2011-2012 NCAA Basketball Thread

[Rex Hudler]

The Zeller family has too many kids.

 

Too many? I think they need to get back to working on making some more!

[Soxbadger]

Illini fans are generally no better or worse than anyone else in terms of refs.

 

And speaking of refs anyone see the Minnesota Wisconsin game, thats a game where both fan bases are going to be pissed.

[Soxfest]

40 free throws to 15. 24 of those in the second half. Even with the different style of plays. Tough to win on the road with those numbers.

Total BS by refs all night 42-15 free throws. I got no problem seeing Illini lose, but give them at least a fighting chance.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Soxfest

[Rex Hudler]

I agree with those that said the referees lost control tonight. They tightened up so much that it ruined the flow of the game. That said, the calls were not one sided. And complaining just because of the FT discrepancy is short-sighted. All you had to do is watch the game and see why there were so many more. It had everything to do with the styles of play, not homer or favorable calls.

 

Illinois lost tonight because they weren't good enough. Brandon Paul was not very good. Leonard was strong early on, but faded. Especially in the 2nd half. Leonard's problem was in his head. Things got rough and he couldn't handle it. Sadly, he's the one that started that crap with the shove of Zeller at mid court early on. Richardson seemed to keep them in the game for awhile.

 

I thought IU played very sloppy in the first half. I was surprised about halfway through that it was a close game. I felt like we were behind. Hulls hit some big shots and they did a much better job of driving and getting the ball inside in the 2nd half creating a ton of opportunities.

 

Good win for the Hoosiers. Six games left, all are winnable. 4-2 is a more likely record. I'd like to see them win on the road at Iowa or Minny.

[Rex Hudler]

Total BS by refs all night 42-15 free throws. I got no problem seeing Illini lose, but give them at least a fighting chance.

 

Wah! Playing better help defense and not letting IU get the ball to the rim consistently might have helped their cause. The game was not called one sided. Hanging your hat on FT #'s to complain just doesn't cut it.

[farmteam]

Illini fans are generally no better or worse than anyone else in terms of refs.

 

Eh, my problem with complaining about refs is that personally, I try really really hard to not let it affect how I view the game. This means I strive to be cognizant of the calls my team gets and the ones they don't get, and people who complain about the refs often forget about all the calls their team DID get.

 

My other thing is that it's very, very rare a bad call actually gives a team points. They often give a team a chance to score points, but it's up to the team to capitalize on that opportunity, and I try not to take that away from the players. Yes, I realize that the more chances a team has, the more likely it is they'll score more...but my point is that there still a critical element of a team performing well enough to capitalize on those opportunities.

 

I agree that IU got the benefit more often than Illinois tonight. But if anyone tries to tell me that would make up the 13 point difference, I'll laugh them out of the room.

[LittleHurt05]

Losing at home to Tennessee St.? Don't worry Murray State, it happens to the best of 'em. BRUUUUUUUUCE!!!!!

[Jenksismyhero]

I agree with those that said the referees lost control tonight. They tightened up so much that it ruined the flow of the game. That said, the calls were not one sided. And complaining just because of the FT discrepancy is short-sighted. All you had to do is watch the game and see why there were so many more. It had everything to do with the styles of play, not homer or favorable calls.

 

Illinois lost tonight because they weren't good enough. Brandon Paul was not very good. Leonard was strong early on, but faded. Especially in the 2nd half. Leonard's problem was in his head. Things got rough and he couldn't handle it. Sadly, he's the one that started that crap with the shove of Zeller at mid court early on. Richardson seemed to keep them in the game for awhile.

 

I thought IU played very sloppy in the first half. I was surprised about halfway through that it was a close game. I felt like we were behind. Hulls hit some big shots and they did a much better job of driving and getting the ball inside in the 2nd half creating a ton of opportunities.

 

Good win for the Hoosiers. Six games left, all are winnable. 4-2 is a more likely record. I'd like to see them win on the road at Iowa or Minny.

 

But the problem is you're not allowing two teams to play on an equal floor. The first half was physical and guys were bodying everywhere. Go watch the first ten minutes again. Brandon Paul drove the ball consistently, got hit and nothing was called. In the second half, after the refs lost control of the game, those calls were made every single trip down the floor for Indiana. Yes, that's because Indiana drives the ball and Illinois shoots jumpshots, and that's the fault of Illinois (and Paul specifically) for not adapting. But that's still horses*** officiating that is CONSISTENTLY TERRIBLE in big ten play. That slugfest between MSU and ILL was at least acceptable because the refs decided at the start it was going to be a bruising physical game, and they didn't change.

 

And yeah, Leonard failed to show up in the 2nd half because was in foul trouble. The whole Illinois team was in foul trouble. That's not discrediting IU's play, it's just the nature of how the game was lost by the refs. Ultimately the refs did alter the outcome because of it. It's hard enough to win on the road in the big ten, it's nearly impossible when the refs give IU that much of an advantage.

 

Again, I find it telling that Crean even laughed when he talked about the number of free throws they took.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Jenksismybitch

[Jenksismyhero]

Eh, my problem with complaining about refs is that personally, I try really really hard to not let it affect how I view the game. This means I strive to be cognizant of the calls my team gets and the ones they don't get, and people who complain about the refs often forget about all the calls their team DID get.

 

My other thing is that it's very, very rare a bad call actually gives a team points. They often give a team a chance to score points, but it's up to the team to capitalize on that opportunity, and I try not to take that away from the players. Yes, I realize that the more chances a team has, the more likely it is they'll score more...but my point is that there still a critical element of a team performing well enough to capitalize on those opportunities.

 

I agree that IU got the benefit more often than Illinois tonight. But if anyone tries to tell me that would make up the 13 point difference, I'll laugh them out of the room.

 

Probably not, and I agree that IU played a better game. It's just upsetting because it was a great, even first half, and when things got chippy the refs could have pulled Zeller and Leonard aside to tell them to stop (or call a technical or something) and move on. Their little scrum didn't need to change the otherwise clean, physical game that was being played by everyone else. Instead the refs reacted like the normally do - they start blowing the whistle on bulls*** calls. Someone flops hard and they react accordingly without seeing that it's a flop. They were anticipating calls that second half in an attempt to alter the style of play.

 

 

[Chisoxfn]

There is something about Northwestern that always gets Iowa. Disappointing. I was hoping for a big win against NU (and what would have been the Hawkeyes longest winning streak in the big 10 in forever). They are still a not so good team though (significantly better than before) but very up and down and defensively they are bad.

[farmteam]

Probably not, and I agree that IU played a better game. It's just upsetting because it was a great, even first half, and when things got chippy the refs could have pulled Zeller and Leonard aside to tell them to stop (or call a technical or something) and move on. Their little scrum didn't need to change the otherwise clean, physical game that was being played by everyone else. Instead the refs reacted like the normally do - they start blowing the whistle on bulls*** calls. Someone flops hard and they react accordingly without seeing that it's a flop. They were anticipating calls that second half in an attempt to alter the style of play.

 

I mostly agree with this, and I only qualify my agreement because you seem to either not realize or gloss over the fact that in the Leonard-Zeller battle over the course of the game, Leonard was the one doing more stupid, overt stuff. That push at midcourt early in the first half? EASILY could have been a flagrant.

 

The key word in those last two sentences is "overt." I'm not saying Zeller wasn't ragging on Leonard or whatever, but if he was it was in a way that was much harder to discern. Like it or not, the refs are going to call (or maybe give the player a talk) the player that they see doing all the overt acts.

 

Leonard lost his cool way too much. It wasn't as obvious last night, but watching over the course of the season Zeller has consistently been very good about doing nothing more than smirking in disbelief if there's a bad call on him. Doesn't talk, whine, whatever, he just keeps playing the game (while being cognizatnt of how many fouls he then has, and how the game is being called). I haven't seen all the Illini games so I can't comment if Leonard is normally like that, but last night he certainly was acting immature.

 

I thought the play that most epitomized the matchup of the big men last night was when early in the 2nd half Leonard turns it over/gets blocked/misses the shot (I honestly can't remember) and starts whining about the call to the ref. In the mean time, IU pushes the ball up the court, Zeller races all the way down the floor and slams it in (and gets the And-1 because a pointless foul by Myke Henry). I'm not even saying Leonard didn't have a right to be upset (as I said, I can't exactly remember the preceding play), but even if he did, wait for a dead ball to talk to the refs! He had more important things to do at the time, like you know, guarding his man.

[Jenksismyhero]

I mostly agree with this, and I only qualify my agreement because you seem to either not realize or gloss over the fact that in the Leonard-Zeller battle over the course of the game, Leonard was the one doing more stupid, overt stuff. That push at midcourt early in the first half? EASILY could have been a flagrant.

 

The key word in those last two sentences is "overt." I'm not saying Zeller wasn't ragging on Leonard or whatever, but if he was it was in a way that was much harder to discern. Like it or not, the refs are going to call (or maybe give the player a talk) the player that they see doing all the overt acts.

 

Leonard lost his cool way too much. It wasn't as obvious last night, but watching over the course of the season Zeller has consistently been very good about doing nothing more than smirking in disbelief if there's a bad call on him. Doesn't talk, whine, whatever, he just keeps playing the game (while being cognizatnt of how many fouls he then has, and how the game is being called). I haven't seen all the Illini games so I can't comment if Leonard is normally like that, but last night he certainly was acting immature.

 

I thought the play that most epitomized the matchup of the big men last night was when early in the 2nd half Leonard turns it over/gets blocked/misses the shot (I honestly can't remember) and starts whining about the call to the ref. In the mean time, IU pushes the ball up the court, Zeller races all the way down the floor and slams it in (and gets the And-1 because a pointless foul by Myke Henry). I'm not even saying Leonard didn't have a right to be upset (as I said, I can't exactly remember the preceding play), but even if he did, wait for a dead ball to talk to the refs! He had more important things to do at the time, like you know, guarding his man.

 

No I fully recognize that, even if I didn't say it clearly. But Zeller wasn't 100% innocent. He got some shots in, especially in the first 10 minutes. The Leonard thing to start the game was dumb and could have easily been called a foul or a flagrant (and probably should have been). But Zeller has a knack, including on that play, to flop outrageously. To his credit, BECAUSE he doesn't b**** and whine like Leonard, he gets the benefit of the doubt and gets those calls.

 

The one play that just really irked me was the moving screen on Leonard. 99% of the game that s*** wasn't called, and it was only because of the way the game was going that the refs basically thought to themselves "if he touches a guy i'm going to assume that he's picking a fight and will call a foul." Sure enough that's EXACTLY what happened...even the announcers caught onto it. And to continue being moronic, the refs basically knew they f***ed up the call, because I think it was the next time down the court they called 25 on Indiana for the same s***. That's when they officially lost control of the game. Calling fouls left and right just to settle everyone down. Why not pull Leonard aside and warn him as he's coming back into the game? Why not explain to him what happens if he even looks like he's starting to get too physical (again, a laugher given how they were able to bang earlier in the game)? Shoot, why not talk to both coaches and tell them to calm their players down?

 

And yes, Leonard is amazingly immature and even as a diehard Illini fan i've become less and less of a fan of him. He thinks he's the s*** even though he's really been only "good" this season...a stretch since he's not exactly carrying the team. He's hardly been great or outstanding. It's the Demetri McCamey problem from last year - ESPN does a story or two on him, everyone talks about being drafted, so he's become a cocky player that whines constantly (though in McCamey's case it was less whining and more expectation that he didn't have to work or play well to win). It's the main reason he needs to come back for another year, because that stuff won't fly in the NBA.

 

 

[Balta1701]

The one play that just really irked me was the moving screen on Leonard. 99% of the game that s*** wasn't called, and it was only because of the way the game was going that the refs basically thought to themselves "if he touches a guy i'm going to assume that he's picking a fight and will call a foul." Sure enough that's EXACTLY what happened...even the announcers caught onto it.

That was an awful call.

[whitesoxfan99]

That was an awful call.

 

That is one of those calls that by the letter of the rule is the right call but if you call that there is a moving screen committed on every single possession during a basketball game and there are moving screens significantly worse than that not called on a significant number of possessions each game. To call that in a 3 pt game with Leonard having 3 fouls is inexcusable. But college refs are amazing incompetent so it doesn't surprise me. The leap in reffing ability from college to the NBA is nearly as big of a jump as the basketball talent.

[Jenksismyhero]

Gus Johnson is horrible. Why do people like him?

 

You have a backer:

 

http://nymag.com/daily/sports/2012/02/sorr...e-terrible.html

 

As I told a friend, he makes the mundane exciting, but for 90% of the broadcast he's average at best. Put him with Jackson, Mr. "I'm going to say the team needs to do X, which is always wrong, and then continue to talk about it as if that's what they're doing, even though they're not," and it's a pretty terrible tandem.

 

 

[farmteam]

You have a backer:

 

http://nymag.com/daily/sports/2012/02/sorr...e-terrible.html

 

As I told a friend, he makes the mundane exciting, but for 90% of the broadcast he's average at best. Put him with Jackson, Mr. "I'm going to say the team needs to do X, which is always wrong, and then continue to talk about it as if that's what they're doing, even though they're not," and it's a pretty terrible tandem.

 

I love Gus Johnson, but Jim Jackson is terrible. Almost as bad as Shon Morris!

 

[fathom]

That is one of those calls that by the letter of the rule is the right call but if you call that there is a moving screen committed on every single possession during a basketball game and there are moving screens significantly worse than that not called on a significant number of possessions each game. To call that in a 3 pt game with Leonard having 3 fouls is inexcusable. But college refs are amazing incompetent so it doesn't surprise me. The leap in reffing ability from college to the NBA is nearly as big of a jump as the basketball talent.

 

The second the refs called that foul, I thought it was due to them being annoyed with Leonard's demeanor on the court.

[TaylorStSox]

The second the refs called that foul, I thought it was due to them being annoyed with Leonard's demeanor on the court.

This has been ongoing theme at UI with multiple players. It starts at the top. Weber whines, the kids whine...The refs react.

[Brian]

Why is Mizzou/Baylor not on TV? this would be my first shot at seeing the Tigers on TV. Ugh

[Rowand44]

Why is Mizzou/Baylor not on TV? this would be my first shot at seeing the Tigers on TV. Ugh

Hooray espn3. Seriously though, extremely lame.

 

Anywho, I'm pumped for the 3 hrs of basketball between 3 and 6 today, Creighton-Wichita and UNLV-SDSU, awesomness.

[IlliniKrush]

This has been ongoing theme at UI with multiple players. It starts at the top. Weber whines, the kids whine...The refs react.

Please feel free to expand with examples. Bruce is the only coach to "whine" or talk to officials during a game? You must not watch a lot of basketball.

 

Plus, Leonard is who he is, he gets that from himself.

 

[danman31]

Why is Mizzou/Baylor not on TV? this would be my first shot at seeing the Tigers on TV. Ugh

Yeah, it's awful. The ESPN3 stream isn't even in hi def.

[Brian]

So that was a pretty strong finish by Cuse

[Quin]

Yeah, it's awful. The ESPN3 stream isn't even in hi def.

 

My best friend is in town and they won't let him in without an ID, even though we have a ticket.

[Brian]

Nice debut for Blackshear.