Pitching Depth

[Lillian]

Are any of you worried about the pitching depth on this team?

We all love the starting rotation, one through five, and the bullpen looks balanced and solid.

However, is there even a single minor league pitcher in whom you'd have confidence to step up, in case someone got injured?

Moreover, Buerhle and Jackson will be free agents at the end of the year, and Danks seems reluctant to sign a long term deal.

That leaves Peavy, who has yet to prove that he can stay healthy, and Floyd who has yet to prove that he can be consistent.

Of course, there is Sale, but he may be needed in the Pen, and no one knows if he can provide 30 starts, with that delivery.

I'd feel much better if the Sox had one more, good arm, waiting in the wings.

 

The Phillies have a lot of pitching depth, and are growing more desperate every day for offense. Their offense, particularly from the right side, has been a question mark ever since they let Werth go. Now Utley's knee has them very worried, and with Brown lost for a while with a broken wrist, which is always scary for hitters, they might be getting desperate.

 

The Sox have suddenly become pretty deep in the outfield, with Milledge beginning to look like he might actually realize some of that long held promise, and Viciedo needing a spot when he recovers from his injury.

Why not see what kind of pitching the Phillies would consider trading for Quentin?

Oh I know, a lot of you will suggest trading Teahen instead. But come on, Phillies' management isn't that stupid.

I love Carlos, and think that he could well get back on track. However, you have to give up something to get something.

Perhaps the Phillies like Quentin too. In fact, didn't they try to acquire him in the off season?

Would they be willing to part with a promising young pitcher, in exchange for a badly need right handed slugger?

 

Austin Hyatt is intriguing, but I don’t know if he is regarded as a potential top of the rotation starter. Who else could provide a good enough return to consider trading Quentin?

Does the idea of trading Quentin for more pitching make sense to you guys?

 

[NorthSideSox72]

In terms of bullpen guys, there actually is some depth in the minors. Infante is ready, Bellamy is close, and then there's a big wave of pretty decent candidates about a year out.

 

Starting pitching though, is another story. Rotation in Charlotte will probably be something like Marquez/Lowe/Shirek/Hynick/Leesman. Marquez has looked good this spring and I could see him bouncing back, but he's near wash-out status. Leesman is intriguing, he might be the only guy who looks real ready to step in if needed. Shirek was progressing nicely until last year, when his peripherals took a dive and he was hurt, so who knows. Lowe and Hynick are filler.

 

Thing is, Sale and Humber are likely to be on the roster, and they could both potentially step in - so I don't think starting depth in the minors is even an issue for THIS SEASON. Next season may be another story.

 

[justBLAZE]

*waiting for J4L post, telling us all about our farm system suckage*

 

 

Cheers mate! sorry for OT.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Are any of you worried about the pitching depth on this team?

We all love the starting rotation, one through five, and the bullpen looks balanced and solid.

However, is there even a single minor league pitcher in whom you'd have confidence to step up, in case someone got injured?

Moreover, Buerhle and Jackson will be free agents at the end of the year, and Danks seems reluctant to sign a long term deal.

That leaves Peavy, who has yet to prove that he can stay healthy, and Floyd who has yet to prove that he can be consistent.

Of course, there is Sale, but he may be needed in the Pen, and no one knows if he can provide 30 starts, with that delivery.

I'd feel much better if the Sox had one more, good arm, waiting in the wings.

 

If by worried you mean terrified then yes. The Sox have the worst collection of starting pitching prospects in the minors. Nothing to even remotely acknowledge outside of a couple guys who dominated rookie and A-ball at ages 21 and 22. When Phillip Humber and Lucas Harrell are in the running for a rotation spot, depending on Peavy's healthy, that's all that needs to be said. Sale is not starting this year. That ship has already 'sailed.' An injury to Mark, John, Gavin or, gulp, Edwin and you'd have just as good a chance of inserting a Soxtalk poster into the rotation than any scrub from the system.

 

The Phillies have a lot of pitching depth, and are growing more desperate every day for offense. Their offense, particularly from the right side, has been a question mark ever since they let Werth go. Now Utley's knee has them very worried, and with Brown lost for a while with a broken wrist, which is always scary for hitters, they might be getting desperate.

 

The Sox have suddenly become pretty deep in the outfield, with Milledge beginning to look like he might actually realize some of that long held promise, and Viciedo needing a spot when he recovers from his injury.

Why not see what kind of pitching the Phillies would consider trading for Quentin?

Oh I know, a lot of you will suggest trading Teahen instead. But come on, Phillies' management isn't that stupid.

I love Carlos, and think that he could well get back on track. However, you have to give up something to get something.

Perhaps the Phillies like Quentin too. In fact, didn't they try to acquire him in the off season?

Would they be willing to part with a promising young pitcher, in exchange for a badly need right handed slugger?

 

The core of the Philly offense are borderline Geriatrics. The one young position player they have is Brown. They refused to include him in the Halladay trade. He should be back sometime in April. There's no way they would give up anything of value for CQ and have him take PT away from Brown once he's ready to go.

 

Austin Hyatt is intriguing, but I don’t know if he is regarded as a potential top of the rotation starter. Who else could provide a good enough return to consider trading Quentin?

Does the idea of trading Quentin for more pitching make sense to you guys?

 

CQ would've been traded months ago if there was a market for injury-prone, one tool, horrific defenders.

 

[Lillian]

Jordan4life,

So, just whom do the Phillies think they're going to get to provide the right handed offense they need, if they aren't willing to give up anything?

[Balta1701]

Jordan4life,

So, just whom do the Phillies think they're going to get to provide the right handed offense they need, if they aren't willing to give up anything?

Look at the bats that became available last year for practically nothing. Ramirez, Burrell (who went on to win a title), Jose Guillen, probably a bunch of others I'm forgetting.

[Lillian]

Look at the bats that became available last year for practically nothing. Ramirez, Burrell (who went on to win a title), Jose Guillen, probably a bunch of others I'm forgetting.

 

Well, if it's so easy to come up with productive bats, then doesn't that argue for trading some offense for pitching depth?

You wouldn't argue that finding pitchers is also a simple task, would you?

 

I don't know who should be shopped, but it just seems there is not enough pitching depth this year, and going forward.

 

[Y2HH]

Well, if it's so easy to come up with productive bats, then doesn't that argue for trading some offense for pitching depth?

You wouldn't argue that finding pitchers is also a simple task, would you?

 

I don't know who should be shopped, but it just seems there is not enough pitching depth this year, and going forward.

 

Our starting 5 is deeper than a lot of teams...this is discounted why? Because we don't have 30 crappy minor league starters that will probably never see the light of day in the majors?!

 

Even if Peavy goes down, our remaining 4 are STILL deeper than what most teams have.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Y2HH

[Lillian]

Our starting 5 is deeper than a lot of teams...this is discounted why? Because we don't have 30 crappy minor league starters that will probably never see the light of day in the majors?!

 

Even if Peavy goes down, our remaining 4 are STILL deeper than what most teams have.

 

I agree entirely. This year, the staff is good enough that even if someone were lost, it wouldn't be that hard to find another pitcher to be the 5th starter, with everyone else capable of moving up in the rotation.

Next year, there will be several spots to fill. You might simply say; "Let's worry about next year, next year", and that's a reasonable position to take.

 

My thought was that it would make sense to try to acquire a young quality arm now, as both insurance for this year, and to fill some of the holes that will need to be filled next season.

[Balta1701]

I agree entirely. This year, the staff is good enough that even if someone were lost, it wouldn't be that hard to find another pitcher to be the 5th starter, with everyone else capable of moving up in the rotation.

Next year, there will be several spots to fill. You might simply say; "Let's worry about next year, next year", and that's a reasonable position to take.

 

My thought was that it would make sense to try to acquire a young quality arm now, as both insurance for this year, and to fill some of the holes that will need to be filled next season.

The big flaw is...if acquiring the young arm hurts this team this season, they're likely to be in sell mode next offseason. It won't matter if they grabbed an ok young pitcher from somewhere in the Phillies org.

 

This season we're "All in"...so if we don't win the division and get playoff revenue, that means we lost the bet and we're going to have to cut back on salary.

 

The only way this would be the right move is if Milledge could be counted on to outperform Quentin for the season, and that's at best dubious.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Well, if it's so easy to come up with productive bats, then doesn't that argue for trading some offense for pitching depth?

You wouldn't argue that finding pitchers is also a simple task, would you?

 

I don't know who should be shopped, but it just seems there is not enough pitching depth this year, and going forward.

 

It doesn't seem that way. It is that way. But there's nothing that can realistically be done right now. A combination of poor drafting, the 1st commandment of thou shall not go overslot, and KW's gunslinger go for it every year mentality has left us with next to nothing internally. We're a mediocre 2011 season away from becoming the AL version of the Houston Astros. That's why this is by far the biggest season of the KW/Ozzie regime. It sounds simple. But it really is either win or fade away into the baseball abyss of suckage for the next 5 years.

[southsider2k5]

How many teams really have 6 or 7 major league ready pitchers for their starting rotation? There is a reason pitchers are in the minors. If they were good enough to be a solid starter at the major league level, they would be on a roster somewhere.

[bigruss]

How many teams really have 6 or 7 major league ready pitchers for their starting rotation? There is a reason pitchers are in the minors. If they were good enough to be a solid starter at the major league level, they would be on a roster somewhere.

It would be nice though to have a few at AA that are rising stars, if not contributing this year then ready to make the club next year.

 

Unfortunately, we'll be forced into signing a FA or trading for SP's next offseason, and we all know the price in either route to be ridiculous.

[Jordan4life_2007]

How many teams really have 6 or 7 major league ready pitchers for their starting rotation? There is a reason pitchers are in the minors. If they were good enough to be a solid starter at the major league level, they would be on a roster somewhere.

 

Reds, Rays, Braves, Red Sox, Blue Jays.

[LittleHurt05]

Reds, Rays, Braves, Red Sox, Blue Jays.

 

Say what? Their 5th starter position is up for grabs between Jesse Litsch & Marc Rzepczynski????

[Jordan4life_2007]

Say what? Their 5th starter position is up for grabs between Jesse Litsch & Marc Rzepczynski????

 

Yeah, I guess that was a stretch after the Marcum trade. I'm a big Deck McGuire fan, though. I wanted him or Drew Pomeranz with our first pick last year.

[IamtheHBOMB]

It doesn't seem that way. It is that way. But there's nothing that can realistically be done right now. A combination of poor drafting, the 1st commandment of thou shall not go overslot, and KW's gunslinger go for it every year mentality has left us with next to nothing internally. We're a mediocre 2011 season away from becoming the AL version of the Houston Astros. That's why this is by far the biggest season of the KW/Ozzie regime. It sounds simple. But it really is either win or fade away into the baseball abyss of suckage for the next 5 years.

 

 

Do you ever get sick of being this guy?

[southsider2k5]

Reds, Rays, Braves, Red Sox, Blue Jays.

 

So 4 out of 30. Yeah that is pretty much my point.

[bigruss]

Do you ever get sick of being this guy?

Sad thing is he is completely right, if the fans don't support the team, especially because they falter and don't make the playoffs, they will have a huge amount of money tied up in few players next year, all after a disappointing season that most likely lost the owners money.

 

After that the team would have to reevaluate their position, and unless JR wants to spend even more they may not be able to make any upgrades. This is because the system is so weak, and if Sale can't turn into a SP next year (which is a big IF, even if he wasn't going to be in the bullpen this year) than the Sox will have to trade pieces, MLB or Minor League, or sign expensive FAs. And although we have Morel and Viciedo ready to contribute, the system lacks players that will be ready to start next year, unless Flowers (who is my comeback player), Mitchell, etc show in big ways that they have overcome their flaws and are ready, which is pretty unlikely considering their setbacks and the overall % of failure of prospects.

[southsider2k5]

Sad thing is he is completely right, if the fans don't support the team, especially because they falter and don't make the playoffs, they will have a huge amount of money tied up in few players next year, all after a disappointing season that most likely lost the owners money.

 

After that the team would have to reevaluate their position, and unless JR wants to spend even more they may not be able to make any upgrades. This is because the system is so weak, and if Sale can't turn into a SP next year (which is a big IF, even if he wasn't going to be in the bullpen this year) than the Sox will have to trade pieces, MLB or Minor League, or sign expensive FAs. And although we have Morel and Viciedo ready to contribute, the system lacks players that will be ready to start next year, unless Flowers (who is my comeback player), Mitchell, etc show in big ways that they have overcome their flaws and are ready, which is pretty unlikely considering their setbacks and the overall % of failure of prospects.

 

If this team flops at the start of this year, there will be a fire sale to move everything with a contract. They can't afford to carry a bad team this year. They were in the early stages of it last year (shopping players around) when the team caught fire last year. With something like 20 to 25 million more in total payroll, it will be much quicker. We won't wait around to let a long crappy season happen. Guys will be dealt, and the next generation will be acquired quickly.

[bigruss]

If this team flops at the start of this year, there will be a fire sale to move everything with a contract. They can't afford to carry a bad team this year. They were in the early stages of it last year (shopping players around) when the team caught fire last year. With something like 20 to 25 million more in total payroll, it will be much quicker. We won't wait around to let a long crappy season happen. Guys will be dealt, and the next generation will be acquired quickly.

Problem is, they already looked into that scenario in the offseason and we're not pleased with the potential outcome of going that route.

 

Now if that situation does become true you have an even older AJ and Paulie, and FAs to be in Beuhrle and EJax, and an expensive Peavy. The pieces that still would have a ton of value is Danks and Thorton, besides that almost every player with a large contract wouldn't bring in that much, and what is brought in probably wouldn't be enough together with what we currently have in terms of young players to build a winner. It would take a few years of draft/development/trades to get the team back to contention.

[Jordan4life_2007]

 

Do you ever get sick of being this guy?

 

Honestly, no. I don't get my jollies from being the 'negative' guy. But as I get older, I can look at things from a realistic perspective. If you take off the black and white colored glasses, it's easy to see that potential disaster is possible if things don't work out this year. If you want to be happy and cheery all the time then go read a Scott Merkin Piece.

[southsider2k5]

Problem is, they already looked into that scenario in the offseason and we're not pleased with the potential outcome of going that route.

 

Now if that situation does become true you have an even older AJ and Paulie, and FAs to be in Beuhrle and EJax, and an expensive Peavy. The pieces that still would have a ton of value is Danks and Thorton, besides that almost every player with a large contract wouldn't bring in that much, and what is brought in probably wouldn't be enough together with what we currently have in terms of young players to build a winner. It would take a few years of draft/development/trades to get the team back to contention.

 

They didn't really look that hard at it. Buehrle and Jackson will be easy to dump as free agents to be. Unless he completely falls apart, teams will line up to have a couple months of Buehrle at only $5-7 million for the rest of the year headed into the stretch run. Jackson is the same way. You'll be able to get some nice parts for both of those guys. Danks and Thornton would be worth huge hauls if you wanted to go that route.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Yeah, I guess that was a stretch after the Marcum trade. I'm a big Deck McGuire fan, though. I wanted him or Drew Pomeranz with our first pick last year.

 

Man, that would have been sweeeet to draft a starting pitcher w/ our 1st pick last year.

[Balta1701]

Problem is, they already looked into that scenario in the offseason and we're not pleased with the potential outcome of going that route.

 

Now if that situation does become true you have an even older AJ and Paulie, and FAs to be in Beuhrle and EJax, and an expensive Peavy. The pieces that still would have a ton of value is Danks and Thorton, besides that almost every player with a large contract wouldn't bring in that much, and what is brought in probably wouldn't be enough together with what we currently have in terms of young players to build a winner. It would take a few years of draft/development/trades to get the team back to contention.

But...aside from 2 guys, Peavy and Teahen, the Sox could almost certainly get rid of all of those guys and get something back. Their contracts are not prohibitively bad.