Government Shutdown on the clock thread

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I can't believe this. I can't believe this. I can't believe this.

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I was annoyed before, but figured it would work itself out. I'm honestly scared now.

[Balta1701]

Isn't a quorum 50%? If so, the 20 most moderate Republicans could say they'll go along with that, then sneak back and join the Democrats to pass something while they're gone.

The Democrats can't bring anything to the floor for a vote unless 20 house republicans fully break ranks with the speaker and bring a Democratic-led bill to the floor. So far the Democrats have tried to get them to sign on to a petition that would do so, but as far as I know 0 House Republicans have been willing to do so. Similarly, none have publicly endorsed doing so. Having a Senate "compromise" bill might change things but the senate compromise is virtually no different from the clean spending bills passed in the senate previously.

 

Basically, I wouldn't count on that happening.

[Soxbadger]

I was annoyed before, but figured it would work itself out. I'm honestly scared now.

 

Im not scared, Im angry.

 

If we dont pay our bills, we are deadbeats. Its as simple as that. I have never not paid a bill in the history of my existence. When I say "im going to do something" it has meaning.

 

I just cant understand how anyone can support this. Whether you are Republican or Democrat, I just dont see how you can support not paying bills for things we have already spent money on. Fight about future spending until the cows come home, but when you buy something, you pay for it.

 

And Im also angry because its making my country look like fools. We are becoming laughingstocks. Does no one even have pride in being an American anymore?

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Heh. Maybe the Senate leaders have the same fears we do... Senate have temporarily halted further work, to let the House finish their bill. House sources are saying their bill will allow for a simple majority vote in the Senate after amendment changes. So, the house can send a bill with whatever garbage amendments they want, the Senate can then do simply majority votes to strip certain aspects and pass the rest. This avoids the Cruz scenario. Also allows the house to say they "tried", and the house full vote will likely pass a relatively "clean" bill.

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

The House Republican leadership are now talking about passing their bill and then leaving town to prevent the House from even considering any legislation that will/could possibly pass the Senate.

Oops, didn't see this before that last post. If they do pull an O'Hare option here, that would be devastating, and incredibly stupid on so many levels. Even purely politically, the GOP is shooting themselves in both feet by doing that.

 

[Balta1701]

Heh. Maybe the Senate leaders have the same fears we do... Senate have temporarily halted further work, to let the House finish their bill. House sources are saying their bill will allow for a simple majority vote in the Senate after amendment changes. So, the house can send a bill with whatever garbage amendments they want, the Senate can then do simply majority votes to strip certain aspects and pass the rest. This avoids the Cruz scenario. Also allows the house to say they "tried", and the house full vote will likely pass a relatively "clean" bill.

Just so it's noted, this was the exact scenario they were doing on September 31, the House passed a bill with things they knew wouldn't pass the Senate, the Senate stripped them out and sent them back to the House, the House then refused to bring the altered bills to the floor.

[NorthSideSox72]

Just so it's noted, this was the exact scenario they were doing on September 31, the House passed a bill with things they knew wouldn't pass the Senate, the Senate stripped them out and sent them back to the House, the House then refused to bring the altered bills to the floor.

But you know this isn't September 31. It is different. If the house goes absentee on this, literally or figuratively, the GOP pays the bulk of the price politically. And EVERYONE ELSE IN THE COUNTRY pays the literal tab.

 

I would love to see legislation that says, if at any time Congress goes into shutdown or default, ALL chairs in both chambers automatically come up for election the next cycle AND none of the current reps or Senators can run.

 

Never happen, but would be great.

 

[Soxbadger]

But you know this isn't September 31. It is different. If the house goes absentee on this, literally or figuratively, the GOP pays the bulk of the price politically. And EVERYONE ELSE IN THE COUNTRY pays the literal tab.

 

I would love to see legislation that says, if at any time Congress goes into shutdown or default, ALL chairs in both chambers automatically come up for election the next cycle AND none of the current reps or Senators can run.

 

Never happen, but would be great.

 

What will happen is that they are going to vote themselves another raise for doing a bang up job!

 

Are any people who voted Republican okay with this? I mean, these are the guys they elected, so is this what they want?

[Jenksismyhero]

Nope.

[Soxbadger]

Nope.

 

Do you think that they just miscalculated and thought Obama would give in?

 

The most frustrating part of this for me is I just cant see the strategy. I wouldnt mind it as much if I really believed that Republican voters wanted the reps to do this. That is the point of representation. But this time I just feel like a certain few are doing what they want and dont really give a damn about anyone else.

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Do you think that they just miscalculated and thought Obama would give in?

 

The most frustrating part of this for me is I just cant see the strategy. I wouldnt mind it as much if I really believed that Republican voters wanted the reps to do this. That is the point of representation. But this time I just feel like a certain few are doing what they want and dont really give a damn about anyone else.

 

The crazy far right Reps live in crazy far right districts so they don't give a s***. Their constituents love this. I think it was Gawker or Slate that looked at those 9 guys and they all lived in heavy Republican districts. Even if you're not thrilled with what they're doing, you're probably not going to be swayed into voting for the other party.

 

I don't get why the rest of the house repubs don't call these guys morons and distance themselves as far as possible. Instead, they're publicly supporting them.

 

And I agree. I don't get the strategy. I would have let Obamacare fail (as it will) and then use that in the next election.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Jenksismybitch

[Quin]

Wait, what happened now? I feel like I missed something in class.

[Soxbadger]

And I agree. I don't get the strategy. I would have let Obamacare fail (as it will) and then use that in the next election.

 

I agree as well. Even if it doesnt fail, it will have problems.

[Balta1701]

Wait, what happened now? I feel like I missed something in class.

Nothing yet, just a lot of talk.

[Big Hurtin]

Do you think that they just miscalculated and thought Obama would give in?

 

The most frustrating part of this for me is I just cant see the strategy. I wouldnt mind it as much if I really believed that Republican voters wanted the reps to do this. That is the point of representation. But this time I just feel like a certain few are doing what they want and dont really give a damn about anyone else.

 

Laying the groundwork for impeachment. They hate him THAT much. (Not all, but the lunatic fringe)

 

[Jenksismyhero]

I don't really see impeachment being an issue here.

[Balta1701]

I don't really see impeachment being an issue here.

He's referencing a couple people (Rep Gohmert, Sarah Palin, Texas's Lt. Gov) who have said that if the U.S. defaults on its debt then it should be considered an impeachable offense. it's out there but has about as much support so far as you'd expect.

[Big Hurtin]

He's referencing a couple people (Rep Gohmert, Sarah Palin, Texas's Lt. Gov) who have said that if the U.S. defaults on its debt then it should be considered an impeachable offense. it's out there but has about as much support so far as you'd expect.

 

They're pushing him into a corner to invoke the 14th amendment.

[Soxbadger]

If they go for impeachment it will show how truly out of touch they are with society. Its the equivalent of Wisconsin fans asking that President of the NCAA be removed because of what happened during the ASU game. Its become absurd, and I honestly hope there are extreme consequences for this.

 

And the most troubling part, is that I actually believe some Republicans have good ideas. They just are unwilling to stand up for themselves.

 

They are US congressman and they dont have backbones, what the f*** have we become?

[Balta1701]

They're pushing him into a corner to invoke the 14th amendment.

Just so it's said, whether this actually would work isn't up to the president, his legal staff, or even the supreme court. It's up to bondholders, the people who would be coming in to buy the next issuance of bonds after the limit is hit.

 

And I personally wouldn't buy that bond unless the premium on it was huge.

 

There are almost guaranteed to be years, decades of legal challenges regarding any bond that is printed which is against the law. Eventually it would wind up in the supreme court, who might very well decide that the debt limit is constitutional and the bonds were illegal and now have no value.

 

The President doesn't get to interpret what's constitutional and he doesn't set the market price for bonds. If he tried to do that, the bond market goes absolutely insane at the very least.

[NorthSideSox72]

Adding to what was pointed out earlier, these minority of the GOP house that are extremists who live in districts who love this.... another key factor is, much of their electorate (and the electorate in general) has nearly no clue what the debt ceiling means and therefore think this is a good thing. Also, the whole GOP run-to-the-right primary elections thing is why the party at large is held hostage by the Tea Partiers.

 

That will end eventually of course, and in fact their influence has been waning for some time. Meanwhile, what is essentially happening here is, a small segment of the US population who is angry, ignorant of how government works, has no knowledge of history or economics, and who are scared to death of actual freedoms (meaning, protecting all freedoms) have temporarily won a lottery ticket to push the government around over the objections of the majority. We can all only hope that ends soon.

 

The ironic part of the beliefs of those extremists, to me, is that they want majority rule on the one subject area that cannot be majority rule (civil rights issues), but want their minority to rule on everything else.

 

[StrangeSox]

Isn't a quorum 50%? If so, the 20 most moderate Republicans could say they'll go along with that, then sneak back and join the Democrats to pass something while they're gone.

 

No, the House leadership changed the rules at the last minute on September 30th to ensure that only they can bring a bill to the floor.

[StrangeSox]

But you know this isn't September 31. It is different. If the house goes absentee on this, literally or figuratively, the GOP pays the bulk of the price politically. And EVERYONE ELSE IN THE COUNTRY pays the literal tab.

 

I would love to see legislation that says, if at any time Congress goes into shutdown or default, ALL chairs in both chambers automatically come up for election the next cycle AND none of the current reps or Senators can run.

 

Never happen, but would be great.

Guys September 31st isn't a real day.

[Balta1701]

Guys September 31st isn't a real day.

You have a point.