Balta1701 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 QUOTE (daa84 @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 09:17 AM) Its pathetic that the best option for the 5th spot in the rotation is a guy we picked up off the scrap heap who has a career 4.49 ERA in the minors. Have you guys actually looked at the rest of the league and considered how many of those teams have exceptional options as a 5th starter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 08:19 AM) Have you guys actually looked at the rest of the league and considered how many of those teams have exceptional options as a 5th starter? i suppose i mean real upside options from within our own system...I agree that going with a young guy is never an exceptional, or even good option as the 5th starter. But at least other organizations have young guys who give them some sort of hope. I'd way rather be in a spot like the cubs where at least you can hope for a break out by a guy like cashner. At least there is upside with other teams. The most I am hoping for out of this Humber is a 5 or so ERA across the innings he can pitch, nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 QUOTE (daa84 @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 09:23 AM) i suppose i mean real upside options from within our own system...I agree that going with a young guy is never an exceptional, or even good option as the 5th starter. But at least other organizations have young guys who give them some sort of hope. I'd way rather be in a spot like the cubs where at least you can hope for a break out by a guy like cashner. At least there is upside with other teams. The most I am hoping for out of this Humber is a 5 or so ERA across the innings he can pitch, nothing more. Ok, you used the Cubs as an example. Here's their starting rotation depth chart. Zambrano Dempster Garza Wells Silva James Russell/Andrew Cashner You really look at that situation and think "Having to choose between Silva, some guy with an ERA over 7 on the spring, and Cashner in the 5th starter spot is a better situation than having Humber for a few games and Peavy if he ever gets healthy?" Even if you're pessimistic about Peavy's return to health and Humber's chances, that's crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Sometimes I read some of these posts and I just shake my head. There's no need to say anything because some of the so called fans are just over the top and there is no talking them. So I just scroll on past it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 08:19 AM) Have you guys actually looked at the rest of the league and considered how many of those teams have exceptional options as a 5th starter? Not even 5th in this situation, 6th really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 08:27 AM) Ok, you used the Cubs as an example. Here's their starting rotation depth chart. Zambrano Dempster Garza Wells Silva James Russell/Andrew Cashner You really look at that situation and think "Having to choose between Silva, some guy with an ERA over 7 on the spring, and Cashner in the 5th starter spot is a better situation than having Humber for a few games and Peavy if he ever gets healthy?" Even if you're pessimistic about Peavy's return to health and Humber's chances, that's crazy. I was trying to isolate the rest of the rotation, including peavy, in order to show the complete worthlessness of anything on th farm. My point is that we are likely going to end up using Humber in the rotation because of a complete lack of any internal option whatsoever. Of course I think 5 months of peavy + Humber for 1 is better than Cashner/silva. my simple point is that right now we have a complete inability to fill this spot with anything that can offer any hope from within our system , and IMO that is pathetic. Almost every other franchise (though im sure not all) would probably be able to run someone with more upside and potential than anything we can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 I'm going to post one sentence that might, just might, give you pause to think and also give you all a little historical perspective. Unless you are 90 years old or more, you have never seen a more successful, thrilling, accomplished era of White Sox baseball than the current era, going back to 2000. There it is. Now think about it, really think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whtsoxfan Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 And Bobby Jenks was a washout when he was with the Angels. Humper deserves a chance at least the White Sox thinks so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 QUOTE (whtsoxfan @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 11:08 AM) And Bobby Jenks was a washout when he was with the Angels. Humper deserves a chance at least the White Sox thinks so... Humper? What do you know that we don't know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whtsoxfan Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 QUOTE (YASNY @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 11:09 AM) Humper? What do you know that we don't know? My bad typo HUMBER..... you get the point Geeze! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 QUOTE (whtsoxfan @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 11:13 AM) My bad typo HUMBER..... you get the point Geeze! I wasn't picking on you. It was just too damn good to pass up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 QUOTE (daa84 @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 10:52 AM) . my simple point is that right now we have a complete inability to fill this spot with anything that can offer any hope from within our system , and IMO that is pathetic. Almost every other franchise (though im sure not all) would probably be able to run someone with more upside and potential than anything we can. I'm not saying our system is good or that I'm happy with Humber. But if you looked around the league at all the 5th starters being thrown out there, some of the old, bad veterans that teams are gambling on, I don't think that last spot in the rotation is as easy to fill from within as you make it sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Humber and Milledge are both garbage to this point; it's what they've proven to be. At least the positions they are fighting for don't matter too much overall. No big deal if these chewed-up scraps make the team. Or Lillibridge for that matter- it's all the same big can a garbage with different levels of optimism poured on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 11:29 AM) Humber and Milledge are both garbage to this point; it's what they've proven to be. At least the positions they are fighting for don't matter too much overall. No big deal if these chewed-up scraps make the team. Or Lillibridge for that matter- it's all the same big can a garbage with different levels of optimism poured on top. At least Milledge has talent. Lastings just never got it together. Humber's not all that talented. He's like a better version of Lance Broadway. High pick and overrated by the team that drafted him. Edited March 23, 2011 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 12:31 PM) At least Milledge has talent. Lastings just never got it together. Humber's not all that talented. He's like a better version of Lance Broadway. High pick and overrated by the team that drafted him. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 11:25 AM) I'm not saying our system is good or that I'm happy with Humber. But if you looked around the league at all the 5th starters being thrown out there, some of the old, bad veterans that teams are gambling on, I don't think that last spot in the rotation is as easy to fill from within as you make it sound. He's not talking about making it easy to fill, he's talking about being able to fill it with someone who may have some upside. Philip Humber has virtually no upside whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 11:54 AM) He's not talking about making it easy to fill, he's talking about being able to fill it with someone who may have some upside. Philip Humber has virtually no upside whatsoever. Well we know it's physically impossible to pitch worse than most people on here are predicting, so I guess there's some upside there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 I don't agree with this whole "ignoring somebody is juvenile" argument. I have one person on ignore, and that's greg. There is honestly no reason to not have him on ignore. He brings nothing to the table but rambling, incoherent posts with no basis in reality or statistical evidence. He's Soxtalk's version of the insane homeless man on the corner yelling at everybody that passes by him. Do you ignore that person? Yes, we all do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 QUOTE (daa84 @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 07:17 AM) this is less about Humber than it is the atrocity that is the farm system right now. Theres absolutely nothing close to being ready on the bump that is even half promising....I don't have a problem really with the way kenny trades prospects, as long as the efflux is balanced by a solid influx of new talent. unfortunately, while we have produced a couple good prospects from recent drafts, there is absolutely 0 depth. Sale is a reliever now, and Hudson is gone. Its pathetic that the best option for the 5th spot in the rotation is a guy we picked up off the scrap heap who has a career 4.49 ERA in the minors. Did somebody say bad farm system? That's like my personal bat signal. Yes, it speaks volumes to the dearth of talent/depth and fundamental flaws in drafting philosophy. Phillip Humber was DFA'd by both the A's and Royals in a span of like 3 weeks. When he's your absolute best option to fill what's destined to be a gaping hole (Like Ozzie, I assume nothing anymore when it comes to Peavy. Until he's on the mound pitching in a game that counts, he's a ghost) in a rotation for a team that's expected to compete. When you have to run Randy Williams and his historic-like suckfest, as Kalapse broke down for us, out there even as often as we did because you don't have a single competent arm in the minors to even hold down a loogy role, yes, there are major problems. And now I'm about to throw up because I typed the name Randy Williams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Hilarious typo was HILARIOUS! If all goes well, we'll be looking at 1-2 Humber starts before Just Fing Pitch comes back for a month. Then, when some other injury comes up, we'll be back to Humber or in a position to trade for someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 10:29 AM) Humber and Milledge are both garbage to this point; it's what they've proven to be. At least the positions they are fighting for don't matter too much overall. No big deal if these chewed-up scraps make the team. Or Lillibridge for that matter- it's all the same big can a garbage with different levels of optimism poured on top. At least with Milledge he's shown some semblance of the talent, though obviously sporadic, that showed why he was regarded so highly at one point. And he's also 4 years younger than Humber. Big difference between 25 and 29 in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 There are people that find flaws in everything enjoy your lives.Walk around noticing the worst in everything, thnk about how s***ty something can be. Go to a game and only have fun if your team wins. Go to a game and only have fun if your team wins easily. But even then, figure out what went wrong and how easily they could have lost. Farm systems haven't been relevant since 1970. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Tex @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 11:57 AM) There are people that find flaws in everything enjoy your lives.Walk around noticing the worst in everything, thnk about how s***ty something can be. Go to a game and only have fun if your team wins. Go to a game and only have fun if your team wins easily. But even then, figure out what went wrong and how easily they could have lost. Farm systems haven't been relevant since 1970. The Braves' 15 division titles since '91 vehemently disagree with this assertion. I'd say the Twins of the last decade don't agree much. Or how about the Red Sox? Or do Lester, Buchholz, Pedroia, Youk, Bard and Papelbon not qualify? Phillies won't agree, either. Edited March 23, 2011 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 01:07 PM) The Braves' 15 division titles since '91 vehemently disagree with this assertion. I'd say the Twins of the last decade don't agree much. Or how about the Red Sox? Or do Lester, Buchholz, Pedroia, Youk, Bard and Papelbon not qualify? Phillies won't agree, either. They had to go through 10 years of awful teams to finally get it right and build the talent. Even then Maddux was a FA and Smoltz was a trade with Detroit for Doyle Alexander. Where would the team have been without them? I, personally, do not want to go through a decade of awful teams. The Phillies two best pitchers are trades as well. I think the Giants are a better example if you want to use the farm team arguement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 QUOTE (ptatc @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 02:56 PM) The Phillies two best pitchers are trades as well. I think the Giants are a better example if you want to use the farm team arguement. OTOH, just about everything in the Giants lineup except their catcher was acquired from somewhere else last year. Free agents, people released by other teams, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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