2011-2012 NCAA Basketball Thread

[Jenksismyhero]

I was firmly in the camp that thought Thomas should let him coach out the season. But after hearing about that press conference last night, how do you let him stick around? How are the players gonna feel to be around him? You know it's bad when the Score spends a huge chunk of time in the morning talking Illini basketball.

 

Agreed. Let McClain show is coaching expertise (none).

 

In all seriousness though, the whole thing is just sad. The guy never had a chance with the fan base. No one wanted him, even when he succeeded beyond what Kruger and Self were able to do (the whole line about Self's recruits is bulls***. He coached that team up from borderline good to great). He probably should have been fired a few seasons ago to save the embarrassment both of him and the program. Or at the very least they should have told him take that job at Oklahoma last year, or wherever else he got a job offer (wasn't Oregon one a few seasons back?). Losing to teams like Penn State and Northwestern year in and year out is just not acceptable. The fact that he's been on the hotseat for a few years - you just can't coach that way, as he admitted last night. Too much pressure because every loss gets you that much closer to losing all support. So instead of losing early to win later, he wanted to do everything he could to win in the present. And you could see that with his refusal to play younger guys because they make mistakes, so instead he plays guys like Sam who won't turn the ball over, but probably won't be good enough to win either.

 

He needs a fresh start, as does the program itself. I still see a gigantic problem with expectations though. All those highly ranked recruits the next few years? Most are Weber guys, including any chance they had with Parker (who according to Klee, is still very interested in Illinois). So the program is back to being stuck in a recruiting rut, no matter who they bring in. When the new coach fails to land big recruits in his first season or two, get ready for the same boo birds that were all over Weber for not being able to land anyone.

 

f***ing sucks, the whole thing.

[LittleHurt05]

Agreed. Let McClain show is coaching expertise (none).

 

In all seriousness though, the whole thing is just sad. The guy never had a chance with the fan base. No one wanted him, even when he succeeded beyond what Kruger and Self were able to do (the whole line about Self's recruits is bulls***. He coached that team up from borderline good to great). He probably should have been fired a few seasons ago to save the embarrassment both of him and the program. Or at the very least they should have told him take that job at Oklahoma last year, or wherever else he got a job offer (wasn't Oregon one a few seasons back?). Losing to teams like Penn State and Northwestern year in and year out is just not acceptable. The fact that he's been on the hotseat for a few years - you just can't coach that way, as he admitted last night. Too much pressure because every loss gets you that much closer to losing all support. So instead of losing early to win later, he wanted to do everything he could to win in the present. And you could see that with his refusal to play younger guys because they make mistakes, so instead he plays guys like Sam who won't turn the ball over, but probably won't be good enough to win either.

 

He needs a fresh start, as does the program itself. I still see a gigantic problem with expectations though. All those highly ranked recruits the next few years? Most are Weber guys, including any chance they had with Parker (who according to Klee, is still very interested in Illinois). So the program is back to being stuck in a recruiting rut, no matter who they bring in. When the new coach fails to land big recruits in his first season or two, get ready for the same boo birds that were all over Weber for not being able to land anyone.

 

f***ing sucks, the whole thing.

 

I get your point here, but after 2005 he could have easily gotten the fanbase on his side. But then he recruited awfully following the NC game and within 3 years was losing at home to Miami-Ohio & Tennesse State.

[IlliniKrush]

Agreed. Let McClain show is coaching expertise (none).

 

In all seriousness though, the whole thing is just sad. The guy never had a chance with the fan base. No one wanted him, even when he succeeded beyond what Kruger and Self were able to do (the whole line about Self's recruits is bulls***. He coached that team up from borderline good to great). He probably should have been fired a few seasons ago to save the embarrassment both of him and the program. Or at the very least they should have told him take that job at Oklahoma last year, or wherever else he got a job offer (wasn't Oregon one a few seasons back?). Losing to teams like Penn State and Northwestern year in and year out is just not acceptable. The fact that he's been on the hotseat for a few years - you just can't coach that way, as he admitted last night. Too much pressure because every loss gets you that much closer to losing all support. So instead of losing early to win later, he wanted to do everything he could to win in the present. And you could see that with his refusal to play younger guys because they make mistakes, so instead he plays guys like Sam who won't turn the ball over, but probably won't be good enough to win either.

 

He needs a fresh start, as does the program itself. I still see a gigantic problem with expectations though. All those highly ranked recruits the next few years? Most are Weber guys, including any chance they had with Parker (who according to Klee, is still very interested in Illinois). So the program is back to being stuck in a recruiting rut, no matter who they bring in. When the new coach fails to land big recruits in his first season or two, get ready for the same boo birds that were all over Weber for not being able to land anyone.

 

f***ing sucks, the whole thing.

Agreed, this is a sad situation. I know it's a message board and we're all supposed to be fire-breathing assholes, but I feel bad for Bruce and the end of the road here. Last night you were listening to a man defeated. He knew it was the end. It's hard to imagine what he's feeling, don't think any of us have been in such a situation. I'm not terribly upset with his comments. Did he throw guys under the bus? Sure. But for years he's been protecting dumb, lazy players, and he finally called a spade a spade. And it's not like it was crazy, he was just defeated and was honest. I mean what exactly did he say that was incorrect or so out of line? Leonard was a dog, he's got a terrible attitude, Paul plays like an idiot (that last play is not what was drawn up at all, Paul was selfish and just stupid), DJ failed to do anything on offense. So on and so on. It IS sad that Abrams is your leader.

 

Now yes, he recruited those lazy, dumb, etc, players. So yes, it's the end of the road. Ultimately, it's on him. I'm sad to see him go. Not in the I want him to stay kind of way, just sad that it's coming to an end. Bruce is a good guy, he ran a clean program (nothing tells me otherwise), he works very hard and cares a lot about the team and the university. But yes, the success recently wasn't there, so this is what will happen. Doesn't mean it isn't a sad time, IMO.

 

I don't see the point in firing him now just because of those comments. He's not the first coach to call out a player or a team, whether that coach was on the hot seat or not. Will it be awkward? Sure. But maybe it will get through to them, and even if nothing happens productive this year, those players can take some of that with their career moving forward. But I think he deserves to just coach through the BTT at the least, and then we can move forward. I also don't think it looks very good to the college basketball world to fire him right now. I mean yes he won't be here next year, however I don't see all the great things that can come from him not being here and having the rest of the staff coach the rest of the way. It's not a great situation, I know. MT also said he will wait until after the season, and I don't think an 8 minute press with a defeated man after 9 years will/should change that.

 

I wishing nothing but the best for Bruce at the next program he takes over. He was around for some great years early, and just IMO, he coached that team up to get to where they needed to be. We don't need to argue about Self recruits for the rest of the thread. But generally he's respected as a good coach, however his lack of talent (or the wrong talent) brought in ultimately hurt him. I see what he means by coaching not to lose. Obviously he was feeling everything and nowhere to go with the team, trying to win now and that's it, not thinking long term. He takes the blame for it, and it's a shame that's how it played out with the last few teams.

 

Color me sad today just with the overall situation. I hope both the team and him can move forward over the next few years and both have success.

[whitesoxfan99]

Agreed. Let McClain show is coaching expertise (none).

 

In all seriousness though, the whole thing is just sad. The guy never had a chance with the fan base. No one wanted him, even when he succeeded beyond what Kruger and Self were able to do (the whole line about Self's recruits is bulls***. He coached that team up from borderline good to great). He probably should have been fired a few seasons ago to save the embarrassment both of him and the program. Or at the very least they should have told him take that job at Oklahoma last year, or wherever else he got a job offer (wasn't Oregon one a few seasons back?). Losing to teams like Penn State and Northwestern year in and year out is just not acceptable. The fact that he's been on the hotseat for a few years - you just can't coach that way, as he admitted last night. Too much pressure because every loss gets you that much closer to losing all support. So instead of losing early to win later, he wanted to do everything he could to win in the present. And you could see that with his refusal to play younger guys because they make mistakes, so instead he plays guys like Sam who won't turn the ball over, but probably won't be good enough to win either.

 

He needs a fresh start, as does the program itself. I still see a gigantic problem with expectations though. All those highly ranked recruits the next few years? Most are Weber guys, including any chance they had with Parker (who according to Klee, is still very interested in Illinois). So the program is back to being stuck in a recruiting rut, no matter who they bring in. When the new coach fails to land big recruits in his first season or two, get ready for the same boo birds that were all over Weber for not being able to land anyone.

 

f***ing sucks, the whole thing.

 

It is beyond absurd to suggest that there will be a recruiting rut regardless of who they bring in. I can't see a guy like Shaka Smart not being successful as a recruiter. And if a guy can recruit he will be successful at it right away (Mark Gottfried just brought in a monster class for 2012 right off the bat at NC St. for f***s sake). Also, there is a very good chance that Jalen James and Malcolm Hill stay committed if you hire the right coach because both of those guys just really like Illinois and want to play for Illinois (James in particular).

Edited February 16, 2012 by whitesoxfan99

[LittleHurt05]

Gotta love the geniuses on Twitter:

 

Andy Glockner @AndyGlockner

Ummmm, no. RT @socialmiscondct: @AndyGlockner is bruce pearl hireable for illinois if they wait one more year to get rid of their coach?

 

On the list of "Hires that won't happen," Bruce Pearl to Illinois may only be behind "Dave Bliss back to Baylor." Maybe.

 

 

 

 

[CanOfCorn]

Agreed, this is a sad situation. I know it's a message board and we're all supposed to be fire-breathing assholes, but I feel bad for Bruce and the end of the road here. Last night you were listening to a man defeated. He knew it was the end. It's hard to imagine what he's feeling, don't think any of us have been in such a situation. I'm not terribly upset with his comments. Did he throw guys under the bus? Sure. But for years he's been protecting dumb, lazy players, and he finally called a spade a spade. And it's not like it was crazy, he was just defeated and was honest. I mean what exactly did he say that was incorrect or so out of line? Leonard was a dog, he's got a terrible attitude, Paul plays like an idiot (that last play is not what was drawn up at all, Paul was selfish and just stupid), DJ failed to do anything on offense. So on and so on. It IS sad that Abrams is your leader.

 

Now yes, he recruited those lazy, dumb, etc, players. So yes, it's the end of the road. Ultimately, it's on him. I'm sad to see him go. Not in the I want him to stay kind of way, just sad that it's coming to an end. Bruce is a good guy, he ran a clean program (nothing tells me otherwise), he works very hard and cares a lot about the team and the university. But yes, the success recently wasn't there, so this is what will happen. Doesn't mean it isn't a sad time, IMO.

 

I don't see the point in firing him now just because of those comments. He's not the first coach to call out a player or a team, whether that coach was on the hot seat or not. Will it be awkward? Sure. But maybe it will get through to them, and even if nothing happens productive this year, those players can take some of that with their career moving forward. But I think he deserves to just coach through the BTT at the least, and then we can move forward. I also don't think it looks very good to the college basketball world to fire him right now. I mean yes he won't be here next year, however I don't see all the great things that can come from him not being here and having the rest of the staff coach the rest of the way. It's not a great situation, I know. MT also said he will wait until after the season, and I don't think an 8 minute press with a defeated man after 9 years will/should change that.

 

I wishing nothing but the best for Bruce at the next program he takes over. He was around for some great years early, and just IMO, he coached that team up to get to where they needed to be. We don't need to argue about Self recruits for the rest of the thread. But generally he's respected as a good coach, however his lack of talent (or the wrong talent) brought in ultimately hurt him. I see what he means by coaching not to lose. Obviously he was feeling everything and nowhere to go with the team, trying to win now and that's it, not thinking long term. He takes the blame for it, and it's a shame that's how it played out with the last few teams.

 

Color me sad today just with the overall situation. I hope both the team and him can move forward over the next few years and both have success.

 

Well said. Bruce is a good guy but ended up being an excellent mid-major coach. I hope he has success at his next position moving forward.

 

And I agree...firing someone in the middle of the season will not bring you the coach you desire. It makes the program look petty and foolish. I am excited to see where Mike Thomas might be headed with his next hire, though. If you use Tim Beckman as a template...younger, excitable, decent local recruiter. Discuss.

[Jenksismyhero]

Agreed, this is a sad situation. I know it's a message board and we're all supposed to be fire-breathing assholes, but I feel bad for Bruce and the end of the road here. Last night you were listening to a man defeated. He knew it was the end. It's hard to imagine what he's feeling, don't think any of us have been in such a situation. I'm not terribly upset with his comments. Did he throw guys under the bus? Sure. But for years he's been protecting dumb, lazy players, and he finally called a spade a spade. And it's not like it was crazy, he was just defeated and was honest. I mean what exactly did he say that was incorrect or so out of line? Leonard was a dog, he's got a terrible attitude, Paul plays like an idiot (that last play is not what was drawn up at all, Paul was selfish and just stupid), DJ failed to do anything on offense. So on and so on. It IS sad that Abrams is your leader.

 

Now yes, he recruited those lazy, dumb, etc, players. So yes, it's the end of the road. Ultimately, it's on him. I'm sad to see him go. Not in the I want him to stay kind of way, just sad that it's coming to an end. Bruce is a good guy, he ran a clean program (nothing tells me otherwise), he works very hard and cares a lot about the team and the university. But yes, the success recently wasn't there, so this is what will happen. Doesn't mean it isn't a sad time, IMO.

 

I don't see the point in firing him now just because of those comments. He's not the first coach to call out a player or a team, whether that coach was on the hot seat or not. Will it be awkward? Sure. But maybe it will get through to them, and even if nothing happens productive this year, those players can take some of that with their career moving forward. But I think he deserves to just coach through the BTT at the least, and then we can move forward. I also don't think it looks very good to the college basketball world to fire him right now. I mean yes he won't be here next year, however I don't see all the great things that can come from him not being here and having the rest of the staff coach the rest of the way. It's not a great situation, I know. MT also said he will wait until after the season, and I don't think an 8 minute press with a defeated man after 9 years will/should change that.

 

I wishing nothing but the best for Bruce at the next program he takes over. He was around for some great years early, and just IMO, he coached that team up to get to where they needed to be. We don't need to argue about Self recruits for the rest of the thread. But generally he's respected as a good coach, however his lack of talent (or the wrong talent) brought in ultimately hurt him. I see what he means by coaching not to lose. Obviously he was feeling everything and nowhere to go with the team, trying to win now and that's it, not thinking long term. He takes the blame for it, and it's a shame that's how it played out with the last few teams.

 

Color me sad today just with the overall situation. I hope both the team and him can move forward over the next few years and both have success.

 

Agreed. I'm in hopes the players, Leonard and Paul especially, realize that their play and attitude played a part in this. They should go out and try and dominate to end on a good note.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

It is beyond absurd to suggest that there will be a recruiting rut regardless of who they bring in. I can't see a guy like Shaka Smart not being successful as a recruiter. And if a guy can recruit he will be successful at it right away (Mark Gottfried just brought in a monster class for 2012 right off the bat at NC St. for f***s sake). Also, there is a very good chance that Jalen James and Malcolm Hill stay committed if you hire the right coach because both of those guys just really like Illinois and want to play for Illinois (James in particular).

 

I think the Gottfried thing is an abnormality. Recruiting isn't an easy fix. It's relationship building, which takes time. I think it's a foregone conclusion that Jerrance Howard is also out, though maybe if they throw some money his way he'll stay. He's the key guy in this. He can bridge the gap between Weber and the new coach.

[Jenksismyhero]

Here's video of his press conference if people haven't seen it:

 

[Jenksismyhero]

lol, i liked the very end, when someone asked about the last play with Paul. Weber's response: "I have no idea what he was thinking." You and everyone else, Bruce.

[farmteam]

Agreed, this is a sad situation. I know it's a message board and we're all supposed to be fire-breathing assholes, but I feel bad for Bruce and the end of the road here. Last night you were listening to a man defeated. He knew it was the end. It's hard to imagine what he's feeling, don't think any of us have been in such a situation. I'm not terribly upset with his comments. Did he throw guys under the bus? Sure. But for years he's been protecting dumb, lazy players, and he finally called a spade a spade. And it's not like it was crazy, he was just defeated and was honest. I mean what exactly did he say that was incorrect or so out of line? Leonard was a dog, he's got a terrible attitude, Paul plays like an idiot (that last play is not what was drawn up at all, Paul was selfish and just stupid), DJ failed to do anything on offense. So on and so on. It IS sad that Abrams is your leader.

 

Now yes, he recruited those lazy, dumb, etc, players. So yes, it's the end of the road. Ultimately, it's on him. I'm sad to see him go. Not in the I want him to stay kind of way, just sad that it's coming to an end. Bruce is a good guy, he ran a clean program (nothing tells me otherwise), he works very hard and cares a lot about the team and the university. But yes, the success recently wasn't there, so this is what will happen. Doesn't mean it isn't a sad time, IMO.

 

I don't see the point in firing him now just because of those comments. He's not the first coach to call out a player or a team, whether that coach was on the hot seat or not. Will it be awkward? Sure. But maybe it will get through to them, and even if nothing happens productive this year, those players can take some of that with their career moving forward. But I think he deserves to just coach through the BTT at the least, and then we can move forward. I also don't think it looks very good to the college basketball world to fire him right now. I mean yes he won't be here next year, however I don't see all the great things that can come from him not being here and having the rest of the staff coach the rest of the way. It's not a great situation, I know. MT also said he will wait until after the season, and I don't think an 8 minute press with a defeated man after 9 years will/should change that.

 

I wishing nothing but the best for Bruce at the next program he takes over. He was around for some great years early, and just IMO, he coached that team up to get to where they needed to be. We don't need to argue about Self recruits for the rest of the thread. But generally he's respected as a good coach, however his lack of talent (or the wrong talent) brought in ultimately hurt him. I see what he means by coaching not to lose. Obviously he was feeling everything and nowhere to go with the team, trying to win now and that's it, not thinking long term. He takes the blame for it, and it's a shame that's how it played out with the last few teams.

 

Color me sad today just with the overall situation. I hope both the team and him can move forward over the next few years and both have success.

 

I agree he should not be fired with only a small part of the season left anyway, but if he were fired tomorrow and that press conference was the proverbial straw, I don't think it would be because he threw his players under the bus so much as how defeated he was (not just implicitly, but what he actually said, too). That's more damaging, I think, for the man who's supposed to lead his team (and, at a Basketball school like Illinois, be the most prominent public face the University has).

 

If this were Crean, I'd be way more upset about the apparent defeatism (not just currently, but saying he's been like that for awhile) than throwing players under the bus.

 

[whitesoxfan99]

I think the Gottfried thing is an abnormality. Recruiting isn't an easy fix. It's relationship building, which takes time. I think it's a foregone conclusion that Jerrance Howard is also out, though maybe if they throw some money his way he'll stay. He's the key guy in this. He can bridge the gap between Weber and the new coach.

 

Sean Miller recruited extremely well right off the bat at Arizona, Self's second class at Illinois was fantastic, Crean's second class at Indiana was very good, Matta's second class had Oden, Conley, Cook. Hell, Zook recruited really well right off the bat for Illinois and that was with what was a garbage football program. You are drastically overstating how difficult it is to fix recruiting. If you are a good recruiter you will be successful at it right away.

[Brian]

I see where the frustration is coming from with Illini fans but as a Weber fan who appreciates what he did with my alma mater by making them relevant, I felt bad for Weber at the beginning. Looked like he was sitting alone in front of a firing squad but his words didn't do him any favors.

[Jenksismyhero]

Sean Miller recruited extremely well right off the bat at Arizona, Self's second class at Illinois was fantastic, Crean's second class at Indiana was very good, Matta's second class had Oden, Conley, Cook. Hell, Zook recruited really well right off the bat for Illinois and that was with what was a garbage football program. You are drastically overstating how difficult it is to fix recruiting. If you are a good recruiter you will be successful at it right away.

 

Guess we'll see.

[IlliniKrush]

I agree he should not be fired with only a small part of the season left anyway, but if he were fired tomorrow and that press conference was the proverbial straw, I don't think it would be because he threw his players under the bus so much as how defeated he was (not just implicitly, but what he actually said, too). That's more damaging, I think, for the man who's supposed to lead his team (and, at a Basketball school like Illinois, be the most prominent public face the University has).

 

If this were Crean, I'd be way more upset about the apparent defeatism (not just currently, but saying he's been like that for awhile) than throwing players under the bus.

He's supposed to be the face but everyone knows he isn't anymore, so I don't know what difference it makes.

 

IMO, Bruce isn't a guy that won't keep coaching and trying to win as many games possible and get them to the tournament, even though he's done. But that's just me. He probably still cares more than half the roster, which is pathetic considering he knows he's done.

 

There's nothing to be upset about over the defeatism. I don't see why I should be upset over it. What do you expect from him? It was the symbolic end. Besides the late games in the 05 run, that was the biggest game of his Illini career. I'd feel the exact same way. This isn't a team that has title hopes he's somehow crushing with his words and attitude.

 

 

 

 

[Chisoxfn]

SDSU gets smacked at home to UNM and the numbers (and Vegas) laugh in Justin's face.

I wish I saw his comment, I would have said something. New Mexico is a darn good team. That conference is by far the strongest mid-major conference in the country and far better than the power conference the Pac 10 claims to be (they are awful).

[LittleHurt05]

Sean Miller recruited extremely well right off the bat at Arizona, Self's second class at Illinois was fantastic, Crean's second class at Indiana was very good, Matta's second class had Oden, Conley, Cook. Hell, Zook recruited really well right off the bat for Illinois and that was with what was a garbage football program. You are drastically overstating how difficult it is to fix recruiting. If you are a good recruiter you will be successful at it right away.

 

And the thing is with basketball, it's you like need an entire class of 5-stars. if you can just get one or two outstanding players, that already makes your team so much better

[whitesoxfan99]

And the thing is with basketball, it's you like need an entire class of 5-stars. if you can just get one or two outstanding players, that already makes your team so much better

 

And the new coach won't be coming into a team devoid of talent either. James and Hill will stay committed if you hire a competent coach, you have 3 freshmen that have showed flashes this year and Bertrand still has two years left. If Paul doesn't go pro you have the talent to be good (not great but good) right away. If Leonard stays and the team is actually coached properly they could be top 15 right off the bat. This isn't an Indiana rebuilding job.

[farmteam]

And the new coach won't be coming into a team devoid of talent either. James and Hill will stay committed if you hire a competent coach, you have 3 freshmen that have showed flashes this year and Bertrand still has two years left. If Paul doesn't go pro you have the talent to be good (not great but good) right away. If Leonard stays and the team is actually coached properly they could be top 15 right off the bat. This isn't an Indiana rebuilding job.

 

Your painfully true words bring back terrible memories of the team during my time there.

[IlliniKrush]

And the new coach won't be coming into a team devoid of talent either. James and Hill will stay committed if you hire a competent coach, you have 3 freshmen that have showed flashes this year and Bertrand still has two years left. If Paul doesn't go pro you have the talent to be good (not great but good) right away. If Leonard stays and the team is actually coached properly they could be top 15 right off the bat. This isn't an Indiana rebuilding job.

There is a 0% chance Leonard comes back, unfortunately.

[LittleHurt05]

There is a 0% chance Leonard comes back, unfortunately.

 

I had held out hope he would come back until I read that ESPN piece on his family situation. If he is guaranteed to go 1st round, I absolutely would expect him to go pro and not think twice.

[Brian]

So the Spartans seem to be hitting their stride at the right time.

[Soxbadger]

Eh Wisconsin played terrible, MSU played solid. They are versatile so always a hard out in the tourney but Im not thinking they are a real title contender.

[He_Gawn]

I think MSU can make a big run. So physical and just a real close team.

 

Also, sounds like Barlow and maybe Byrd of Purdue were arrested last night.

[LittleHurt05]

I think MSU can make a big run. So physical and just a real close team.

 

Also, sounds like Barlow and maybe Byrd of Purdue were arrested last night.

 

Didn't Barlow get suspended for causing trouble last year?