SoxAce Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 I liked the trade because I was never a fan of Chris Young as a prospect when he was here. (Jason and danman can attest to that) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 You guys aren't even mentioning the possibility that Jackson could very well keep us in the playoff hunt whereas Hudson might not? There are actually huge potential financial ramifications, especially with Peavy being a question mark, that make claiming the deal is a financial failure for the White Sox regardless of any possible outcome simply ridiculous. J4L, I know you are smarter than this, and you're just being stubborn in refusing to admit there are all sorts of possibilities which occur which might make this deal swing in either direction ultimately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 06:22 PM) You guys aren't even mentioning the possibility that Jackson could very well keep us in the playoff hunt whereas Hudson might not? That's exactly my standard for judging the trade's success/fail, if you recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 04:25 PM) That's exactly my standard for judging the trade's success/fail, if you recall. Yeah, I'm frustrated with the J4L/Rowand camp... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Yeah, I'm frustrated with the J4L/Rowand camp... The thing is we're only going by "what ifs" and if you maximized those comparisons Hudson is more valuable. "What if" they both are amazing this year? Hell, what if neither of them are? Either way, we only got Jackson for this year IIRC (correct me of I'm wrong) as opposed to like 5 for Hudson. And since Hudson is a "potentially good" prospect and Edwin in the past hasn't been very relevant, it's just an overall painful comparison; but at face value, looking at all the important factors, it was a bad trade. Like I said, the ONLY way it turns into a good trade is if we make the playoffs this year and that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Regardless of how Hudson pans out down the line, it's difficult to argue that Jackson didn't give us a better chance to win last season. And that was the entire point of the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 05:38 PM) The thing is we're only going by "what ifs" and if you maximized those comparisons Hudson is more valuable. "What if" they both are amazing this year? Hell, what if neither of them are? Either way, we only got Jackson for this year IIRC (correct me of I'm wrong) as opposed to like 5 for Hudson. And since Hudson is a "potentially good" prospect and Edwin in the past hasn't been very relevant, it's just an overall painful comparison; but at face value, looking at all the important factors, it was a bad trade. Like I said, the ONLY way it turns into a good trade is if we make the playoffs this year and that's it. You keep repeating this, but given our roster, that simply is not true. There are untold possible benefits based on Jackson being a core contributor to our rotation, and given the points they are at in their careers, the chances of Jackson being that are greater than they are for Hudson, regardless of Jackson's consistency issues in the past. Should we not make the postseason this year, and Jackson walks away, and Hudson turns into a better than league-average starter over the course of the next 5 years, than yes, I will admit the trade was not won by us. But the odds of Hudson doing that are not exactly short either. This isn't even considering whatever players we might select from drafts pick(s) received, should Jackson leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 04:36 PM) No when the trade first happened, the main b**** about Javy was that how could the Sox give up on The Chris Young. The Sox traded El Duque for Vazquez plus cash Vazquez was set to make $11.5 mil, El Duque was to make 4.6 mil + he had a 2 mil bonus on innings. Thus when Vaz was first acquired his total cost in terms of money was 11.5-4.6 = 6.9 and the Sox got more cash on top of that. He didnt become overpaid for the Sox until they resigned him to a new contract. But lets not talk about facts. (Edit) Strangesox, lol Okay that makes a lot more sense, it caught me off guard because J4L quoted it like it was a serious statement and that it was actually a good argument. I generally do take comments like that as humorous. Most people liked the Vazquez trade, as I recall. Then he underachieved and was paid too much, so everyone justifiably turned against him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 I liked the Javy deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 You keep repeating this, but given our roster, that simply is not true. There are untold possible benefits based on Jackson being a core contributor to our rotation, and given the points they are at in their careers, the chances of Jackson being that are greater than they are for Hudson, regardless of Jackson's consistency issues in the past. Should we not make the postseason this year, and Jackson walks away, and Hudson turns into a better than league-average starter over the course of the next 5 years, than yes, I will admit the trade was not won by us. But the odds of Hudson doing that are not exactly short either. This isn't even considering whatever players we might select from drafts pick(s) received, should Jackson leave. I keep repeating it and yet you appear to keep missing the point: it doesn't MATTER because he's gone after the year (again, if I'm wrong please correct me); it doesn't matter HOW good he becomes unless we make the playoffs because the chances we re-sign him are slim to none. If and only if he make the playoffs will I say the trade was worth it but still going by how the trade looked at the time IMO it was not a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 04:32 PM) I liked the Javy deal. Same here. We needed pitching more than we needed Chris Young back in 2006 and 2007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 03:40 PM) That's what pisses me off right there. We keep coming up with the worst case scenario when it comes to Hudson but the best case when it comes to Jackson. Hudson doesn't have to become Clayton Kershaw to make this trade a loser from the Sox's end. No matter what Jackson does. Actually that isn't true at all. The assumption has been pretty clear that Hudson will be a decent pitcher. Most of the Hudson talk centers around that assumption. If he isn't a decent pitcher, then he isn't a bargain at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Actually that isn't true at all. The assumption has been pretty clear that Hudson will be a decent pitcher. Most of the Hudson talk centers around that assumption. If he isn't a decent pitcher, then he isn't a bargain at all. I dunno from most of the arguments I'm seeing J4L is pretty correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 06:47 PM) I keep repeating it and yet you appear to keep missing the point: it doesn't MATTER because he's gone after the year (again, if I'm wrong please correct me); it doesn't matter HOW good he becomes unless we make the playoffs because the chances we re-sign him are slim to none. If and only if he make the playoffs will I say the trade was worth it but still going by how the trade looked at the time IMO it was not a good one. I don't know what you are arguing then. I have basically stated in about 4 different ways that if we make the playoffs at least partially due to him in the rotation then I believe the gamble was worth it. I just don't really give two flying f***s how the trade looked at the time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 I'm just trying to enjoy Jackson in the present and not worry about how we will likely lose him after the season. I thought we overpaid, but what the hell. s*** maybe if he has a great year and we win something of significance he'll like Chicago and want to stay, giving us a Konerko discount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 I just don't really give two flying f***s how the trade looked at the time... The same as it looks now if you think hard enough about it. Trust me, I was optimistic about Jackson; that didn't change the idea for me that it was longevity-wise and financially a pretty damn bad trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 03:08 PM) Jackson for Hudson will be an economic fail no matter what happens. That's the key. All thing being equal and I'd be fine with the trade. If Jackson has a breakout year then he's looking at 5 years and at least $70-75 million. And then we've still got the two giant elephants in the room that is Danks and Buehrle to worry about. And a farm in which Wite would be the team's top pitching prospect. And hes's garbage. Played some catch today. I think I was getting my fastball into the 75-78 range, and my curveball was breaking about 3 inches. Just rounding into game shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 9, 2011 -> 01:19 AM) I'm just trying to enjoy Jackson in the present and not worry about how we will likely lose him after the season. I thought we overpaid, but what the hell. s*** maybe if he has a great year and we win something of significance he'll like Chicago and want to stay, giving us a Konerko discount. Boras client...good luck with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 04:57 PM) lol Though old posts probably should be brought up. I'm sure we've all said some dumb-ass things for as long as some of us have been here. Oh my goodness. You're gonna roast me over a post I made 6 years ago? lol. Different times and I was a different poster then. KW deserved the benefit of the doubt back then. But not now. And lol@my botched spelling of Javy's last name. Brutal. Edited April 9, 2011 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 So if you project two years out, who is even likely to be in our rotation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 11:04 PM) So if you project two years out, who is even likely to be in our rotation? Gavin Floyd Addison Reed Jacob Petricka Roadkill Puke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 I was going to say: Peavy Floyd Sale FA Prospect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 11:04 PM) So if you project two years out, who is even likely to be in our rotation? Jake Peavy Chris Sale Gavin Floyd Gio Gonzalez Carlos Zambrano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Buehrle Floyd Sale Peavy AAA guy or trade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 11:04 PM) So if you project two years out, who is even likely to be in our rotation? I would bet there will be three guys not in the system right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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