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4/8/11 - Sox vs. Rays - 7:10 (WCIU)


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QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 10:37 PM)
No, Pauly literally had no shot at that ball from where it bounced and who the hell cares if he knocks it down or not? It's not like it was the tying run getting into scoring position.

 

A run scored on the passed ball

 

And Pierre is actually a very good lf who made just a horrendous play in that inning.

 

Did you throw-up in your mouth while typing this?

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 08:44 PM)
I would give Matt the next save opportunity because of circumstances tonight.

If he sucks, I'd start closer by committee first with Sergio/Sale.

 

I'd give Matt at least a couple more opportunities before I entertain the thought of moving Santos or Sale into the closer role. But that doesn't mean that I can't be concerned about him right now.

 

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Remember that maxim we always hear...."great pitchers pitch over mistakes"?

 

You just had the feeling that even though he COULD have gotten out of the inning that it was going to get away from Thornton.

 

Sale was in a similar situation earlier this week when he could have collapsed/imploded (after the blown two run lead in a previous game) and he manned up. There's always been something about Thornton (and not just because he basically throws one pitch) that has worried me as the closer.

 

Of course, it's easy to say now, but there were quite a few reservations. And it's not like some LH hitters haven't touched him up.

 

Personally, I'd go with Santos.

 

And it sucks to kill some of the "buzz" this team was generating before the home fans in the early season.

 

 

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Ken Patterson, Wayne Edwards, and Scott Radinsky would like to have a word with you.

 

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 10:47 PM)
Santos is the best option to close IMO. Problem with that is Crain is the only other reliable right-hander and there is no reason to carry 3 left-handers in a bullpen that has a right-handed closer.
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QUOTE (whtsoxfan @ Apr 9, 2011 -> 03:48 AM)
Stats so far Sox have led EVERY game thus far but are only 4-3

Sox also lead MLB in errors

 

Leading the MLB in errors is very scary.

We won't even contend with crappy defense.

Tonight's loss is entirely on ninth inning defense.

Scary post.

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QUOTE (chw42 @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 10:37 PM)
I don't know how you can call him awful. Will Ohman's been awful. You don't judge a player by 3 appearances, especially when there were two errors made behind him in the only blowup he's had so far.

 

For Thornton, hes been awful.. Its hard not to judge Throntons performance in the closers role this early when we are all use to him coming in and being nails.. thats why its easier to judge this, clearly, something is off with him in this new role

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QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 09:43 PM)
Those two runs we gave away due to bad base running came back to haunt us as well. Gotta stop giving up outs on the bases.

 

 

Well, the time Morel was thrown out at the plate...95% of the time that ball doesn't bounce back directly to the catcher in that way, not at USCF.

 

Really a bad break at the time when we had runners at 1st and 3rd with Beckham up and no outs.

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As bad as the defense is, how long can a pitcher get away with throwing only fastballs?

 

Even if he has no confidence in his second pitch in a three run game you have to throw your other stuff. Just so that people even believe that you are willing to throw it.

 

That is my biggest concern, Pierre and Ramirez arent going to repeat those errors that often, but there was no reason for Matt shouldnt have at least tried to throw a few offspeed pitches early in the inning to mix it up.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 9, 2011 -> 03:50 AM)
Leading the MLB in errors is very scary.

We won't even contend with crappy defense.

Tonight's loss is entirely on ninth inning defense.

Scary post.

 

To me, the 6th/7th inning where Tampa had 7 of their 9 hitters reach woke up their offense from their season-long nap. I'm just disappointed that Thornton hasn't been able to convert the save opps he's had and keep this bullpen in order.

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QUOTE (T R U @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 10:51 PM)
For Thornton, hes been awful.. Its hard not to judge Throntons performance in the closers role this early when we are all use to him coming in and being nails.. thats why its easier to judge this, clearly, something is off with him in this new role

 

If you're talking about somebody who has very little credentials as a reliever (like John Axford), then maybe it is fair to panic, but you're talking about one of the best relievers in baseball in the past three seasons. To say he simply doesn't have enough to close a ball game when he has a career 2.93 ERA in save situations and a career 3.09 ERA in the 9th inning is once again, panicking. A sample size of 3 innings really doesn't tell you much about a reliever.

Edited by chw42
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QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 9, 2011 -> 03:55 AM)
To me, the 6th/7th inning where Tampa had 7 of their 9 hitters reach woke up their offense from their season-long nap. I'm just disappointed that Thornton hasn't been able to convert the save opps he's had and keep this bullpen in order.

 

Yet another fathom post I agree with.

I just hate that we woke them up from their nap. Really hate it.

When Teahen got that hit, I'd have bet anything we'd beaten this winless team.

Now wait, Tampa will be red hot tomorrow as well.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 9, 2011 -> 04:57 AM)
Yet another fathom post I agree with.

I just hate that we woke them up from their nap. Really hate it.

When Teahen got that hit, I'd have bet anything we'd beaten this winless team.

Now wait, Tampa will be red hot tomorrow as well.

 

Humber makes a lot of teams "red hot".

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QUOTE (flavum @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 10:49 PM)
Ken Patterson, Wayne Edwards, and Scott Radinsky would like to have a word with you.

 

I'll amend what I said. When you don't have a lefty closer and have two other capable lefty relievers, Ohman should not be in your bullpen.

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 10:52 PM)
As bad as the defense is, how long can a pitcher get away with throwing only fastballs?

 

Even if he has no confidence in his second pitch in a three run game you have to throw your other stuff. Just so that people even believe that you are willing to throw it.

 

That is my biggest concern, Pierre and Ramirez arent going to repeat those errors that often, but there was no reason for Matt shouldnt have at least tried to throw a few offspeed pitches early in the inning to mix it up.

 

This is how he's always pitched. His fastball at 97-98 is one of the most effective pitches in the league. Sure, you can have him try and throw his slider and his change-up (which he did tonight), but the fastball is still his out pitch. And even if hitters know it's coming, a well placed Thornton fastball is one of the hardest pitches to hit in the league. As shown by this: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...=2008&ind=0

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QUOTE (chw42 @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 10:56 PM)
If you're talking about somebody who has very little credentials as a reliever (like John Axford), then maybe it is fair to panic, but you're talking about one of the best relievers in baseball in the past three seasons. To say he simply doesn't enough to close a ball game when he has a career 2.93 ERA in save situations and a career 3.09 ERA in the 9th inning is one again, panicking. A sample size of 3 innings really doesn't tell you much about a reliever.

 

 

I think people are going more by "looks," body language, their own assumptions (positive and negative) about Thornton as closer, with most having pre-conceived notions of his ability to do the job.

 

Sometimes that ERA has been misleading, because he's given up a lot of runs over the course of his career that were inherited but not attributed to him.

 

Do you have his inherited runners scored numbers with the Sox?

 

I agree Ozzie and the team aren't panicking, but the fans and media definitely will be sounding the alarm bells. He's got to get right back out there tomorrow or Sunday and close another game or they'll have to shake things up for a week or two and see what happens.

 

Minnesota and Detroit aren't off to great starts either, but the White Sox (before last year) are a traditionally front-running team that doesn't chase teams down in the 2nd half.

Edited by caulfield12
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