Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 18, 2011 -> 03:16 PM) Mark Kotsay was in our pen? Oh, well I was talking overall. I've never had a big problem with how Ozzie manages the bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChrisSamsa Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 18, 2011 -> 04:14 PM) Mark Kotsay was our DH last year. The end. Mark Kotsay didn't come out of the bullpen! I think he was referring to Bobby Jenks running his mouth. On-topic: I say go with trial by fire, throw Chris Sale out there as the closer, if he fails, the job is Matt Thornton's to lose. If Thornton fails.. the White Sox are screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Ozzie named Matt Thornton closer after today's game. I knew Rozner had it wrong. Now...could Sale get sent down between now and 3/31? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 QUOTE (flavum @ Mar 19, 2011 -> 05:48 PM) Ozzie named Matt Thornton closer after today's game. I knew Rozner had it wrong. Now...could Sale get sent down between now and 3/31? The only way that could happen is if he loses his confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted April 9, 2011 Author Share Posted April 9, 2011 It is fair to wonder if Thornton is an excellent reliever who isn't a closer. There is a difference. #WhiteSox - Jon Morosi Errors I know, but still.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCangelosi Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 I didn't see last nights game and just saw the highlights. That D in the 9th was brutal. I've been harsh with MT and it appeared he would have closed that thing out last night, what a disgusting loss by this team, they better get their defensive act together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Apr 9, 2011 -> 11:49 AM) I didn't see last nights game and just saw the highlights. That D in the 9th was brutal. I've been harsh with MT and it appeared he would have closed that thing out last night, what a disgusting loss by this team, they better get their defensive act together. Even with the D, something about Matt was unusually hittable last night. Last year at the start of the season, you'd see a lefty come up and walk away having had no chance. Last night, everyone had a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 9, 2011 -> 03:52 PM) Even with the D, something about Matt was unusually hittable last night. Last year at the start of the season, you'd see a lefty come up and walk away having had no chance. Last night, everyone had a chance. I saw the same thing, but at first I wasn't sure if I was just being to critical. The D was bad and could have made the difference, but I thought Matt's pitches were kind of flat? Lack of snap and movement? Anyway I hope he can get back on track. I am worried we have a super set up man not abler to the the closer role similar to "05 and Politte. Cliff was the star in the set up role and melted as a closer more often than not. Edited April 9, 2011 by elrockinMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Apr 9, 2011 -> 12:00 PM) I saw the same thing, but at first I wasn't sure if I was just being to critical. The D was bad and could have made the difference, but I thought Matt's pitches were kind of flat? Lack of snap and movement? Anyway I hope he can get back on track. I am worried we have a super set up man not abler to the the closer role similar to "05 and Politte. Cliff was the star in the set up role and melted as a closer more often than not. I guess I wasn't the only one who felt that either. It's hard to even describe exactly what it was, it just seemed like Matt was pitching from behind more and that the Rays were making better contact than they should have been. Matty was up and warming in the top of the 8th inning, early enough that the Rays announcers were confused why he was up so early. I thought they would give Crain like one batter and then bring in Matty for a lefty since he was up so early. I wonder if that had anything to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 It was a really ugly ninth and Matt looked shaky from the start. I was one of the proponents in Sale's corner for closer and am still skeptical with Thornton closing. Hopefully he turns it on from here and can show me to be very wrong. Conversely - hopefully he's on a short rope - I'd hate for Ozzie to keep going to him if results like this continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 QUOTE (hi8is @ Apr 9, 2011 -> 12:51 PM) It was a really ugly ninth and Matt looked shaky from the start. I was one of the proponents in Sale's corner for closer and am still skeptical with Thornton closing. Hopefully he turns it on from here and can show me to be very wrong. Conversely - hopefully he's on a short rope - I'd hate for Ozzie to keep going to him if results like this continue. Unfortunately, Chris still hasn't acted like he belongs in the spot either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 9, 2011 -> 05:08 PM) Unfortunately, Chris still hasn't acted like he belongs in the spot either. Yea, he had a bad spring but really - aside from on bad pitch on a 3 - 1 count to Butler in the Royals series - he's been good this year thus far. I just like that he has shown in his college career to have poise and intensity. He also has more plus pitches that he can go to for out pitches. We'll see thou my friend - I sure hope Matt can turn the corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 QUOTE (hi8is @ Apr 9, 2011 -> 01:15 PM) Yea, he had a bad spring but really - aside from on bad pitch on a 3 - 1 count to Butler in the Royals series - he's been good this year thus far. I just like that he has shown in his college career to have poise and intensity. He also has more plus pitches that he can go to for out pitches. We'll see thou my friend - I sure hope Matt can turn the corner. Aside from one pitch by Matt Last night, he's been good this year so far too, by that standard. Sale got himself in trouble before that 3-1 pitch to Butler. Sale let the guy on base, Sale fell behind on Butler, Sale was really struggling to get the ball over, and he threw a get-me-over fastball that Butler destroyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 9, 2011 -> 05:08 PM) Unfortunately, Chris still hasn't acted like he belongs in the spot either. This was going to be my post also. Crain and Santos have stepped up. Crain was impressive Friday night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 9, 2011 -> 12:16 PM) Aside from one pitch by Matt Last night, he's been good this year so far too, by that standard. Sale got himself in trouble before that 3-1 pitch to Butler. Sale let the guy on base, Sale fell behind on Butler, Sale was really struggling to get the ball over, and he threw a get-me-over fastball that Butler destroyed. Ignoring Thorton's blown save against the Royals then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Apr 9, 2011 -> 02:53 PM) Ignoring Thorton's blown save against the Royals then? That one was legitimately on a bloop/decent pitch. Ignoring that is the same as ignoring the couple guys Sale put on base when he was pitching against Cleveland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 This was encouraging to read Thornton's response... Two blown saves in two opportunities for Matt Thornton won't change the White Sox closer's approach of continuing to make quality pitches and trying to induce soft contact. He also won't be affected by doubters taking him to task just seven games into the 2011 season. "I am who I am and I've had failure in my career," said Thornton, speaking before Saturday afternoon's contest against the Rays. "This doesn't feel like failure to me. I'm making good pitches. I'm going out there and going after hitters. I didn't walk four guys in a row. I actually didn't walk anyone. I went right after them and continued to attack them. "The results are what they are. They beat me up yesterday and hung five on me. I don't care if they are earned or unearned." Both Alexei Ramirez and Juan Pierre committed errors behind Thornton during Tampa Bay's five-run ninth on Friday, leading to all five runs being unearned. But as Thornton explained, Pierre made three diving catches earlier in the game to help the White Sox take charge, and it's his job to make another pitch and maintain that lead to erase Pierre's miscue. Known primarily for his high-octane fastball, Thornton didn't deviate too far from the script Friday with 29 of his 33 pitches being fastballs. But he mixed in cutters, sliders and fastballs to both sides of the plate and up in the zone. The Rays simply laid off the elevated fastballs. "It's one of those where they did their job," Thornton said. "You have to tip your hat to them a little bit." Dan Johnson's game-winning home run came on a fastball designed to go down and away. Thornton missed that location, and Johnson delivered the only hard-hit ball in either of his 2011 save chances. That process gives Thornton the belief results will change soon if he doesn't change his game plan, although White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen seemed to misunderstand the message coming his way in regard to his closer. "Oh, please don't do the same thing," said Guillen with a laugh of Thornton's two blown saves. "It's not like people think, 'Wow, he blew the game.' I think he pitched good enough to not lose." "I feel good. I feel strong. My arm is feeling good," Thornton said. "It's just a matter of getting on a run here. Results will take care of themselves. [if] you continue to attack hitters and go after them, results will come your way." Time will tell if he's correct - I'm very pleased to see him own up like this and be a man of integrity. Hopefully he works out... if not, I am confident in our two other options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCangelosi Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 QUOTE (hi8is @ Apr 9, 2011 -> 10:18 PM) This was encouraging to read Thornton's response... Time will tell if he's correct - I'm very pleased to see him own up like this and be a man of integrity. Hopefully he works out... if not, I am confident in our two other options. Yes I have been hard on MT regarding his ability to close but there is no doubt the guy has the physical tools to do it and do it well. However, that said, I still like him in the setup role and with Sale in there closing. It didn't bother me one bit he gave up a homer yesterday, he kept dealing and generally looked confident out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Apr 10, 2011 -> 11:26 AM) Yes I have been hard on MT regarding his ability to close but there is no doubt the guy has the physical tools to do it and do it well. However, that said, I still like him in the setup role and with Sale in there closing. It didn't bother me one bit he gave up a homer yesterday, he kept dealing and generally looked confident out there. Word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon_44 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 When people were calling for Thornton last year, I was a defender of Jenks and said that I didn't care about all the stats, like his high ERA, and that his main job was to get saves and preserve the victory. Jenks had a pretty good save %. Thornton, to me, isn't a closer and doesn't have the mentality. By putting him in a closer's role you are not putting him in the best position to succeed and ,on top of that, the Sox are losing something they had over almost every other team, which is the best setup man in the game. I don't know of Sale is the guy, but I'm pretty sure Thornton isn't. If I had to pick someone, I'd likely go with Santos. He doesn't pitch scared and he seems to have the makeup of a good closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Apr 10, 2011 -> 07:10 AM) When people were calling for Thornton last year, I was a defender of Jenks and said that I didn't care about all the stats, like his high ERA, and that his main job was to get saves and preserve the victory. Jenks had a pretty good save %. Thornton, to me, isn't a closer and doesn't have the mentality. By putting him in a closer's role you are not putting him in the best position to succeed and ,on top of that, the Sox are losing something they had over almost every other team, which is the best setup man in the game. I don't know of Sale is the guy, but I'm pretty sure Thornton isn't. If I had to pick someone, I'd likely go with Santos. He doesn't pitch scared and he seems to have the makeup of a good closer. I'm Bigsqwert and I approve this message. Edited April 10, 2011 by BigSqwert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Apr 10, 2011 -> 07:15 AM) I'm Bigsqwert and I approve this message. Same here, but I'd probably still go with Sale. Oh, and I'm Milkman delivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 If I had to go with someone else, it'd be Santos. But, chances are more likely that Matt's been more unlucky than bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Ozzie says "rotating closers" in an article today. http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news...x_cid=nhffromfb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 QUOTE (knightni @ Apr 10, 2011 -> 10:25 AM) Ozzie says "rotating closers" in an article today. http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news...x_cid=nhffromfb Apparently Ozzie lacks faith in Thornton as well. He's always gone with a traditional closer in the past, so why would he suddenly change his philosophy? Personally, I'd give Thornton a few more save opportunities before I announced that I was making role changes in my bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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