Your 2011 starting 3B is...

[chetkincaid]

Can you provide some kind of evidence of this?

 

Exhibit #1...

 

 

 

[sayitaintso]

Can you provide some kind of evidence of this?

The year 1619 - Present...at least in the US

[chetkincaid]

Can you provide some kind of evidence of this?

 

 

Exhibit #2

 

[southsider2k5]

I hate to do this, but I think color plays a factor here. Now, I'm not accusing anyone here of this, but over time you happen to notice a pattern. When a young white player does these acts that have been referred to as showboating, people describe him as "passionate". When a young black player does them, he's called "cocky" or "arrogant" and accused of showboating. Would we really be having this same discussion if the player taking his helmet off after rounding third was Gordon Beckham? I seriously doubt it.

 

Personally, I think people getting worked up over Milledge taking his helmet off is ridiculous. Why don't we want our players to have a little bit of style and attitude to them? It's not like he's trying to be an asshole and rub it in the pitcher's face. It's just something he does. If the pitcher wants to be overly sensitive and take exception to him, that's his choice. I just don't see why any fan would actually be bothered by this.

 

You mean like AJ, our black catcher, who couldn't find a job because he had pissed off so many people with his attitude and actions?

[YASNY]

f*** that s***. His history is what calls this into play. I don't give a rat's ass what 'color' the player is, if he thinks he's bigger than the game, than the traditions, than what's acceptable of your peers ... then it's garbage. Prime example, was Ron Santo clicking his heels after every Cubs home win in '69. That was bush league crap.

[chetkincaid]

f*** that s***. His history is what calls this into play. I don't give a rat's ass what 'color' the player is, if he thinks he's bigger than the game, than the traditions, than what's acceptable of your peers ... then it's garbage. Prime example, was Ron Santo clicking his heels after every Cubs home win in '69. That was bush league crap.

 

 

I think some people are way too sensitive. If you're a pitcher and you don't like what Milledge does, then PITCH BETTER AND DON'T GIVE UP HOME RUNS!! If you can't do that, then tuff s*** try harder. As far as tradition goes, okay I get it. Baseball has traditions. But dammit this isn't the '50s when the majority of major leaguers looked and acted similar. This is 2011 and everybody isn't the same. AND HE'S NOT SHOWING UP THE OPPOSING TEAM OR PITCHER IN ANY FASHION!! So what's the big deal? Hell, if I were a pitcher, I'd be more pissed at any number of things that players do after watching a home run, like watching it sail over the wall or slapping hands with the first and third base coach or high fiving teamates at home plate. WTF do I care if you take your helmet off?

[Leonard Zelig]

Exhibit #1...

 

Now show me where the same author calls a black player arrogant and cocky. To bring race into this discussion is so off base. Posters here were all over Brian Anderson for being cocky.

[Leonard Zelig]

Exhibit #2

 

[flavum]

I've been one of the people that has called out Milledge about taking off his helmet, and I can assure you that if anyone on the Sox did that, no matter what they looked like, I would call them out on it. There's just no good reason to take the helmet off before you cross home plate. Walk off homer? Sure, go ahead. The game is over. But to be half way down the 3rd base line and removing the helmet to show the world that you just hit a homer is a bush league move. I don't care what color he is...and I'm not going to defend him just because he wears a White Sox uniform either.

 

Just in the name of fairness, I hate the bat throwing Pierzynski does too. I think he acts like an ass a lot of the time.

[Thad Bosley]

If the baseball world could put up with Sammy Sosa and that obnoxious hopping he used to do right out of the batter's box as he watched one of his homers leave the park, followed by taking those little baby steps around the bases and then the point-to-the-sky thing when he reached home plate, and oh yeah, the heart tapping and mugging to the camera show afterwards in the dugout, they ought to be ok with Lastings and his removing-of-the-helmet routine as he reaches home plate.

[chetkincaid]

Check out Dante Bichette's routine after he hit a home run. How about Mark McGwire and his gut punch? Never heard any complaining about either of those guys, have you?

 

There's nothing wrong with showing some emotion or celebrating. Taking your helmet off is not a big deal. Like I said, it'd be different if he were fist pumping, yelling, laughing and pointing at the pitcher while he's rounding the bases. But he's not. He's quietly removing his helmet.

 

 

 

 

[chetkincaid]

 

 

Comparing Greg Maddox to Grant Balfour? Really?

[Milkman delivers]

I hate to do this, but I think color plays a factor here. Now, I'm not accusing anyone here of this, but over time you happen to notice a pattern. When a young white player does these acts that have been referred to as showboating, people describe him as "passionate". When a young black player does them, he's called "cocky" or "arrogant" and accused of showboating. Would we really be having this same discussion if the player taking his helmet off after rounding third was Gordon Beckham? I seriously doubt it.

 

Personally, I think people getting worked up over Milledge taking his helmet off is ridiculous. Why don't we want our players to have a little bit of style and attitude to them? It's not like he's trying to be an asshole and rub it in the pitcher's face. It's just something he does. If the pitcher wants to be overly sensitive and take exception to him, that's his choice. I just don't see why any fan would actually be bothered by this.

 

I hate the race card as much as anybody, but I completely agree. I've been kind of saying this for a while by mentioning that people are confusing Milledge with Delmon Young.

[witesoxfan]

There is a distinct difference between hitting a very important home run in a clutch situation or striking someone out with the go ahead run on second base to end an inning than there is in the 3rd inning of a meaningless spring training game. Paul Konerko celebrated after he hit the grand slam because it put the White Sox up by 2 in game 2 of the WORLD SERIES. Grant Balfour went apes*** crazy when he struck out Orlando Cabrera in 2008 because it was in the PLAYOFFS. Of course there are other moments throughout a season that guys do this as well, but they are generally accepted because they are in pretty important situations. If not, a lot of times an opposing manager will take offense to it and said player will not be comfortable in the box the next time up.

 

If you hit a homer in the 4th inning of a regular season game, you should run the bases and cross home plate and then go slap hands with your teammates. Act like you've done it before.

 

 

[chetkincaid]

There is a distinct difference between hitting a very important home run in a clutch situation or striking someone out with the go ahead run on second base to end an inning than there is in the 3rd inning of a meaningless spring training game. Paul Konerko celebrated after he hit the grand slam because it put the White Sox up by 2 in game 2 of the WORLD SERIES. Grant Balfour went apes*** crazy when he struck out Orlando Cabrera in 2008 because it was in the PLAYOFFS. Of course there are other moments throughout a season that guys do this as well, but they are generally accepted because they are in pretty important situations. If not, a lot of times an opposing manager will take offense to it and said player will not be comfortable in the box the next time up.

 

If you hit a homer in the 4th inning of a regular season game, you should run the bases and cross home plate and then go slap hands with your teammates. Act like you've done it before.

 

Why is slapping hands with the first and third base coaches and your team mates acceptable and removing your helmet not?

 

Grant Balfour goes ape s*** ALL THE TIME! The guy is a freaking lunatic. But that's okay too?

[chetkincaid]

I hate the race card as much as anybody, but I completely agree. I've been kind of saying this for a while by mentioning that people are confusing Milledge with Delmon Young.

 

I've actually corrected someone who confused Milledge with Elijah Dukes.

 

Milledge is not a bad guy and you couldn't tell me that people get as upset if Lillibridge or Jordan Danks did something similar.

[YASNY]

Eh, I'm out of this discussion. Playing the race card was as bush league as the actions we have been discussing.

[witesoxfan]

Why is slapping hands with the first and third base coaches and your team mates acceptable and removing your helmet not?

 

Grant Balfour goes ape s*** ALL THE TIME! The guy is a freaking lunatic. But that's okay too?

 

It's about subtlety and sportsmanship. Removing your helmet has never been OK, nor has spending 10 seconds staring down a home run. But giving your coaches and teammates a five as you round the bases and come into the dugout? There is a huge difference.

 

I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

I also didn't say I cared for Grant Balfour's antics at all times. I specifically stated the moment he had in the ALDS against Cabrera. If he does it in the 7th inning in a game against Cleveland, I would say it's too much. It's difficult to do anything to retaliate or show him up though other than hitting him (his pitches, not his face). If he's in the game, that means it's close so you can't send a message to their hitters. If you get out of an inning, perhaps you can go over the top and show them how ridiculous it is. Perhaps you bring it to the umpires' attention and have them settle him down. Perhaps someone can tell him themselves, but then they're may end up starting a brawl, getting ejected and then suspended for it, and nobody wants to risk that.

 

The best thing you can do to avoid it is to beat him. That's not an easy thing to do.

[chetkincaid]

It's about subtlety and sportsmanship. Removing your helmet has never been OK, nor has spending 10 seconds staring down a home run. But giving your coaches and teammates a five as you round the bases and come into the dugout? There is a huge difference.

 

I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

Arguing for the sake of arguing? No. I think you're doing a poor job of explaining what's so wrong about it. No one can. The only thing people are saying is that it's against "tradition". Well so what? I'm sure that there are a LOT of things that go on now that probably fly in the face of this tradition. I wonder how older people feel about long dreads hanging out of a baseball cap? Or how about Brian Wilson's beard? or how about Jason Giambi's or Peter Moylan's arms covered with tattoos? You think those would have fallen in line with tradition 60 years ago?

 

The point that I'm trying to make is that if the only thing you can say is wrong with removing his helmet is that it's against tradition, then I say that things change and people aren't robots. And it's not like Milledge has announced to the world that "when I take my helmet off, it means that I'm the man and I own this pitcher". Hell, I don't know why he does it. He said it's his "thing". So be it. I don't feel like he's showing off.

 

The best thing you can do to avoid it is to beat him. That's not an easy thing to do.

 

EXACTLY!!! That's what I've been saying. If you're a pitcher and you don't like what Milledge does, then don't give up any home runs to him. If he hits one, then oh well. Pitch better next time.

 

 

[Chicago White Sox]

Eh, I'm out of this discussion. Playing the race card was as bush league as the actions we have been discussing.

Wow, I think your response was pretty "bush league". I made one post about an issue that clearly affects our society in numerous ways. I didn't realize it was absurd to suggest it might be affecting baseball too. I thought this was a message board where adults could talk about sensitive issues? If you didn't want to add to the debate, then why didn't you just ignore my post. I wasn't causing a stink or calling anyone out. There was no reason for a personal attack. Aren't you a mod? I would expect better from someone in your position.

[ptatc]

Arguing for the sake of arguing? No. I think you're doing a poor job of explaining what's so wrong about it. No one can. The only thing people are saying is that it's against "tradition". Well so what? I'm sure that there are a LOT of things that go on now that probably fly in the face of this tradition. I wonder how older people feel about long dreads hanging out of a baseball cap? Or how about Brian Wilson's beard? or how about Jason Giambi's or Peter Moylan's arms covered with tattoos? You think those would have fallen in line with tradition 60 years ago?

 

The point that I'm trying to make is that if the only thing you can say is wrong with removing his helmet is that it's against tradition, then I say that things change and people aren't robots. And it's not like Milledge has announced to the world that "when I take my helmet off, it means that I'm the man and I own this pitcher". Hell, I don't know why he does it. He said it's his "thing". So be it. I don't feel like he's showing off.

 

 

 

EXACTLY!!! That's what I've been saying. If you're a pitcher and you don't like what Milledge does, then don't give up any home runs to him. If he hits one, then oh well. Pitch better next time.

 

I don't think so much about who is doing it, it's more about the perception on who is judging it. I grew up in a small town in Iowa and was taught the "act like you've done it before." So things like taking off your helmet or the Grant Balfour going nuts in a regular game seem wrong to me. If it's a play to win a playoff or important game the it's exciting. I don't know your background but as you said before, it can be considered style by some others.

 

There will never but an agreement because there isn't a right or wrong. Some will consider it style and excitement others will consider it showboating and trying to separate himself from the team to show individual achievement. I don't think it is so much race as it is culture and upbringing. From my experience in professional sports you will always have these differences in fans and in the clubhouse. I'm sure some Sox players were down on him for doing it and others were laughing at it.

 

[YASNY]

Wow, I think your response was pretty "bush league". I made one post about an issue that clearly affects our society in numerous ways. I didn't realize it was absurd to suggest it might be affecting baseball too. I thought this was a message board where adults could talk about sensitive issues? If you didn't want to add to the debate, then why didn't you just ignore my post. I wasn't causing a stink or calling anyone out. There was no reason for a personal attack. Aren't you a mod? I would expect better from someone in your position.

 

Personal attack on you? Didn't you say I ignored your post? How the hell could I do both? If you happened to be one of them that played the race card, and I couldn't say one way or the other if you were because I don't remember. I don't go after the individual very often, just the thought behind the post. Personally, I found the playing of the race card as a personal insult. It insinuates that I am a racist, which I most certainly am not. If you took offense at me responding to that, there is not much I can say other than if the shoe fits then by all means, wear it.

[MEANS]

Morel officially named starter today

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/mlb/6201/brent-morel

Edited March 24, 2011 by MEANS

[SoIL]

Morel officially named starter today

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/mlb/6201/brent-morel

 

Sounds good. I hope he keeps it.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Sounds good. I hope he keeps it.

 

Cautiously optimistic he doesn't pull a '06 Brian Anderson. But I am excited to see what he can bring to the table. I don't need Longoria or Zimmerman. League average offense and solid defense will suffice.