Manny Ramirez (un)Retires

[witesoxfan]

Honestly? It kinda does.

 

Because he saw people use steroids or he could tell others were using steroids? No.

[Balta1701]

Because he saw people use steroids or he could tell others were using steroids? No.

Because he saw what it did to him, because he knew other people that were using and saw what it did to them.

 

One thing I always come back to is that for steroids, all we ever have is anecdotal information. Canseco probably has about the largest knowledge base of anyone as to what effects steroids have on baseball players.

[witesoxfan]

Because he saw what it did to him, because he knew other people that were using and saw what it did to them.

 

One thing I always come back to is that for steroids, all we ever have is anecdotal information. Canseco probably has about the largest knowledge base of anyone as to what effects steroids have on baseball players.

 

And he told these stories to sell a book, which isn't exactly the most noble of reasons to spill his beans. He has needed money for a while, which is why he continues with side projects at all times too, including boxing and independent baseball leagues. If he doesn't need money, do these every get told?

 

When it comes to speaking about players who used steroids, I trust Canseco. When it comes to the effects of steroids, it's harder to trust one source who has likely embellished quite a bit to sell books.

[Balta1701]

And he told these stories to sell a book, which isn't exactly the most noble of reasons to spill his beans. He has needed money for a while, which is why he continues with side projects at all times too, including boxing and independent baseball leagues. If he doesn't need money, do these every get told?

 

When it comes to speaking about players who used steroids, I trust Canseco. When it comes to the effects of steroids, it's harder to trust one source who has likely embellished quite a bit to sell books.

No one bought his book because he said he'd have been a minor leaguer without the roids.

 

People bought his book because he got the names right.

[StrangeSox]

Honestly? It kinda does.

 

No, it does not. At all.

[StrangeSox]

No one bought his book because he said he'd have been a minor leaguer without the roids.

 

People bought his book because he got the names right.

 

Based on information, stories, rumors.

 

Not on some amazing superhuman ability to determine exactly how a drug effects not only yourself without any sort of cognitive biases (placebo), but also how it effects others.

[Balta1701]

Based on information, stories, rumors.

 

Not on some amazing superhuman ability to determine exactly how a drug effects not only yourself without any sort of cognitive biases (placebo), but also how it effects others.

Actually, he has plenty of examples of how the same workouts affect people who aren't on steroids, unless the entire A's/Rangers/Yankees/White Sox teams were juicing.

 

He probably can tell you more about the effects of steroid use in athletes than almost anyone alive.

[MexSoxFan#1]

Ramirez should high tail it to the Dominican Republic before this nosey govt goes after him like they did with Bonds.

[StrangeSox]

He can't tell me how steroids affect "seeing the ball" and other baseball-specific stuff reliably at all, especially if he's trying to say how it impacted other people.

 

There's a reason plenty of people "know" that Power Balance bracelets "work," but it has nothing to do with them actually doing a damn thing.

[Balta1701]

Manroid arrested for battery in domestic dispute.

[Dick Allen]

And he told these stories to sell a book, which isn't exactly the most noble of reasons to spill his beans. He has needed money for a while, which is why he continues with side projects at all times too, including boxing and independent baseball leagues. If he doesn't need money, do these every get told?

 

When it comes to speaking about players who used steroids, I trust Canseco. When it comes to the effects of steroids, it's harder to trust one source who has likely embellished quite a bit to sell books.

You trust him? Really? The guy who said Clemens didn't uses steroids and is one guy who would never cheat on his wife? Then its later revealed Clemens gave him hush money. Canseco is a whore. You can have lunch with him for $100.

[Balta1701]

You trust him? Really? The guy who said Clemens didn't uses steroids and is one guy who would never cheat on his wife? Then its later revealed Clemens gave him hush money. Canseco is a whore. You can have lunch with him for $100.

(read the date on the post and note the thread bump on new news).

[southsider2k5]

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/rays/content..._medium=twitter

 

SEPTEMBER 13, 2011

Manny released from jail

 

From espn.com and the Associated Press: Former Ray Manny Ramirez was released from jail Tuesday after authorities arrested him for allegedly slapping his wife during a dispute at their South Florida home.

 

manny.pngRamirez was released from the Broward County Jail on $2,500 bail on the domestic battery charge. Broward Circuit Judge Jon Hurley ordered that he have no direct contact with his wife.

 

Broward sheriff's officials say the 39-year-old Ramirez was arguing Monday afternoon with his wife, Juliana, when he slapped her face, causing her to hit her head on their bed's headboard. She told the deputy she was afraid the situation would escalate.

 

Authorities say Ramirez denied hitting his wife.

 

On the tape of the 911 call, released Tuesday by the Broward Sheriff's Office, Juliana Ramirez tells the sheriff's dispatcher, "My husband just hit me."

 

She told the dispatcher she was struck on her face and head and had a bump on her head. Later, she declined medical attention.

 

Ramirez was met by several family members when he left the jail just before noon ET Tuesday, getting into a white Cadallic Escalade.

 

A knot of reporters and television cameras had followed him to the parking lot, but he refused to answer questions saying, "Let me see, where's my family?"

 

When a reporter said, "You have to give us something," Ramirez replied, "Not my problem."

 

He spoke to another TV reporter in Spanish and put his arm around two of the female reporters. He was wearing a tight T-shirt and dark, low-slung pants.

 

One woman, who identified herself as his sister, spoke briefly.

 

"He's my brother, we love him no matter what. He's an amazing guy and we love him no matter what," she said before rolling up the window. She refused to give her name.

 

Ramirez retired in April from the Tampa Bay Rays after he tested positive for a performance-enhancing substance. Rather than face a 100-game suspension for a second violation of Major League Baseball's drug policy, the 12-time All-Star left the game.

 

Ramirez previously served a 50-game ban in 2009 with the Los Angeles Dodgers. Second-time offenders get double that penalty.

 

Ramirez was named MVP of the World Series in 2004 and helped the Boston Red Sox end an 86-year title drought.

 

He was selected 13th overall by the Cleveland Indians in the 1991 amateur draft out of New York City and rose quickly through the minor leagues with a youthful exuberance and natural charisma.

 

He broke into the majors in 1993 and played his first full season the following year, when he finished second to the Royals' Bob Hamlin in voting for rookie of the year honors.

 

He signed with the Red Sox as a free agent in December 2000, helping the long-suffering franchise win the World Series a few years later, then doing it again in 2007.

 

The Red Sox traded him to the Dodgers in July 2008. He instantly became a fan favorite on the West Coast, with "Mannywood" signs popping up around town, as he led Los Angeles to the NL West title and a sweep of the Chicago Cubs in the playoffs. The clutch performances earned Ramirez a $45 million, two-year contract.

 

All of that goodwill fizzled the following May, when Ramirez tested positive for human chorionic gonadotropin, a banned female fertility drug often used to help mask steroid use.

 

The Rays had hoped Ramirez could add some pop to a lineup that lost several key pieces off last year's AL East champions, but he played in only five games for the Rays, with one hit in 17 at-bats.

 

Ramirez was a .312 career hitter with 13 seasons of 100-plus RBIs and 555 home runs, 14th on the all-time list.

[Rowand44]

The 9-1-1 call was interesting, she didn't seem scared or worried at all.

[southsider2k5]

jcrasnick Jerry Crasnick

Manny Ramirez is going to have to scratch those plans to play in the Dominican Republic, an MLB official told ESPN.com.

 

jcrasnick Jerry Crasnick

Since Manny has "unresolved drug program violations'' and the Dominican League is affiliated w/ MLB, he is ineligible to play there.

 

[max power]

jcrasnick Jerry Crasnick

Manny Ramirez is going to have to scratch those plans to play in the Dominican Republic, an MLB official told ESPN.com.

 

jcrasnick Jerry Crasnick

Since Manny has "unresolved drug program violations'' and the Dominican League is affiliated w/ MLB, he is ineligible to play there.

Now he is seeking reinstatement.

[southsider2k5]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/rumbli...-prince-fielder

 

Ready to Rumble

 

xxx

Ramirez

 

• How about this for an international incident waiting to happen: Manny Ramirez in Japan? A source with ties to Japanese baseball tells Rumblings that Manny had a Florida tryout for a Japanese team (the Fukuoka Softbank Hawks) a couple of weeks ago, but "it didn't go well." And what was the hang-up? "The Japanese don't like 'baggage' in a player," the source said, "no matter how talented he might be." Wait. Manny has baggage? Never noticed.

[Whitewashed in '05]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/rumbli...-prince-fielder

HA! So they made him go to Florida, try out, and said no thanks we don't like baggage?

[witesoxfan]

You trust him? Really? The guy who said Clemens didn't uses steroids and is one guy who would never cheat on his wife? Then its later revealed Clemens gave him hush money. Canseco is a whore. You can have lunch with him for $100.

 

Kind of funny you disagreed with me on this. It's humorously ironic on any number of levels. I trust that the guy heard any number of things, had a good feel as to who was using and who wasn't, but generally think the guy wrote the book and mentioned the names for a reason - that being money. So someone gave him money to STFU about him not using steroids? Does that surprise you? It doesn't surprise me in the least. Roger Clemens made $150 mill playing baseball, and that's not including any endorsement or side projects he took part in. Him parting with $10K (based entirely upon his MLB compensation) is roughly the same as a middle-upper class American giving $100-$500, and an upper class American $1,000. Canseco could use every single bit of it.

 

It doesn't particularly surprise me that he mentioned 9 names and George Mitchell mentioned 80 more. One did it for money, one did it for justice.

 

Bottomline, Canseco IS a whore. You'd be hard-pressed to find anybody who disagrees with that, even Balta.

 

---

 

Oh, and without knowing the levels at which Manny took steroids and any other PEDs, it's generally impossible to know what type of player he could have been. I don't know that Sammy Sosa was ever implicated on steroid use, but, unless he came out and admitted he used and when he started, it's impossible to know what type of player he was with and without steroids. Scouting reports suggested he had monstrous power ability and that he was a potential 30/30 threat when he was with the Sox, and he was not with the Sox long [baseball Digest, ca. 1992]. He was damn near a 40/40 player with the Cubs and was a 30/30 player twice with them before '98. At some point, natural talent DOES come into effect. You can be hyperbolic and say "because (said player) used steroids, they are just as likely to be a minor leaguer then they are a potential hall of famer." That seems to be the Bud Fox argument, and I simply can't agree with that. If a player is terrible, steroids make him bad; if he is bad, they make him not bad; if he is not bad, they make him mediocre; if he is mediocre, they make him OK..." Until we have proof otherwise, we can't make a fair assumption, so anybody MAKING assumptions is incredibly and inevitably wrong.

 

The safest bet of all is to say "we do not know how good these players are or were without performance enhancing drugs, and we never will; thus, not only due to ethical reasoning, but general lack of perspective and knowledge, we cannot elect these players into the Hall of Fame, even considering their contributions to the game."

[LittleHurt05]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/rumbli...-prince-fielder

 

How about this for an international incident waiting to happen: Manny Ramirez in Japan? A source with ties to Japanese baseball tells Rumblings that Manny had a Florida tryout for a Japanese team (the Fukuoka Softbank Hawks) a couple of weeks ago, but "it didn't go well." And what was the hang-up? "The Japanese don't like 'baggage' in a player," the source said, "no matter how talented he might be." Wait. Manny has baggage? Never noticed.

 

I dont't understand how the tryout went bad because of his baggage. Did the Japanese know nothing about him before they showed up to Florida? A simple Google search would tell them all they need to know. No need to fly halfway around the world to tell him that.

[Balta1701]

I dont't understand how the tryout went bad because of his baggage. Did the Japanese know nothing about him before they showed up to Florida? A simple Google search would tell them all they need to know. No need to fly halfway around the world to tell him that.

Maybe they did a drug test/physical/personal evaluation on him after he showed up.

[LittleHurt05]

Maybe they did a drug test/physical/personal evaluation on him after he showed up.

 

That would make sense. But like I said, it's Manny Ramirez. All of his "baggage" has been well documented over his entire career. Did they really think he would have suddenly changed over the past 6 months? They went all the way to Florida to find out?

[Kyyle23]

Kind of funny you disagreed with me on this. It's humorously ironic on any number of levels. I trust that the guy heard any number of things, had a good feel as to who was using and who wasn't, but generally think the guy wrote the book and mentioned the names for a reason - that being money. So someone gave him money to STFU about him not using steroids? Does that surprise you? It doesn't surprise me in the least. Roger Clemens made $150 mill playing baseball, and that's not including any endorsement or side projects he took part in. Him parting with $10K (based entirely upon his MLB compensation) is roughly the same as a middle-upper class American giving $100-$500, and an upper class American $1,000. Canseco could use every single bit of it.

 

It doesn't particularly surprise me that he mentioned 9 names and George Mitchell mentioned 80 more. One did it for money, one did it for justice.

 

Bottomline, Canseco IS a whore. You'd be hard-pressed to find anybody who disagrees with that, even Balta.

 

---

 

Oh, and without knowing the levels at which Manny took steroids and any other PEDs, it's generally impossible to know what type of player he could have been. I don't know that Sammy Sosa was ever implicated on steroid use, but, unless he came out and admitted he used and when he started, it's impossible to know what type of player he was with and without steroids. Scouting reports suggested he had monstrous power ability and that he was a potential 30/30 threat when he was with the Sox, and he was not with the Sox long [baseball Digest, ca. 1992]. He was damn near a 40/40 player with the Cubs and was a 30/30 player twice with them before '98. At some point, natural talent DOES come into effect. You can be hyperbolic and say "because (said player) used steroids, they are just as likely to be a minor leaguer then they are a potential hall of famer." That seems to be the Bud Fox argument, and I simply can't agree with that. If a player is terrible, steroids make him bad; if he is bad, they make him not bad; if he is not bad, they make him mediocre; if he is mediocre, they make him OK..." Until we have proof otherwise, we can't make a fair assumption, so anybody MAKING assumptions is incredibly and inevitably wrong.

 

The safest bet of all is to say "we do not know how good these players are or were without performance enhancing drugs, and we never will; thus, not only due to ethical reasoning, but general lack of perspective and knowledge, we cannot elect these players into the Hall of Fame, even considering their contributions to the game."

 

 

I know that bag of money dropped in the Toronto airport raised a lot of eyebrows

[LittleHurt05]

The safest bet of all is to say "we do not know how good these players are or were without performance enhancing drugs, and we never will; thus, not only due to ethical reasoning, but general lack of perspective and knowledge, we cannot elect these players into the Hall of Fame, even considering their contributions to the game."

 

My issue with this is how do you decide who was a steroid user and who wasn't? Did they guy have to be caught by baseball? Or implicated criminally? Or can you just do the eye test?

 

It seems obvious that Sammy was a juicer, but he has never been really implicated in a case. How about a guy like Mike Piazza? People have him listed as a guaranteed Hall of Famer, but IMO he's just as obvious of a roider as the rest of them. There are some allegations out there, but nothing substantial. Why should he get in, because he didn't get caught?

[southsider2k5]

That would make sense. But like I said, it's Manny Ramirez. All of his "baggage" has been well documented over his entire career. Did they really think he would have suddenly changed over the past 6 months? They went all the way to Florida to find out?

 

What's next? Bringing Milton Bradley over only to find out he has emotional issues?