From the old guys . . .

[Texsox]

Some of the guys around here with 20+ years following the team have had some side chats about the expectations of the newer fans. Fans in their twenties have arguable witnessed the greatest streak in White Sox history since the 1910's. Fans under thirty rightfully expect this team to compete for a world series every year. Fans in their 40s and 50s have much different expectations.

 

Winning a world series should be the goal of every mlb team. But as a fan to expect that from your team, you are setting yourself up for frustration year after year. The most successful franchise, the Yankees average winning a ws every four years. Eight franchises have never won a world series, five have never been to a world series. The second most successful team, the Cards, average a world series win every 10 years. The sixth most successful, the Reds or Pirates, a win every 22 years, and they may never win another one.

 

Teams win ws when things go right. No one has amassed a team that couldn't be beat. No matter the level of talent, teams win the ws with a little luck, guys having career years, balls falling their way. Try to focus on what can go right for the team to win. There are hundreds of ways for the team to fail, hell only one team is going to win the ws, all the rest either won't get there or lose once they are there. Stuff will go wrong on every one of those teams. It isn't that hard, it doesn't prove your baseball acumen, to figure out what can go wrong. Guys are getting too old, guys don't have enough experience, guys never did it before, it just isn't that hard to find the weak spots.

 

IMHO, to survive as a baseball fan to the ripe old age of BigEdWalsh, YASNY, or FlaSoxxJim you have to be a fan of the game. You have to enjoy a baseball game, win or lose. Be a fan for 30 years and your team will lose over 2,000 games. Attend a lot of games and your team will probably lose close to half of them. Find something to get excited about. Enjoy the sights, the sounds, the smell of the ball park. Baseball is an awesome game. If you can't watch a well played game where your team loses without throwing s*** and being upset, you're killing yourself for nothing.

 

The old guys around here have sat through many a White Sox season where we knew the team had zero chance of making the playoffs. We came away with some great memories. People we met, things we did, great experiences at the games. We saw some great plays from terrible players, we watched some interesting characters. A good season was when a team was competitive until the Bears started playing. Relax and watch the season unfold. Be a fan, look for what could go right. Let your expectations rise, this team, if things go their way, will be in the hunt all summer.

Get out of the gloomy shadows of negativity and spend some time in the sunshine thinking about all that is right with the 2011 Sox. If things go to hell, there will be plenty of time to wail and cry. But April is for optimism.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Nice post. That's the way I've always felt. Every player who has looked good during spring training I think can be a star even though in my heart I know White Sox stars are not plentiful.I hope for 18+ wins for all our starters though the likelihood of that happening is closer to 0% than 100%.

 

We all fall prey to negativity, even Tex, who I saw didn't like the way Milledge slightly bailed out on a curve when so many good things were happening during last nights game against the D'backs.

The way Lillibridge and Milledge both had good offensive and defensive nights was fun to see. TCQ batting over .500 + power in the last 8 or 9 games also fun to watch.

 

 

[YASNY]

Great post, Tex.

[caulfield12]

Unfortunately, I'm in this City Slickers/Space Cowboys club, lol.

 

41.

 

For someone who suffered through the 80's and half of the 90's after the strike, I've become a lot more tolerant, for lack of a better word, than I used to be about the White Sox, and 75% of it's related to 2005 and the World Series championship.

 

Sports fans, in general, are definitely becoming more and more impatient. It's all a matter of perspective. Seeing Yankees and Red Sox fans upset because their team has "only" won one or two in the last decade pretty much amuses me.

 

Maybe it's because I don't have children, sometimes it takes that for some here to get some perspective about the bigger picture in life. One doesn't have to spend 14 months in Haiti like Sean Penn to appreciate the world at large, but sometimes taking a step away from things can be helpful.

 

I've found that in recent years, I've posted a lot less in the offseason than I used to. Part of it's simply my dislike for arguing with people who throw 25 different abbreviations and acronyms for statistical formulas that have made baseball forums more and more combative over the last decade or so. Baseball, of all the major sports, is more driven by the numbers than any other, and yet I've found that stories and memories are what make it wonderful...remembering the sound of the ball off Bo Jackson's bat or Old Comiskey Park, the way it just felt so big when I was a little kid.

 

If it wasn't for the Minnesota Twins, I would have had a much happier life this past decade, haha. For some reason, I've never been able to be AS happy when the Cubs lose (although 2003 was sweet) as when the White Sox win. In the end, this is the greatest time of the year, with hope springing eternal and the Final Four approaching along with the NHL and NBA playoffs.

 

I really hope we can win the ALCD, simply because failure PROBABLY means some time of inevitable rebuilding project which Ozzie, KW and JR might not have the patience for.

 

In reality, I wish I could feel as optimistic about the future of the United States as I do about the White Sox. I would gladly sit through another 90 loss season IF the trade was that unemployment would return back to 4-5% and there was some sense of hope that the kids graduating from universities these days would have a better life than their parents and grandparents enjoyed. Having lived outside the US for much of the last five years, I've definitely gained more appreciation for how much I miss baseball (that's why I have subscribed to MLB Gameday Audio during that time)...but also how beautiful the game is, how in sports something new can happen every game that you've never seen before (thinking of Gonzaga/Pitt last weekend).

 

When things don't go well, my escape has always been movies or books. The most important thing in life is to have things you feel passionate about, and the White Sox have definitely been there in the Top 5 throughout. The only thing I would share is that dying with wins and losses over a 162 game season....it's just not worth it, not when you can spend time with your family, travel, go to church, take care of those less fortunate (or just read a Joe Posnanski article). We can always be thankful we're not Cubs fans! But maybe I'll be a little jealous for that feeling they might all experience one day when their team finally wins a World Series...at least I experienced that in my lifetime, and how many family members (I'm thinking of my Uncle Frank who introduced me to the White Sox in the late 70's...my other uncle on my mother's side was a Cubs fan) never lived to see the White Sox win it all.

 

[Middle Buffalo]

Some of the guys around here with 20+ years following the team have had some side chats about the expectations of the newer fans. Fans in their twenties have arguable witnessed the greatest streak in White Sox history since the 1910's. Fans under thirty rightfully expect this team to compete for a world series every year. Fans in their 40s and 50s have much different expectations.

 

Winning a world series should be the goal of every mlb team. But as a fan to expect that from your team, you are setting yourself up for frustration year after year. The most successful franchise, the Yankees average winning a ws every four years. Eight franchises have never won a world series, five have never been to a world series. The second most successful team, the Cards, average a world series win every 10 years. The sixth most successful, the Reds or Pirates, a win every 22 years, and they may never win another one.

 

Teams win ws when things go right. No one has amassed a team that couldn't be beat. No matter the level of talent, teams win the ws with a little luck, guys having career years, balls falling their way. Try to focus on what can go right for the team to win. There are hundreds of ways for the team to fail, hell only one team is going to win the ws, all the rest either won't get there or lose once they are there. Stuff will go wrong on every one of those teams. It isn't that hard, it doesn't prove your baseball acumen, to figure out what can go wrong. Guys are getting too old, guys don't have enough experience, guys never did it before, it just isn't that hard to find the weak spots.

 

IMHO, to survive as a baseball fan to the ripe old age of BigEdWalsh, YASNY, or FlaSoxxJim you have to be a fan of the game. You have to enjoy a baseball game, win or lose. Be a fan for 30 years and your team will lose over 2,000 games. Attend a lot of games and your team will probably lose close to half of them. Find something to get excited about. Enjoy the sights, the sounds, the smell of the ball park. Baseball is an awesome game. If you can't watch a well played game where your team loses without throwing s*** and being upset, you're killing yourself for nothing.

 

The old guys around here have sat through many a White Sox season where we knew the team had zero chance of making the playoffs. We came away with some great memories. People we met, things we did, great experiences at the games. We saw some great plays from terrible players, we watched some interesting characters. A good season was when a team was competitive until the Bears started playing. Relax and watch the season unfold. Be a fan, look for what could go right. Let your expectations rise, this team, if things go their way, will be in the hunt all summer.

Get out of the gloomy shadows of negativity and spend some time in the sunshine thinking about all that is right with the 2011 Sox. If things go to hell, there will be plenty of time to wail and cry. But April is for optimism.

Grandpa Tex and his wooden teeth have spoken.

[Milkman delivers]

I appreciate the sentiment, but I'm so tired of this "sage wisdom" from "wiser" fans because they're older. I also noticed that none of those posters you mentioned even live in the state, so maybe they go to 1 or 2 games a year. I'm not saying that makes anyone a better fan, which I DO believe is the theme of this thread and your overall history of posting, but I'm not going to take advice on how to enjoy a game from someone who hardly ever goes to any. Trust me, I thoroughly enjoy going to and watching games despite my pessimistic attitude.

[YASNY]

I appreciate the sentiment, but I'm so tired of this "sage wisdom" from "wiser" fans because they're older. I also noticed that none of those posters you mentioned even live in the state, so maybe they go to 1 or 2 games a year. I'm not saying that makes anyone a better fan, which I DO believe is the theme of this thread and your overall history of posting, but I'm not going to take advice on how to enjoy a game from someone who hardly ever goes to any. Trust me, I thoroughly enjoy going to and watching games despite my pessimistic attitude.

 

Well by all means, keep being a pessimist. That is your right. In the meantime, I'm going to enjoy being a Sox fan.

[Milkman delivers]

Well by all means, keep being a pessimist. That is your right. In the meantime, I'm going to enjoy being a Sox fan.

 

See, there it is. You act like we can't enjoy games because of our pessimistic nature. But I'll tell you what, I'll enjoy the 30+ games I attend this year. I hope you have as much fun at the 1 you attend and the others you watch from 1,500 miles away.

Edited March 26, 2011 by Milkman delivers

[YASNY]

See, there it is. You act like we can't enjoy games because of our pessimistic nature. But I'll tell you what, I'll enjoy the 30+ games I attend this year. I hope you have as much fun at the 1 you attend and the others you watch from 1,500 miles away.

 

Yeah, there it is. I do what I can. I don't believe that makes me any less of a fan.

[DirtySox]

It reeks of condescension and old folk in here.

[YASNY]

It reeks of condescension and old folk in here.

 

If you don't like the thread, stay out of it. It's not that difficult.

[caulfield12]

Being older has nothing to with being smarter...although, good judgement is a result of experience, and experience is usually a result of bad judgement.

 

Well, you get the idea.

 

The idea of some kinds of "means testing" of Sox fans is a little bit ridiculous. So automatically, the best fan is the one who has attended the most games in person? I guess that guy who has gone to 1,500 consecutive Kentucky basketball games since 1947 is the greatest sports fan in the world then. It's about as logical as requiring only the fans here who can afford to send $100,000 to Jerry Reinsdorf to become "minority owners"...and creating a website where only those fortunate fans could post. Let's face it, in this economy, reality is that making any Sox fans feel guilty (many of those with families) for not buying season tickets or supporting the team as they deem fit, that's a little messed up.

 

I listen to as many Sox games as I can, and a lot of the games I've listened to have started between 1 am and 3 am in the morning. I would actually prefer to subscribe to mlb.com for the entire baseball package, but the countries I've lived in (until now in South Korea) wouldn't support the live streaming because of bandwith limitations.

 

 

Edited March 26, 2011 by caulfield12

[Milkman delivers]

Yeah, there it is. I do what I can. I don't believe that makes me any less of a fan.

 

And being pessimistic doesn't make me any less of a fan. In fact, I'd say that the amount of time I dedicate to this forum and the money I spend at games make me a pretty damn good fan.

[Milkman delivers]

It reeks of condescension and old folk in here.

 

Haha! Bravo, my friend.

[YASNY]

And being pessimistic doesn't make me any less of a fan. In fact, I'd say that the amount of time I dedicate to this forum and the money I spend at games make me a pretty damn good fan.

 

I won't argue this point.

[knightni]

After struggling through being a fan in the late 80s, competing for a division now every year is a great thing.

[Texsox]

Well some people as they get older will not be any smarter and have nothing more to share than what they already know now.

 

And Milkman, of course you can enjoy being a pessimist. I imagine for some people always looking at the down side is fun. Figuring out how everything can go to hell makes you all smiley. I couldn't stand 30 years of that, but knock yourself out. You will be right way more than wrong. And I'll bet in thirty years you won't have anything to share from being a fan.

[Texsox]

I appreciate the sentiment, but I'm so tired of this "sage wisdom" from "wiser" fans because they're older. I also noticed that none of those posters you mentioned even live in the state, so maybe they go to 1 or 2 games a year. I'm not saying that makes anyone a better fan, which I DO believe is the theme of this thread and your overall history of posting, but I'm not going to take advice on how to enjoy a game from someone who hardly ever goes to any. Trust me, I thoroughly enjoy going to and watching games despite my pessimistic attitude.

 

 

And being pessimistic doesn't make me any less of a fan. In fact, I'd say that the amount of time I dedicate to this forum and the money I spend at games make me a pretty damn good fan.

 

Yep, we live out of state. No spoon fed Sox news on local stations. No easy drive to a game. Instead we have to work at following the team. We all grew up attending lots of games. Now we have to plan vacations around attending Sox games. I'll bet my trip to attend two games cost me about as much as your 30 games.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Haha! Bravo, my friend.

You know it's not about old vs. young or who is the better fan. If that's what you think then you miss the point entirely and truly do show your immaturity. Is it wrong for a person ,be it an older or younger fan to want his fellow Sox fan to "take it easy" or " stop and smell the roses" ? Sure this is the kind of advice you might hear more often from granpa. It's just advice about enjoying life and meant to be a kind word towards the young and pessimistic. Would you tell your grandfather , who has always been kind to you to go, f*** yourself you condescending old coot" because he wants the best for you ? I hope not , but that's the feedback I'm hearing in here and really there's no need for it.

[gatnom]

I would just like to say that you can still enjoy following this team even if you're a "pessimist." Being able to realize that maybe not everything the organization does is automatically good and right in no way affects my ability to watch and enjoy my team.

 

 

 

[Dick Allen]

You know it's not about old vs. young or who is the better fan. If that's what you think then you miss the point entirely and truly do show your immaturity. Is it wrong for a person ,be it an older or younger fan to want his fellow Sox fan to "take it easy" or " stop and smell the roses" ? Sure this is the kind of advice you might hear more often from granpa. It's just advice about enjoying life and meant to be a kind word towards the young and pessimistic. Would you tell your grandfather , who has always been kind to you to go, f*** yourself you condescending old coot" because he wants the best for you ? I hope not , but that's the feedback I'm hearing in here and really there's no need for it.

Why do you have to be optimistic about everything to enjoy something? One of the biggest draws of baseball is debate. Now with more stats than every, the debates are even more plentiful. It makes it even better IMO. I just don't understand someone thinking another cannot enjoy a baseball season because they don't like who the 5th starter is or who made the roster as the 25th guy. To blindly say everything is great, every move was perfect....isn't that exactly what we rip people who frequent the park on the other side of town for constantly?

 

I guess what I'm saying is I know I don't have to agree with everything KW and JR and Ozzie do, and think every player on the Sox is as good as they say he is to enjoy White Sox baseball. Not by a longshot. I wouldn't be considered a younger fan on this board, maybe on others, but I was a fan in the very lean years. My expectations are a lot higher than they used to be. Its easier now to make the playoffs than ever before, especially in the AL Central and especially with all the built in advantages the White Sox have over their division foes. If they were swapped out with Toronto and sent to the AL East, my expectations would obviously be a lot lower. But 86-76 in the AL Central isn't all that great, its decent, but 36 games against KC and Cleveland waters that down.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Why do you have to be optimistic about everything to enjoy something? One of the biggest draws of baseball is debate. Now with more stats than every, the debates are even more plentiful. It makes it even better IMO. I just don't understand someone thinking another cannot enjoy a baseball season because they don't like who the 5th starter is or who made the roster as the 25th guy. To blindly say everything is great, every move was perfect....isn't that exactly what we rip people who frequent the park on the other side of town for constantly?

 

I guess what I'm saying is I know I don't have to agree with everything KW and JR and Ozzie do, and think every player on the Sox is as good as they say he is to enjoy White Sox baseball. Not by a longshot. I wouldn't be considered a younger fan on this board, maybe on others, but I was a fan in the very lean years. My expectations are a lot higher than they used to be. Its easier now to make the playoffs than ever before, especially in the AL Central and especially with all the built in advantages the White Sox have over their division foes. If they were swapped out with Toronto and sent to the AL East, my expectations would obviously be a lot lower. But 86-76 in the AL Central isn't all that great, its decent, but 36 games against KC and Cleveland waters that down.

I never said you had to be optimistic to enjoy it. I'm just thinking in the broader perspective of life. It doesn't always have to be us vs. them, young vs. old etc. To me Tex was just saying enjoy life, enjoy baseball not picking a fight but it seems some people took it in that way.

 

When you have children you don't want to raise them to trust everyone nor do you want them to be a**holes to everyone. I didn't see him as being condescending but the comments he got back showed that some people just like to pick a fight saying "old" and condescending". All he was saying is April is the time to be optimistic and I think we can all agree we like this team. Is it perfect ? No. What team is ? Do we think we have the best lineup or pitching staff in baseball ? No , we can't compete for the best talent in baseball with those teams willing to outspend everyone.

 

Like Hawk says, just sit back relax and strap it down. Healthy debate is fine but a lot of people can't seem to debate without it degenerating into name calling or verbal abuse of some sort.

[Rooftop Shots]

I won't get in the middle of the debate, but since this was about an "Old Guys Sox fan" thread, I thought that I would post a picture of what one of my friends said that I, "Rooftop" looked like when I turned 50. (I owe him a "payback" BIG TIME!!)

[Texsox]

Thanks Cali, I appreciate the comments and that is true, I wasn't trying to be condesending. But after really thinking about it, it wasn't my place to suggest to anyone to enjoy life. If people wish to be unhappy and pessimistic, that's cool. And they found other pessimists to hang with. This team is one of the best ones that has wore a Sox uniform in the past 30 years. Capable, if things go right, of winning a championship. That isn't blind optimism, that's looking at roster from 1970 forward. In those forty years, find me ten Sox teams with better lineups. If y'all want to concentrate on the problems, look for flaws, figure out how this team will suck, knock yourself out

[Milkman delivers]

I never said you had to be optimistic to enjoy it. I'm just thinking in the broader perspective of life. It doesn't always have to be us vs. them, young vs. old etc. To me Tex was just saying enjoy life, enjoy baseball not picking a fight but it seems some people took it in that way.

 

When you have children you don't want to raise them to trust everyone nor do you want them to be a**holes to everyone. I didn't see him as being condescending but the comments he got back showed that some people just like to pick a fight saying "old" and condescending". All he was saying is April is the time to be optimistic and I think we can all agree we like this team. Is it perfect ? No. What team is ? Do we think we have the best lineup or pitching staff in baseball ? No , we can't compete for the best talent in baseball with those teams willing to outspend everyone.

 

Like Hawk says, just sit back relax and strap it down. Healthy debate is fine but a lot of people can't seem to debate without it degenerating into name calling or verbal abuse of some sort.

 

Are you kidding? Go read some of the posts that Tex makes. They are always condescending. And just to clarify, I'm going to take a few quotes just from this thread to show it.

 

It isn't that hard, it doesn't prove your baseball acumen, to figure out what can go wrong.

 

IMHO, to survive as a baseball fan to the ripe old age of BigEdWalsh, YASNY, or FlaSoxxJim you have to be a fan of the game.

 

If you can't watch a well played game where your team loses without throwing s*** and being upset

 

Be a fan, look for what could go right.

 

Get out of the gloomy shadows of negativity and spend some time in the sunshine

 

If things go to hell, there will be plenty of time to wail and cry.

 

Well some people as they get older will not be any smarter and have nothing more to share than what they already know now.

 

I imagine for some people always looking at the down side is fun. Figuring out how everything can go to hell makes you all smiley.

 

And I'll bet in thirty years you won't have anything to share from being a fan.

 

Instead we have to work at following the team.

 

But after really thinking about it, it wasn't my place to suggest to anyone to enjoy life.

 

I mean, come on. This is his MO. He acts like he's being incredibly civil, but he's constantly taking shots at someone on this board and being condescending.

 

You know it's not about old vs. young or who is the better fan. If that's what you think then you miss the point entirely and truly do show your immaturity. Is it wrong for a person ,be it an older or younger fan to want his fellow Sox fan to "take it easy" or " stop and smell the roses" ? Sure this is the kind of advice you might hear more often from granpa. It's just advice about enjoying life and meant to be a kind word towards the young and pessimistic. Would you tell your grandfather , who has always been kind to you to go, f*** yourself you condescending old coot" because he wants the best for you ? I hope not , but that's the feedback I'm hearing in here and really there's no need for it.

 

If you had read my first post, you would have noticed that I said that going to more games doesn't make me a better fan. I was using the argument that someone can be a pessimist and still support the team and be a real fan. Tex (and others) for years have been saying, either in a straight-forward or roundabout way, that being a pessimist makes someone less of a fan. Since being a pessimist is considered by many as being less of a fan, I used the argument that I have acted as a fan at the games much more often than he. It was an equally absurd argument, but I believe it got the point across that someone's fandom can't be questioned by such measures.

Edited March 26, 2011 by Milkman delivers