan Pierre could hit 40 doubles and 10 triples a year - never gonna happen, I'm well aware - he increases his value exponentially. The reason for this is that you can be on base all you want and you can have a player be as fast as possible - it's still going to take 2 base hits or a home run to score that runner. You can talk about steals all you want to, but steals come at the expense of a hitter potentially digging themselves into a hole by taking a couple pitches or losing aggressiveness at the plate because the steal is on. Beyond that, there's usually about a 1 in 4 chance (and it's been worse than 1 in 2 this year) that he gets thrown out at 2B, which obviously defeats the purpose all together.

 

He would be an OK 9 hitter. He should not be receiving the most plate appearances on the team.

[The Ginger Kid]

He has.

Then I shall commence the campaign.

[Jordan4life_2007]

He has absolutely no power whatsoever. In order to be solid offensively, you need to either hit about .330 (which Juan Pierre could only do if he got ridiculously lucky at this point), walk an absolute ton (which Pierre does not do) or you need to have some semblance of power. It doesn't matter that he's the leadoff hitter; in fact, it's preferred as the leadoff hitter that he have some sort of power. If Juan Pierre could hit 40 doubles and 10 triples a year - never gonna happen, I'm well aware - he increases his value exponentially. The reason for this is that you can be on base all you want and you can have a player be as fast as possible - it's still going to take 2 base hits or a home run to score that runner. You can talk about steals all you want to, but steals come at the expense of a hitter potentially digging themselves into a hole by taking a couple pitches or losing aggressiveness at the plate because the steal is on. Beyond that, there's usually about a 1 in 4 chance (and it's been worse than 1 in 2 this year) that he gets thrown out at 2B, which obviously defeats the purpose all together.

 

He would be an OK 9 hitter. He should not be receiving the most plate appearances on the team.

 

Let me simplify this post: Juan Pierre is a below average baseball player at this point. I guarantee after this year he will NOT start for whatever team he ends up with. Or at the very least no way he hits leadoff.

[Balta1701]

Let me simplify this post: Juan Pierre is a below average baseball player at this point. I guarantee after this year he will NOT start for whatever team he ends up with. Or at the very least no way he hits leadoff.

It's entirely possible the Sox wind up resigning him.

[Jordan4life_2007]

It's entirely possible the Sox wind up resigning him.

 

And that will be the day J4L finds a new team to cheer for. Oh my goodness if that happens. I might switch over to the Cubs.

[scenario]

I might switch over to the Cubs.

 

That would make an interesting sitcom episode.

 

 

[BigSqwert]

It's entirely possible the Sox wind up resigning him.

Hopefully as the margarita vendor.

[Leonard Washington]

And that will be the day J4L finds a new team to cheer for. Oh my goodness if that happens. I might switch over to the Cubs.

The car in your profile picture looks to be the exact same as my first car. Great ride.

 

And to get back on topic, I'm starting to get officially worried about Beckham, and to a larger extent, Rios. They just look so uncomfortable at the plate. The problems look mechanical as much as anything, which starts to go back to the whole "Fire Walker" thing. I'm not as worried about Morel. He looks content with just making contact at this point, but he had similar starts at each level he was promoted to in the minors. As he gets more comfortable, I think he'll start to drive the ball a little better.

[southsider2k5]

And that will be the day J4L finds a new team to cheer for. Oh my goodness if that happens. I might switch over to the Cubs.

 

Another quote to bookmark? Soxtalk is going to need a separate folder for J4L posts

[greg775]

How much longer until Morel and Beckham are starting at Charlotte? Vizquel and Teahen should play more. Pierre and Vizquel should bat one two.

 

I wish it wasn't this way but I have seen about enough of Beckham and Morel is not MLB ready yet if ever.

 

If A.J. grounds out to the first or second baseman again I'm am going to...........well something.

 

Yuk on Pierre/Omar 1-2.

Teahen should never play more.

Beckham has to start hitting for this lineup to be successful. Sending him down or benching him would be dumb.

AJ is no longer a good hitter; I think we just have to face that.

 

[elrockinMT]

Yuk on Pierre/Omar 1-2.

Teahen should never play more.

Beckham has to start hitting for this lineup to be successful. Sending him down or benching him would be dumb.

AJ is no longer a good hitter; I think we just have to face that.

 

 

You seem frustrated

[knightni]

And that will be the day J4L finds a new team to cheer for. Oh my goodness if that happens. I might switch over to the Cubs.

CAN'T WAIT!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7KSkZxt_zo

 

 

[soxrwhite]

And that will be the day J4L finds a new team to cheer for. Oh my goodness if that happens. I might switch over to the Cubs.

Even thinking that makes me question your loyalty. Suicide yes, Cub fan no!

[Leonard Zelig]

Wow, has anybody else heard that Lowe's commercial with Farmer & Alexei?

[oldsox]

Pena is so bad that if we had kept Brandon Allen and made him a pitcher, he would be better than Pena.

[Leonard Washington]

Pena is so bad that if we had kept Brandon Allen and made him a pitcher, he would be better than Pena.

I actually used to be really high on Tony Pena when he first came up for the DBacks, and even though I knew it was a lopsided trade from the start, I was excited he was on the Sox.

 

My how things change. He's awful. Totally and utterly useless.

[Rowand44]

I actually used to be really high on Tony Pena when he first came up for the DBacks, and even though I knew it was a lopsided trade from the start, I was excited he was on the Sox.

 

My how things change. He's awful. Totally and utterly useless.

I was pretty similar to this. I hated the trade from the get go because I thought Brandon Allen had more value than an average reliever at the time(though I never thought Allen would be a legit major league starter) but I really thought Pena was going to turn it around here, boy was I wrong.

[Leonard Washington]

I was pretty similar to this. I hated the trade from the get go because I thought Brandon Allen had more value than an average reliever at the time(though I never thought Allen would be a legit major league starter) but I really thought Pena was going to turn it around here, boy was I wrong.

He's one of those guys that Coop did the opposite of fix.

[kjshoe04]

I was pretty similar to this. I hated the trade from the get go because I thought Brandon Allen had more value than an average reliever at the time(though I never thought Allen would be a legit major league starter) but I really thought Pena was going to turn it around here, boy was I wrong.

I liked him last year. Now I hate the guy.

[Leonard Washington]

I liked him last year. Now I hate the guy.

Yeah, he had a couple of redeemable outings. But it made no sense to me, and likely never will, why they decided to tender him a contract and not Carrasco, who served a similar role much more effectively.

Edited April 29, 2011 by Pale Sox

[witesoxfan]

Yeah, he had a couple of redeemable outings. But it made no sense to me, and likely never will, why they decided to tender him a contract and not Carrasco, who served a similar role much more effectively.

 

Because at the time Pena didn't serve in that role. They viewed Pena as, at the very least, an actual middle reliever - the competent 5th or 6th guy in the pen that I alluded to in the game thread. Carrasco was really nothing more than a mopup guy. On top of that, there was a bit more inherent value in Pena at the time, considering they had just traded Brandon Allen for him like 6 months prior. Carrasco was brought to the Sox on a MLC and thus there was no real loss in the investment.

 

I also get that the Yankees lineup is pretty good, but allowing 5 straight batters to reach without recording an out when there is the slimmest of slim hopes that the team can still mount some sort of comeback is really inexcusable. You are better off going with Nunez or Carter or Infante.

[Leonard Washington]

Because at the time Pena didn't serve in that role. They viewed Pena as, at the very least, an actual middle reliever - the competent 5th or 6th guy in the pen that I alluded to in the game thread. Carrasco was really nothing more than a mopup guy. On top of that, there was a bit more inherent value in Pena at the time, considering they had just traded Brandon Allen for him like 6 months prior. Carrasco was brought to the Sox on a MLC and thus there was no real loss in the investment.

 

I also get that the Yankees lineup is pretty good, but allowing 5 straight batters to reach without recording an out when there is the slimmest of slim hopes that the team can still mount some sort of comeback is really inexcusable. You are better off going with Nunez or Carter or Infante.

Pena served the same role in 2010 that Carrasco served in his time with the Sox. He was a longman, and occasional emergency spot starter. The only difference, performance-wise, is that Carrasco was better at it. They gave up more to get Pena, obviously, but my beef isn't so much the tendering Pena as it is the non-tendering Carrasco. It's irrelevant I guess, but man...what a failure.

[witesoxfan]

Pena served the same role in 2010 that Carrasco served in his time with the Sox. He was a longman, and occasional emergency spot starter. The only difference, performance-wise, is that Carrasco was better at it. They gave up more to get Pena, obviously, but my beef isn't so much the tendering Pena as it is the non-tendering Carrasco. It's irrelevant I guess, but man...what a failure.

 

But that wasn't the intention going into the year. The emergence of Sergio Santos relegated Pena to that duty.

 

What I honestly don't understand is why they didn't convert him to a starter. I get that he's been absolutely terrible thus far and his overall numbers as a starter were worse than as a reliever, but it seemed to me that he performed relatively well in those spot starts he made - I seem to recall one against KC last year where he had 6 perfect innings and hung up a 5 spot or something in the other.

 

Either way, he really doesn't deserve another chance. You DFA him and hope that someone bites.

[Leonard Washington]

But that wasn't the intention going into the year. The emergence of Sergio Santos relegated Pena to that duty.

 

What I honestly don't understand is why they didn't convert him to a starter. I get that he's been absolutely terrible thus far and his overall numbers as a starter were worse than as a reliever, but it seemed to me that he performed relatively well in those spot starts he made - I seem to recall one against KC last year where he had 6 perfect innings and hung up a 5 spot or something in the other.

 

Either way, he really doesn't deserve another chance. You DFA him and hope that someone bites.

 

Agreed on the DFA, and I think that's exactly what will happen once/if Peavy gets back. Humber takes the long-man role, and hopefully somebody steps up to fill Gray's shoes. We need some RH depth in the bullpen.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Even thinking that makes me question your loyalty. Suicide yes, Cub fan no!

 

Question it all you want. I will not tolerate another JP at bat after this year. I'd rather bang Liza Minelli.