Illinois enacts Internet sales tax law

[Y2HH]

Aren't you continuing to ignore the fact that we can't magically instantaneously go from 0 states with an appropriate tax law to 50?

 

No, I'm not. Because all 50 will never do this, therefore I can't continue to ignore something that will never happen.

 

I mentioned that this doesn't work without a playing field. I wish the playing field was level, but wishing it to be true doesn't make it true. We can play the IF game all day long and get nowhere...

 

Or we can discuss what is actually happening, which is what I'm doing.

 

Be that as it may, continue spinning tales of unreality...while your utopia sounds ... well, utopian ... it's not happening.

Edited March 14, 2011 by Y2HH

[StrangeSox]

It'll get worse long before it gets better.

 

This isn't even about America and Americans anymore. It's a global thing...a world economy...and there isn't much we can do about it but make do...just like our race has always done.

 

Accelerationism!

[mr_genius]

I'm going to actually have to side with StrangeSox and Balta on this taxation issue.

[StrangeSox]

We need a :headexplode smiley.

[Balta1701]

I'm going to actually have to side with StrangeSox and Balta on this taxation issue.

::::Faints::::

[RockRaines]

The bottom line is we still dont have to pay illinois taxes on each purchase online. And thats ok.

[StrangeSox]

The bottom line is we still dont have to pay illinois taxes on each purchase online. And thats ok.

 

Actually, legally, you're supposed to. It's just like gambling winnings, though--since most purchases are relatively minor, it's not worth the states' efforts to audit and collect those taxes.

[RockRaines]

Actually, legally, you're supposed to. It's just like gambling winnings, though--since most purchases are relatively minor, it's not worth the states' efforts to audit and collect those taxes.

I report my gambling losses.

 

I figure since they take 40k in taxes, I'm allowed some leeway.

Edited March 14, 2011 by RockRaines

[StrangeSox]

I'm reporting all of you to the IRS.

[Y2HH]

I'm reporting all of you to the IRS.

 

I reported you to the IRS. I told them you won 50,000$ playing craps in vegas, and then bought 50,000$ worth of merch from Amazon.com.

[Balta1701]

I reported you to the IRS. I told them you won 50,000$ playing craps in vegas, and then bought 50,000$ worth of merch from Amazon.com.

I'm reporting you to the Department of Justice for filing a false complaint with the IRS.

[Y2HH]

I'm reporting you to the Department of Justice for filing a false complaint with the IRS.

 

I have a friend that works for the Department of Justice...he will make sure your name appears where my name should appear, and you will be reporting yourself.

[Balta1701]

The NSA has been monitoring my communications since at least 2002. I think the guy who just read your post is named "Steve". At least if he's still working there.

[StrangeSox]

Steve died in 1988 but that's the persona he assumed!

[StrangeSox]

When the people shall have nothing more to eat, they will eat the rich.

[Y2HH]

When the people shall have nothing more to eat, they will eat the rich.

 

Is that what happened in the great depression?

[Jenksismyhero]

Yeah, until the world economy crashed, it wasn't as big of a concern that the existence of e-commerce allowed out-of-state companies to gain a competitive advantage by not having to collect sales taxes and by virtue of the fact that no one reports them or probably even know that they're supposed to.

 

But now it is an issue and Illinois is looking to close pretty blatant tax evasion problems.

 

I don't buy the competitive advantage argument. It's not a bad thing. Online businesses need those. Maybe not the amazons or ebays of the world, but the other "mom and pop" sites that can still provide goods that are otherwise unavailable. I'm tired of shopping at Best Buy, Walmart, Target, etc. I much prefer to shop at localized sites (or sellers within online sites like amazon) that can provide different products at competitive prices. That's the only real competition these days to the big box stores. And the one advantage they had has been taken away.

 

You like to preach about the rich getting richer at the expense of the poor. That's basically what's happening here with big box stores.

[Iwritecode]

You're not doing a lot to convince me otherwise, there. You're basically saying that we need to keep giving in to the demands of businesses more and more or they'll ship our jobs to another state (or more likely another country).

 

Like I said, the most business-friendly environment is a pretty terrible environment and that isn't what states should be trying to out-do each other to reach.

 

edit: my snarky posts don't mean I don't understand and haven't considered what you posted before you posted it.

 

 

So what is it that we should do to keep companies from shipping our jobs to another state/country?

 

Obviously passing this bill wasn't the solution.

[Y2HH]

So what is it that we should do to keep companies from shipping our jobs to another state/country?

 

Obviously passing this bill wasn't the solution.

 

There isn't much you can do anymore.

 

Companies do have to consider the future, however. Being shortsighted now for quick profit may end up costing [a company] dearly in the future. For example, all is well and good right now in China, the lack of basic civil and worker rights, low to no overhead on environmental cleanup, caring for workers, no pensions, no 401k's, etc...however, in 10-20 years when they're deep into their industrial revolution (we already went through it, they're going through it now), where workers begin to unionize (it will happen), and demand fair rights and fair wages/hours (again, it will happen), this "cheap labor" house of cards is going to fall apart at the seams.

[StrangeSox]

So what is it that we should do to keep companies from shipping our jobs to another state/country?

 

Obviously passing this bill wasn't the solution.

 

I already told you:

 

 

There aren't good solutions to the global problems that capitalism are presenting right now.

[Iwritecode]

There isn't much you can do anymore.

 

There aren't good solutions to the global problems that capitalism are presenting right now.

 

OK. What do we do about the problem this thread is about? The fact that companies are leaving Illinois to go to other states?

[NorthSideSox72]

There isn't much you can do anymore.

 

Companies do have to consider the future, however. Being shortsighted now for quick profit may end up costing [a company] dearly in the future. For example, all is well and good right now in China, the lack of basic civil and worker rights, low to no overhead on environmental cleanup, caring for workers, no pensions, no 401k's, etc...however, in 10-20 years when they're deep into their industrial revolution (we already went through it, they're going through it now), where workers begin to unionize (it will happen), and demand fair rights and fair wages/hours (again, it will happen), this "cheap labor" house of cards is going to fall apart at the seams.

There won't be any rapid collapse. As India's cost of labor keeps rising at an astonishing rate, work is going to China. As China increases theirs, companies will go to some other Asian country. Then Africa. Sure, in some decades or centuries, the unfair and destitute cheap labor situation will dissipate, but it won't resolve itself in our lifetime. Meanwhile, the only way for the US to stay in front in terms of living conditions, is to also be in front with new tech of all kinds. That is the key.

 

[Iwritecode]

Link

Sounds like they are trying to get all 50 states to do the same thing Illinois is now doing or make a federal law. Which is the only way it would make sense.

 

This was interesting though:

 

Hours after Illinois Gov. Pat Quinn, a Democrat, signed the Internet sales-tax law last week, Amazon cut ties with its roughly 9,000 Illinois affiliates to avoid collection there. Amazon took similar actions in Hawaii, North Carolina and Rhode Island after those states passed legislation similar to the New York law, which Amazon is challenging in court.

 

Quinn had to know they would do the same thing here.

 

In California, which faces a $26.6 billion shortfall, only 1% of consumers pay use tax by voluntarily reporting online purchases on tax forms

 

Shocking.

 

I don’t entirely agree with the use tax anyway. If I go to another state and buy a souvenir while I’m there (say like a shirt or a hat with the name of the place I’m at) I’m expected to report and pay Illinois tax on that if the place I bought it happens to charge less sales tax?

 

[Texsox]

This advantage is crowed about, but is a total non-advantage. Online retailers have to ship and buy shipping insurance, something the local retailers do not have to do, but they neglect to talk about it...because it upends their gripe. Also, keep in mind that when you buy something online, you have to wait for it, whereas at a regular store, you not only get to see what you are buying before you buy it, and play with it, but you get instant gratification of leaving the store with the item, without having to wait to use it. This also makes returns and exchanges much easier, another advantage they forget they have when they discuss online vs brick and mortar. This cannot be dismissed as a non-advantage...there are plenty of things I buy online, but I wouldn't bother if I knew I could drive to the local retailer and get it immediately...unless of course we are talking a cost savings of hundreds here, which we aren't.

 

There are advantages to both and disadvantages to both, let's not pretend otherwise.

 

 

This does happen, but only when online purchases save them hundreds of dollars, say on a television set. In those cases, it's not taxes holding the brick and mortar back, it's the fact that they're charging 2000$ for a TV that can be purchased online for 1500$. Taxes be damned in a situation like this.

 

 

So people are using on-line purchases to save hundreds of dollars *and* avoiding sales tax. Seems like there are some very nice cost savings being an on-line retailer.

 

Brick and morter stores have to get their product shipped to them, and pay shipping and insurance. Either as a separate line item or built into the price.

 

Whether the difference in sales tax is 5% or 7% or 0% or 5 there is still a difference, and the economic impact will follow.

[Texsox]

I don't entirely agree with the use tax anyway. If I go to another state and buy a souvenir while I'm there (say like a shirt or a hat with the name of the place I'm at) I'm expected to report and pay Illinois tax on that if the place I bought it happens to charge less sales tax?

 

Only if you had the item shipped to you. If you bought it, and paid the sales tax, you would not need to pay a second sales tax.