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2011-2012 NCAA Basketball Thread


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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Feb 1, 2012 -> 01:01 PM)
Anybody who says that NCAA players try harder didn't watch Illinois basketball last year. McCamey had legit NBA aspirations and didn't give a s*** about it. Davis & Tisdale also half-assed it most of the time.

 

Richmond and Leonard also come to mind for "could be better" players.

 

Generally the guys who are known for working hard in college work hard in the NBA.

 

Then DeMarcus Cousins worked hard at neither, but he sucks in the NBA because there are legit big men.

 

John Wall was more talented in college, looked good. He has to work hard in the NBA because there are better players, or he'll be bad.

 

Same for Kemba, Beasley, Thabeet, Fredette, etc.

 

Then you have people like Rose who realize they need to work harder.

 

It's more a "guys in college just coast in college, then suck because they never tried in the first place" type of deal.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 1, 2012 -> 01:03 PM)
One thing you can say about college BB is that because there are so many more programs/teams, any generalization you want to make is probably true. There are probably plenty of teams of incredibly motivated, hard workers, and just as many teams who want to party. In the NBA, you have only a handful of teams like the Bulls/Spurs who are legendary already for work ethic, while on the other side you also only have a handful of teams like the Heat/Kings/Wizards who come to mind when you think "the effort of these guys is kinda lacking".

 

Yeah, but there are guys on the Heat/Kings/Wizards who do put in the effort. Either they are lower on the roster so you don't notice, or the team is so much less talented that it doesn't matter. Not every member of the Bulls has a legendary work ethic either.

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Feb 1, 2012 -> 01:25 PM)
Yeah, but there are guys on the Heat/Kings/Wizards who do put in the effort. Either they are lower on the roster so you don't notice, or the team is so much less talented that it doesn't matter. Not every member of the Bulls has a legendary work ethic either.

 

I don't think the Heat belong on that list of being lazy, Wade/Lebron/Bosh don't put up those stats because they are lazy....

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QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Feb 1, 2012 -> 01:28 PM)
I don't think the Heat belong on that list of being lazy, Wade/Lebron/Bosh don't put up those stats because they are lazy....

 

You are right. He lumped them in with the Kings & Wizards and threw me off. Yes, maybe LeBron should work on his low post game a little more. But you don't get in that type of physical shape/endurance and put up those numbers with a lack of effort. And with the way Wade throws himself in the lane and has played injured, I don't know how he can be considered lazy.

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Feb 1, 2012 -> 01:37 PM)
You are right. He lumped them in with the Kings & Wizards and threw me off. Yes, maybe LeBron should work on his low post game a little more. But you don't get in that type of physical shape/endurance and put up those numbers with a lack of effort. And with the way Wade throws himself in the lane and has played injured, I don't know how he can be considered lazy.

 

I literally can't think of a team other than the Kings or Wizards that is lazy.

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Feb 1, 2012 -> 02:37 PM)
You are right. He lumped them in with the Kings & Wizards and threw me off. Yes, maybe LeBron should work on his low post game a little more. But you don't get in that type of physical shape/endurance and put up those numbers with a lack of effort. And with the way Wade throws himself in the lane and has played injured, I don't know how he can be considered lazy.

I threw them in half as an insult and half because that team doesn't get assembled in the first place if they're not trying to do the NBA version of Calipari-ing the system.

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QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Feb 1, 2012 -> 01:28 PM)
I don't think the Heat belong on that list of being lazy, Wade/Lebron/Bosh don't put up those stats because they are lazy....

 

I'd absolutely call LeBron lazy. I don't care what his stats say, he should be much better than he is.

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QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Feb 1, 2012 -> 10:55 AM)
Seeding is pretty damn important in CBB considering it all BO1 instead of extended series. Obviously, you want to position yourself to be playing those garbage teams while others don't.

To an extent sure. But if you are good and a championship caliber team, you are going to be seeded in the top 6 or 7 and at that point you should have a good chance. If you aren't, quite frankly, you probably aren't that good of a team either way. It isn't like we are talking about home-court advantage, etc.

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QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 1, 2012 -> 02:52 PM)
To an extent sure. But if you are good and a championship caliber team, you are going to be seeded in the top 6 or 7 and at that point you should have a good chance. If you aren't, quite frankly, you probably aren't that good of a team either way. It isn't like we are talking about home-court advantage, etc.

Outside of the 16/1 and 15/2 matchups, once you're in the tourney, the odds are you're going to get whatever the best game is your opponent can give and it will be a challenge to win.

 

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One of the reasons it seems college basketball sucks the last few years, in my opinion, is due to Kentucky signing so many of the top recruits. Thus, you basically have a revolving door with that program instead of the top recruits being spread throughout the country.

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QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 1, 2012 -> 03:36 PM)
One of the reasons it seems college basketball sucks the last few years, in my opinion, is due to Kentucky signing so many of the top recruits. Thus, you basically have a revolving door with that program instead of the top recruits being spread throughout the country.

 

Yeah, same with North Carolina.

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QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 1, 2012 -> 04:36 PM)
One of the reasons it seems college basketball sucks the last few years, in my opinion, is due to Kentucky signing so many of the top recruits. Thus, you basically have a revolving door with that program instead of the top recruits being spread throughout the country.

Since so many of those guys are one-and-gones though, does that really hit the rest of the sport?

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So I turn on the indiana game to see the score is 28-11 with 6 minutes left in the first half. Wtf?

 

Starting to tighten up now. Might play out like the IU @MSU game where there are lots of runs.

Edited by Boogua
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I'm sure I'll get blasted by the hyperbole police, but I truly think this is the worst level of talent I've ever seen in college basketball. Hell, there's only two players in the power conferences averaging over 20 points, and I doubt many on here could guess who they are (Kevin Jones and T. Stoglin). The UCONN/Gtown game tonight was awful, and there are a handful of potential pros in that game.

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QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 1, 2012 -> 08:22 PM)
I'm sure I'll get blasted by the hyperbole police, but I truly think this is the worst level of talent I've ever seen in college basketball. Hell, there's only two players in the power conferences averaging over 20 points, and I doubt many on here could guess who they are (Kevin Jones and T. Stoglin). The UCONN/Gtown game tonight was awful, and there are a handful of potential pros in that game.

 

I think it's because basketball, in general, has deteriorated. The fundamentals of the game are lost and the NBA game (iso's) has younger players molding their game to be like a Derrick Rose, LeBron James, or Dwayne Wade. In college they seem to allow more contact than in the NBA, which makes it harder for those types of players to succeed. Shooting is more important, which is why guys like Morrison and Redick were able to pretty much dominate college basketball.

 

The NBA changed their rules (no handcheck, crazy superstar calls, continuation) to add more offense to the game as current players just weren't skilled enough to score at a high level anymore.. I wonder if the NCAA will eventually go that way.

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QUOTE (Boogua @ Feb 2, 2012 -> 03:39 AM)
I think it's because basketball, in general, has deteriorated. The fundamentals of the game are lost and the NBA game (iso's) has younger players molding their game to be like a Derrick Rose, LeBron James, or Dwayne Wade. In college they seem to allow more contact than in the NBA, which makes it harder for those types of players to succeed. Shooting is more important, which is why guys like Morrison and Redick were able to pretty much dominate college basketball.

 

The NBA changed their rules (no handcheck, crazy superstar calls, continuation) to add more offense to the game as current players just weren't skilled enough to score at a high level anymore.. I wonder if the NCAA will eventually go that way.

To me, it's cause the point guards in college basketball freaking suck. Jordan Taylor has been underwhelming this year, and two of the top freshman pg coming in (Teague and Kbongo) have been very disappointing. I said it earlier this year, but if I had to draft a pg for my college team, it would be Pierre Jackson.

 

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QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 1, 2012 -> 08:43 PM)
To me, it's cause the point guards in college basketball freaking suck. Jordan Taylor has been underwhelming this year, and two of the top freshman pg coming in (Teague and Kbongo) have been very disappointing. I said it earlier this year, but if I had to draft a pg for my college team, it would be Pierre Jackson.

 

I think both could go hand in hand somewhat. There aren't too many people that play a true point guard position. Teague plays like a combo guard. Kabongo is more of a true point type mold, but it seems like he's still adjusting to the college game. Averaging over 5 assists per game as a true freshman isn't too bad though.

 

I personally like the Pressey kid from Mizzou a lot. His jumpshot isn't the best, but he's lighting quick and is a pretty good passer.

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QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 1, 2012 -> 08:43 PM)
To me, it's cause the point guards in college basketball freaking suck. Jordan Taylor has been underwhelming this year, and two of the top freshman pg coming in (Teague and Kbongo) have been very disappointing. I said it earlier this year, but if I had to draft a pg for my college team, it would be Pierre Jackson.

I'm a huge Pierre Jackson fan, not sure he'd be my first choice though. Top 5 for sure though with Scott Machado, Marshall, Dellevedova and Flip.

 

PS Creighton is out of control.

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QUOTE (Boogua @ Feb 1, 2012 -> 08:39 PM)
I think it's because basketball, in general, has deteriorated. The fundamentals of the game are lost and the NBA game (iso's) has younger players molding their game to be like a Derrick Rose, LeBron James, or Dwayne Wade. In college they seem to allow more contact than in the NBA, which makes it harder for those types of players to succeed. Shooting is more important, which is why guys like Morrison and Redick were able to pretty much dominate college basketball.

 

The NBA changed their rules (no handcheck, crazy superstar calls, continuation) to add more offense to the game as current players just weren't skilled enough to score at a high level anymore.. I wonder if the NCAA will eventually go that way.

 

The NBA definitely has more space. Part of it is the lack of zone defenses, part of it is the deeper 3-point arc for more spacing, part of it is the handchecking calls. You can just pack the paint and hack the hell out of better teams in college, and it's easier to get away with since a lot those guys can't hit jumpers (see Kentucky and Kansas in 2010 where they looked like the two best teams and lost because they shot like 3-480 from the arc).

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