He_Gawn Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jan 20, 2012 -> 10:24 AM) I'm no fan of Weber, but hearing a poster presumably being a Crean backer routinely critisize Weber is simply mind boggling. You trying to say Crean has had as much talent as Weber the past 4 years? Last year was a disapointment, and the last few games have been disapointing as well. I don't know if you noticed, but Indiana still sits at 15-4, exceeding expectations and has the best 2 wins in the country. I'll give Crean a little bit of leeway, but Webers time has run out. Now if Crean loses this team completely and they end up on the bubble, then I'll be with you. I don't think that will be happening and the talent coming only gets better each year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmteam Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jan 20, 2012 -> 09:24 AM) I'm no fan of Weber, but hearing a poster presumably being a Crean backer routinely critisize Weber is simply mind boggling. ...Then maybe you haven't watched IU this year? The past three games? Yeah, those sucked. But up until that point, Crean was routinely outcoaching the opponent, and doing so against good competition (ie, I'm not referring to the cupcakes, just the games where good coaching could actually make a difference, and was vital). As He Gawn said, if this team completely collapses, sure, I'll put a fair share of the blame on Crean. But I don't think it's fair to do so just yet. Edited January 20, 2012 by farmteam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 Head to DePaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 QUOTE (He_Gawn @ Jan 20, 2012 -> 08:43 AM) Also Illinois guys, have any of you seen Kendall Stephens play for St. Charles East I believe it is? Purdue fans thinking he's the next big thing or some crap. Haven't heard the same, I think their full of s***. Heard he plays in a pro-football area and not a lot of basketball competition. I haven't seen him, but their schedule is very bad and their W-L against that schedule is unimpressive so odds are you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 QUOTE (He_Gawn @ Jan 20, 2012 -> 07:10 AM) ILL ? Where is IlliniKrush? Karmas a b**** Karma was talking crap about not having any trouble with Illinois, then losing the next one. At least we haven't lost 3 in a row yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmteam Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Jan 20, 2012 -> 04:59 PM) Karma was talking crap about not having any trouble with Illinois, then losing the next one. At least we haven't lost 3 in a row yet. Is it really that hard to admit that it is karma that you made fun of IU for losing to a team it shouldn't, and then Illinois does the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He_Gawn Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Jan 20, 2012 -> 05:59 PM) Karma was talking crap about not having any trouble with Illinois, then losing the next one. At least we haven't lost 3 in a row yet. What farmteam said. At least we haven't lost three in a row yet? That's the comeback? Same s*** different year with Weber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Im kind of shocked people are loving Crean so much, but maybe hes changed from his Marquette days. All I remember is guards playing forward, random nonsensical line ups and basically no game plan. I havent really watched him at Indiana so maybe hes changed, but Id take Weber over Crean, Weber is one of the few coaches who has had success against Wisconsin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He_Gawn Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 20, 2012 -> 07:55 PM) Im kind of shocked people are loving Crean so much, but maybe hes changed from his Marquette days. All I remember is guards playing forward, random nonsensical line ups and basically no game plan. I havent really watched him at Indiana so maybe hes changed, but Id take Weber over Crean, Weber is one of the few coaches who has had success against Wisconsin. His recruiting base in Indiana is much more fertile (and easier). He's able to actually recruit big time forwards and centers, thus you get Zeller and Watford down low. IMO, his gameplans have been incredible this year. The only games the team wasn't ready and busting out of the gate were at OSU and Minnesota. In game adjustments have been okay, but I'd like to see better at the end of games. His substitutions are mediocre, but that's still due to lack of experience on the bench and lack of athleticism. Next year the whole roster will be recruited by Crean with the most talent in the B1G. Edited January 21, 2012 by He_Gawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Crean has always been considered a good recruiter he beat Wisconsin for a fair amount of players. Hed just usually take talented players and make them do ridiculous things. I know Marquette people felt that they may lose some talent recruit wise but theyd probably pick up a few games due to less Crean insanity. When he was in Wisconsin he could have recruited big guys, he just generally preferred to put line ups of 5 guys that were 6'5. If hes changed, thats good news for Indiana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 20, 2012 -> 08:41 AM) Sounds about right. Good job Bruce. Weber's days are numbered! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He_Gawn Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 20, 2012 -> 08:14 PM) Crean has always been considered a good recruiter he beat Wisconsin for a fair amount of players. Hed just usually take talented players and make them do ridiculous things. I know Marquette people felt that they may lose some talent recruit wise but theyd probably pick up a few games due to less Crean insanity. When he was in Wisconsin he could have recruited big guys, he just generally preferred to put line ups of 5 guys that were 6'5. If hes changed, thats good news for Indiana. He likes his "4" to be able to handle the rock and shoot. Watford does that, but also rebounds at a decent rate. He's got a lot of size and athleticism coming in Perea, Hollowell, Jurkin, and Fischer of Wisconsin whom I'm shocked the Badgers didn't give a look. He's definitely showing he can now recruit the "big" as he's probably the front runner for the best center in 2013 in BeeJay Anya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The future looks bright for Indiana, Im just saying today, its hard for me to pick Crean over Weber, in a few years it may be easy. As for Fischer for whatever reason Wisconsin didnt even offer. From what Ive read Bo is good friends with the Germantown coach and for whatever reason didnt believe Fischer was as good as guys that Wisconsin could offer otherwise. I havent seen him play, those that have on Wisconsin boards seem to not be to concerned about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He_Gawn Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) I was surprised. Fischer was 6'3" 1.5 years ago, and is now a legit 6'10". Isn't a shooter, prefers staying down low. Just broke his hand and had was evaluated and doctors said his growth plates were still open, meaning he could likely get to 7', as he's grown 3 inches in the last 3 months. Already a top 100 four star and climbing. As for Crean vs. Weber, Creans already done as much as Bruce, with less talent. Edited January 21, 2012 by He_Gawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Wisconsin has gotten plenty of 6'10+ white guys from the state who havent done much. I dont really care about stars or that stuff, I used to follow it pretty heavily but as a Wisconsin fan its generally a story of offering great guys early only to watch them go to OSU, UNC, etc. I havent seen many players that were good that Bo just didnt offer, but who knows, maybe Bo Ryan cant scout is own state, maybe he isnt aware of Germantown, but that would seem odd seeing as the best player on Germantown is a Wisconsin commit (Zak Showalter). I guess you probably know more than Bo Ryan. As for Weber v Crean. Weber: 311–143 8 NCAA Tournaments 3 Sweet 16s 1 Final 4 Crean: 231–163 5 NCAA Tournaments 1 Sweet 16 1 Final 4 Bruce Weber Big 10: 87-54 (1 season under 500) Tom Crean Big 10: 11-49 (3 seasons under 500) In no universe has Crean done as much as Bruce Weber. Crean has lost more games and won less than Weber. Tom Crean has won 1 conference title in all his years coaching and it was in the American League. Weber has 4 conference titles. Hard to really take that comment seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'm just gonna get the popcorn while the IU and U of I fans go back and forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I hope your not calling me an Illinois fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 20, 2012 -> 10:07 PM) I hope your not calling me an Illinois fan. Nah, Krush et al vs. He Gawn and farmteam. I agree with you about Crean vs. Weber. Crean's track record is mediocre and extending him when IU did was moronic, but they were comfortable letting the program not exist for 3 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Then we are in agreement on all accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He_Gawn Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Yes, that makes sense. We should definitely judge Crean by how many games he won his first two years at IU with walk on's and 2-3 star non top 150 players that he scrapped together at the last possible second. That makes a lot of sense compared to Bruces roster of top 150 players. Are you f***ing kidding me? Like I said, last year was disapointing. This year was supposed to be a "bubble" type of year. We sit 15-4 with the best two wins in the country. Once again, are you f***ing kidding me? Crean said himself his first year. "If I had known this situation beforehand, I would have never left Marquette". I honestly still cannot even believe you included those two years. Now please, explain to me how Bo Ryan would have won with Tijan Jobe and Brett Finklemyer leading the team. Please, enlighten me. Edited January 21, 2012 by He_Gawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He_Gawn Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (danman31 @ Jan 20, 2012 -> 11:13 PM) Nah, Krush et al vs. He Gawn and farmteam. I agree with you about Crean vs. Weber. Crean's track record is mediocre and extending him when IU did was moronic, but they were comfortable letting the program not exist for 3 seasons. Please, who was Indiana supposed to extend and hire? IU was looking at the death penalty from the NCAA if they didn't self impose and start from scratch. Do you think coaches were lining up to take an Indiana job with ZERO returning scholarship players? Yea, lets go hire a coach like Calipari, Scott Drew, or someone like that and see what NCAA thinks of that. Good f***ing call. Even if Indiana would have won the first two years, they wouldn't have been postseason eligible because of the APR. Luckily for UK and 1 and done factories like that, the rules changed allowing students leaving in good academic standing to no longer count against the APR. Maybe you should refresh your memory on the facts. Edited January 21, 2012 by He_Gawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Bruce Weber still has accomplished more even you if you completely forget that Tom Crean had 2 years that are by far worse than any year Bo Ryan or Bruce Weber have had at any level or team that they ever coached at. Ive never seen this level of kool aid over a coach who currently is 43-69 at supposedly one of the most prestigious basketball schools in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He_Gawn Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Oh ok, then we'll count the biggest scholarship turnover since the Evansville plane crash. That makes sense. And yet, Crean has still been to a final four. Bruce has one. Ryan has Zero. Congrats. LMAO. Even Bob Knight couldn't have coached those two teams to 15 wins. Get freakin' real man. Yes, Creans so bad, he's brainwashing some of the top recruits in the country to come play for him. Man what a used car salesman. He must be cheating. He's never reeled in anything close to a 5 star before last year. He now has 3 on the way. Edited January 21, 2012 by He_Gawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Your argument for why Tom Crean has done more than Weber is because Crean had really bad recruits 2 years. What about all the other years, you know the fact that he only has 1 conference title, even when Marquette was in the American? I just dont see how you can objectively say Crean has done more than Weber. Edited January 21, 2012 by Soxbadger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He_Gawn Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 21, 2012 -> 12:17 AM) Your argument for why Tom Crean has done more than Weber is because Crean had really bad recruits 2 years. What about all the other years, you know the fact that he only has 1 conference title, even when Marquette was in the American? I just dont see how you can objectively say Crean has done more than Weber. Crean had bad recruits for two years? He had practically 0 of his own recruits for two years. You do realize its hard to recruit at one school, then leave for another and keep recruiting the same kids (ones who are not good enough for a school like Indiana in the first place) and convince them this is the school for you, even though you just left the one you were recruiting them too.... As for Crean at Marquette... He left a MID-MAJOR conference after building the program back up and joined the Big East where he finished 4th, 5th, and 5th. That's pretty damn good IMO in a traditionally strong conference after leaving a MID-Major. Also made the NCAA every year in the Big East. Mr. Weber inherited a roster full of Self's players. You may want to go check out his records after those players started to graduate... Then go check out Creans records after he started getting his "own" players. Yea I get it. You hate Crean because he coached at Marquette and they steal "your" talent, just like Buzz has continued to do. Luckily, Bo struck gold with Dekkar, but I doubt Bo is there by the time he graduates. Edited January 21, 2012 by He_Gawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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