2011-2012 NCAA Basketball Thread

[NorthSideSox72]

Quality of those top 100 wins is different though when it's Kansas/K-State/Texas and UNLV/Colorado/Colorado State.

 

Iowa State also hasn't lost to a team outside the top 25 (at the time) since UNI on November 30, and only two losses all year outside the top 25 (UNI and Drake).

 

Both teams still have time to earn it, though.

 

EDIT: Whoops, I was also wrong on ISU, they lost to Texas a couple weeks ago when they were unranked.

I realize I am an ISU fan, and I see what he is saying... 2 losses in pre-conf that should have been wins, and a similar record in-conference. Win against KU vs win against UNLV. But, ISU's SOS on Sagarin is 47th, and Wyoming's is 224th, so their schedules are not even in the same ballpark. ISU's 2 wins against Top 25 teams are KU and KSU, who have SOS's of 2 and 35. Wyoming's 1 was against UNLV who has a 61st SOS. ISU also with 3 wins vs Sag Top 50, Wyoming with 1. Basically, Wyoming's win looks a lot more flukey that ISU's.

 

Iowa State is on the inside right now, and as long as they stay Top 5 in the B12, they are 95% tp be in. They are currently 4th, and definitely in if it ended today. Wyoming is 4th in the MWC, who may get only two, but more likely 3 bids. 4 is possible but unlikely. Wyoming is on the outside looking in at the moment - they need to catch UNM, who they play next. But both teams have 3 games left against ranked opponents, so we'll have to see.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

I was too busy prepping my place for a superbowl party, so I didn't get to watch much of the game. Frankly, I could care less how well they played or how much better NW played. That's a game you simply have to win. No excuses.

 

If I'm Thomas I'm on the phones this week to see what kind of money I can gather for a buyout and a new contract going forward. Problem is this decision will come down to finances. Weber makes 1.3 mil a year, that's fourth to last in the Big Ten. Izzo makes 3.5, Matta makes 2.5, Crean makes 2.2. In other words, if Illinois fans expect them to compete for a top of the line coach, they're going to have to come up with some money. That's something they've never really done before.

 

If you can somehow get Shaka to come AND you can keep Howard, I'm all for it. Otherwise I think you have to fire a couple of assistants, give Weber the end of his contract (next year) and hire an assistant that can take over if need be. Here's what I see happening: they barely make it to the tournament and lose in the first or second round. Everyone calls for Weber's head. Then he pulls in a good recruiting class. He's already got 2 good verbals, maybe he gets Hamilton too. Then what do you do? Risk losing those recruits?

[whitesoxfan99]

I was too busy prepping my place for a superbowl party, so I didn't get to watch much of the game. Frankly, I could care less how well they played or how much better NW played. That's a game you simply have to win. No excuses.

 

If I'm Thomas I'm on the phones this week to see what kind of money I can gather for a buyout and a new contract going forward. Problem is this decision will come down to finances. Weber makes 1.3 mil a year, that's fourth to last in the Big Ten. Izzo makes 3.5, Matta makes 2.5, Crean makes 2.2. In other words, if Illinois fans expect them to compete for a top of the line coach, they're going to have to come up with some money. That's something they've never really done before.

 

If you can somehow get Shaka to come AND you can keep Howard, I'm all for it. Otherwise I think you have to fire a couple of assistants, give Weber the end of his contract (next year) and hire an assistant that can take over if need be. Here's what I see happening: they barely make it to the tournament and lose in the first or second round. Everyone calls for Weber's head. Then he pulls in a good recruiting class. He's already got 2 good verbals, maybe he gets Hamilton too. Then what do you do? Risk losing those recruits?

 

James and Hill are very good players but they aren't program changers and the next coach will have a good chance at keeping both of them. I honestly don't care about Hamilton. Very talented but he is always hurt, never plays and doesn't seem to work hard on his body or his game.

 

Short of going 7-1 or 8-0 down the stretch or landing Jabari Parker in the next two months I don't see a single reason to keep Weber on board unless the finances are so bad that you would have to go incredibly cheap on the next coach. Really sucks that Shahid Khan is supposedly friendly with Weber or he could easily be the money behind buying out Weber and landing the next coach. He was behind buying out Zook and was the money behind Illinois' offer to Sumlin (which was for top dollar btw).

[Buehrle>Wood]

Do everything to keep Howard too.

 

 

Shaka has to be the hire. I would like Brad Stevens personally. Not sure how much interest he has leaving Butler, but this will probably be his only opportunity into the Big Ten depending on how Crean works out for Indiana.

 

We are going to hire an African-American due to the PC bulls*** that goes on at the school. Fortunately Shaka is at least qualified.

[bigruss]

Do everything to keep Howard too.

 

 

Shaka has to be the hire. I would like Brad Stevens personally. Not sure how much interest he has leaving Butler, but this will probably be his only opportunity into the Big Ten depending on how Crean works out for Indiana.

 

We are going to hire an African-American due to the PC bulls*** that goes on at the school. Fortunately Shaka is at least qualified.

You really think race is going to have that much of an impact? I think Thomas will hire who ever he thinks is the best fit.

 

Shaka would be a great move all around, he would definitely get some buzz going around the program.

[Buehrle>Wood]

You really think race is going to have that much of an impact? I think Thomas will hire who ever he thinks is the best fit.

 

Shaka would be a great move all around, he would definitely get some buzz going around the program.

 

After the football hire and knowing how this school works, yes, I do. But yeah, I would not mind Shaka at all. He is as qualified as anyone.

[bigruss]

After the football hire and knowing how this school works, yes, I do. But yeah, I would not mind Shaka at all. He is as qualified as anyone.

Yea this school can be ridiculous, I worked in University Housing and that's probably the worst place here hiring just because they are minorities. But I just don't think Thomas would take this job if he was told he had to hire a minority for a head coach position even if they weren't his pick.

[CanOfCorn]

I'm not asking this to be an ass, but what kind of pressure is their at Illinois that there isn't at another school? It's not like Illinois is some national powerhouse. They are a middle of the road/stepping stone type program that occassionally succeeds and makes the tournament but doesn't do it consistently.

 

I understand that Illini fans want and expect more, but I don't really think there is pressure of the Illinois job.

 

Illinois is arguably the best school never to win a title. I've seen it debated on shows on ESPN, earlier versions of Comcast Sportsnet in Chicago (like Fox Sports net and SportsChannel), Sportswriters on TV, and radio shows. Only Temple, St. Johns and Notre Dame have more wins and never won a championship. So, there's pressure to win as the Illini have gotten so close or had the talent and...

 

I like Bruce Weber. But, it might be time to go.

 

EDIT: An interesting note...only Indiana has more wins in the B1G than Illinois and it's not by much.

Edited February 6, 2012 by CanOfCorn

[Buehrle>Wood]

I hope you're right. We already know there will be two no votes by the BoT for anyone who isn't an African-American candidate. I think they will put even more pressure on MT this time.

 

MT seems like a great man for the job though, so hopefully he won't give in.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Buehrle>Wood

[Buehrle>Wood]

Also, there are Illini fans clamoring for Jerrance Howard to be HC. God no. Keep him on as assistant, but just no to him taking over control.

[bigruss]

Also, there are Illini fans clamoring for Jerrance Howard to be HC. God no. Keep him on as assistant, but just no to him taking over control.

Yea...this type of move would set the program back farther, not make it better.

[Buehrle>Wood]

I'm not asking this to be an ass, but what kind of pressure is their at Illinois that there isn't at another school? It's not like Illinois is some national powerhouse. They are a middle of the road/stepping stone type program that occassionally succeeds and makes the tournament but doesn't do it consistently.

 

I understand that Illini fans want and expect more, but I don't really think there is pressure of the Illinois job.

Illinois is pretty good historically. They don't have the elusive NC, but they have to be by far the best program without one.

 

But I think that's mainly besides the point. I think most Illinois fans think of the basketball program as a sleeping giant. They may be right. Illinois has historically massively underachieved and still done pretty well for itself. It's basically for one reason only, and that's the talent bed it sits on. They can get scraps and still be a top 15 team with relative ease. Chicago is about tied with NYC with being the best basketball hotbed on the planet (EDIT: I looked up some numbers and it appears Chicago is actually the better one). Illinois is the only major in-state program (with apologies to DePaul and Northwestern) and talent should be coming here on a consistent basis. Problem is, it hasn't for about 20 years now, save for the last three years kind of.

 

With the kind of resources Illinois has, yes, there is definite pressure from the fans to compete. They see the in-state talent and figure it should be done with relative ease.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Buehrle>Wood

[clyons]

IIRC, Shaka Smart said "no thanks" to both Mizzou and NC State last year before signing his long term deal, so I have a hard time believing that he'd see Illinois as that much better of a job. I'd be all for it if he could be convinced.

[Buehrle>Wood]

IIRC, Shaka Smart said "no thanks" to both Mizzou and NC State last year before signing his long term deal, so I have a hard time believing that he'd see Illinois as that much better of a job. I'd be all for it if he could be convinced.

Last year was a little awkward though. You recruit a coach at the Final 4. Kind of hard to recruit the man coaching his team in it. And I think it's a little less awkward for Shaka to leave VCU when he did not just bring them their best season ever by far.

[Jenksismyhero]

Illinois is pretty good historically. They don't have the elusive NC, but they have to be by far the best program without one.

 

But I think that's mainly besides the point. I think most Illinois fans think of the basketball program as a sleeping giant. They may be right. Illinois has historically massively underachieved and still done pretty well for itself. It's basically for one reason only, and that's the talent bed it sits on. They can get scraps and still be a top 15 team with relative ease. Chicago is about tied with NYC with being the best basketball hotbed on the planet (EDIT: I looked up some numbers and it appears Chicago is actually the better one). Illinois is the only major in-state program (with apologies to DePaul and Northwestern) and talent should be coming here on a consistent basis. Problem is, it hasn't for about 20 years now, save for the last three years kind of.

 

With the kind of resources Illinois has, yes, there is definite pressure from the fans to compete. They see the in-state talent and figure it should be done with relative ease.

 

Illinois is a top basketball school. The problem is that it's been a revolving door since Henson. Why, i'm not sure. Kruger left for the NBA. I bet he would take that move back. Self left for a dream job in the Big 12. Can't really fault him there.

 

I'm just not sure who is out there that Illinois could get. Shaka not having any ties to the Big Ten and Chicago kind of scares me. And that's taking a flyer on a guy that had success at the mid-major level, but not at the major level. Wasn't that the big knock on Weber all this time?

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Illinois is a top basketball school. The problem is that it's been a revolving door since Henson. Why, i'm not sure. Kruger left for the NBA. I bet he would take that move back. Self left for a dream job in the Big 12. Can't really fault him there.

 

I'm just not sure who is out there that Illinois could get. Shaka not having any ties to the Big Ten and Chicago kind of scares me. And that's taking a flyer on a guy that had success at the mid-major level, but not at the major level. Wasn't that the big knock on Weber all this time?

 

Top basketball schools don't lose their coaches to other places.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Illinois is a top basketball school. The problem is that it's been a revolving door since Henson. Why, i'm not sure. Kruger left for the NBA. I bet he would take that move back. Self left for a dream job in the Big 12. Can't really fault him there.

 

I'm just not sure who is out there that Illinois could get. Shaka not having any ties to the Big Ten and Chicago kind of scares me. And that's taking a flyer on a guy that had success at the mid-major level, but not at the major level. Wasn't that the big knock on Weber all this time?

 

Shaka at least has Midwest ties.

 

That's going to be the knock on anyone until they have success, I would assume. What BCS-level coaches should we go after? Marc Cronin, maybe, but MT doesn't get along with him apparently.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Top basketball schools don't lose their coaches to other places.

I think Kansas is a top basketball school.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Illinois is a top basketball school. The problem is that it's been a revolving door since Henson. Why, i'm not sure. Kruger left for the NBA. I bet he would take that move back. Self left for a dream job in the Big 12. Can't really fault him there.

 

I'm just not sure who is out there that Illinois could get. Shaka not having any ties to the Big Ten and Chicago kind of scares me. And that's taking a flyer on a guy that had success at the mid-major level, but not at the major level. Wasn't that the big knock on Weber all this time?

 

Depends how you define top. More like an above average yet still way below an elite job.

[southsider2k5]

Depends how you define top. More like an above average yet still way below an elite job.

 

Exactly how I see it. They are not in the top tier. Top involves guys like UNC, Duke, Kentucky etc.

[whitesoxfan99]

Top basketball schools don't lose their coaches to other places.

 

Sure they do. Roy Williams left Kansas for UNC and it isn't uncommon for coaches to leave top basketball schools for the NBA. If money is equal and the coach doesn't have ties to a certain school there are probably only 5 or 6 (UNC, Kansas, Kentucky for sure and then a couple of others like Duke or UCLA that a guy may leave for but is Duke really that great of a job once Coach K leaves?) jobs at most that a coach would leave Illinois for.

[CanOfCorn]

List of All-Time NCAA Basketball NCAA wins. I'll give you 1 - 5 as Top Tier BBall schools. But if that's the case, where do you go from there? UCLA, Indiana, Arizona? If so, Illinois is up there above above-average.

 

 

Rank College Wins Losses Winning percent

1 Kentucky 2052 647 .760

2 Kansas 2038 799 .718

3 North Carolina 2033 728 .736

4 Duke 1944 827 .702

5 Syracuse 1810 819 .688

6 Temple 1766 974 .645

7 St. John's 1724 896 .658

8 UCLA 1709 755 .694

9 Notre Dame 1701 927 .647

10 Pennsylvania 1677 986 .630

11 Utah 1664 893 .651

12 Indiana 1663 950 .636

13 Illinois 1650 882 .652

14 Washington 1641 1068 .606

15 Brigham Young 1640 1005 .620

16 Western Kentucky 1639 809 .670

17 Purdue 1638 931 .638

18 Texas 1638 963 .630

19 Louisville 1632 854 .656

20 Oregon State 1619 1218 .571

21 West Virginia 1602 991 .618

22 Princeton 1599 1002 .615

23 Cincinnati 1598 940 .630

24 Arizona 1595 880 .644

25 North Carolina State 1569 956 .621

26 Bradley 1565 1041 .601

27 Villanova 1551 870 .641

28 Connecticut 1549 864 .642

29 Missouri State 1548 854 .644

30 Oklahoma 1526 977 .610

31 Alabama 1524 925 .622

32 Georgetown 1520 946 .616

33 Arkansas 1519 853 .640

34 Oklahoma State 1517 1055 .590

35 St. Joseph's 1499 1008 .598

35 Missouri 1499 1039 .591

37 Ohio State 1498 993 .601

38 Michigan State 1515 1024 .597

39 Washington State 1495 952 .611

40 Tennessee 1489 944 .612

41 Iowa 1487 1048 .587

42 Kansas State 1486 1058 .584

43 Illinois State 1474 1066 .580

44 USC 1473 1070 .579

45 Dayton 1471 1026 .589

46 Montana State 1470 1179 .555

46 Vanderbilt 1470 1035 .587

48 Marquette 1467 905 .618

49 Pittsburgh 1465 1048 .583

50 Minnesota 1463 1112 .568

 

[southsider2k5]

Sure they do. Roy Williams left Kansas for UNC and it isn't uncommon for coaches to leave top basketball schools for the NBA. If money is equal and the coach doesn't have ties to a certain school there are probably only 5 or 6 (UNC, Kansas, Kentucky for sure and then a couple of others like Duke or UCLA that a guy may leave for but is Duke really that great of a job once Coach K leaves?) jobs at most that a coach would leave Illinois for.

 

I think Williams at Kansas to UNC is the only except to the rule really. And by definition those 5 or 6 schools you mentioned, are the top programs. Illinois is no where close to that level.

[LittleHurt05]

Exactly how I see it. They are not in the top tier. Top involves guys like UNC, Duke, Kentucky etc.

 

I concur. Even if they had that NC that's forever alluded them, I still don't think they belong in the discussion with those teams.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Sure they do. Roy Williams left Kansas for UNC and it isn't uncommon for coaches to leave top basketball schools for the NBA. If money is equal and the coach doesn't have ties to a certain school there are probably only 5 or 6 (UNC, Kansas, Kentucky for sure and then a couple of others like Duke or UCLA that a guy may leave for but is Duke really that great of a job once Coach K leaves?) jobs at most that a coach would leave Illinois for.

 

There's obviously Duke, UNC, UCLA, Kansas, Kentucky and Indiana as the so called "blue bloods" of college basketball. But then there are schools like Michigan State, Syracuse, UConn, Louisville, Georgetown, Arizona, Florida that I would rank on a tier ahead of Illinois.