Government Shutdown on the clock thread

[StrangeSox]

Maybe they will cave, maybe they wont. But why wasnt this a big priority 10 years ago? Why wait until youre the minority party?

 

They haven't had control of the House for almost 8 years now, but you're not wrong that this should have been a bigger deal for years. However, Trump helped create this issue by ending DACA and drastically stepping up both anti-immigrant rhetoric and actions.

 

They'll cave because they have no more leverage today than they did yesterday and have yet to show a spine on this issue. This is millions of peoples' lives being torn apart and permanently damaged intentionally. If Democrats won't stand up to stop that despite repeatedly promising their base and immigrant groups that they would, what will they stand up for? Why should they continue to count on the support and votes of immigrant communities if they'll do nothing to protect them?

 

 

But they knew this problem was coming. It wasnt a surprise. This just wasnt a big issue for most people until it appeared to become politically advantageous. Obama and Congress could have passed a law greatly increasing immigrant rights, but I dont seem to recall it being that important then.

 

There were attempts in 2013 iirc, but the GOP has a strong anti-immigrant wing and controlled the House. Obama instituted the DACA program after bipartisan talks fell apart.

 

[Balta1701]

I have little doubt that both parties will introduce legal law to protected those affected by DACA. Even if that means the wall being part of the deal.

The Democrats already offered up some funding on the monument to how much we hate brown people on the southern border. Trump backing away from that deal was where the "we need fewer people from S***hole countries and more people from Norway" conversation came from.

[StrangeSox]

The Democrats already offered up some funding on the monument to how much we hate brown people on the southern border. Trump backing away from that deal was where the "we need fewer people from S***hole countries and more people from Norway" conversation came from.

 

Schumer offered even more money for the "eventual American recreation of the destruction of the Berlin Wall" and Rep. Gutierrez backed it, but it still wasn't enough for the anti-immigrant hardliners in Congress and the White House (Miller and Kelly).

[Soxbadger]

Like in 2010 when the Dream act passed the house got 55 votes on the floor of the senate?

 

5 Democrats voted no. Perhaps if they made that issue do or die, they could have gotten the votes. But the fact is that they let the issue fester, kicked it down the road and didnt realize that maybe one day the Republican party would be even more anti-immigrant.

 

They are going to have to make tough choices now, because ending DACA is just the first step, so if they dont take back 1 part of the legislature, its going to get even worse for immigrants.

[caulfield12]

The key political question is how far does the GOP go in overplaying their hand now...?

 

84-87% of Americans at least want the DACA kids to be protected, if not legalized (voting rights will be another contentious issue). They just didn’t like it being paired with budget issues/govnt shutdown.

 

The fact remains that how this is perceived in the eyes of the 30-40% of Americans in the political middle is what matters most. Trump wins whenever the discussion is about identical politics and allowing whites to feel aggrieved. That’s just a fact. The Dems need to focus on middle/working class dinner table issues and peel off those Trump voters who feel he’s just gone too far.

[brett05]

The Democrats already offered up some funding on the monument to how much we hate brown people on the southern border.

Not saying you per se, but this has nothing to do with race no matter how much folks want it to be

[caulfield12]

Not saying you per se, but this has nothing to do with race no matter how much folks want it to be

 

If they were illegal Melanias (nobody knows exactly how she was able to stay) and Ivanas from Slovenia and the Czech Republic, then we wouldn’t have ever heard about this issue. Or the Swedish/Finnish Bikini Team.

 

 

 

Speaking with Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.) on Monday morning at the gym, Schumer sought to find out what kind of immigration bill McConnell would agree to take up. Alexander told Schumer that he may be majority leader one day, and it would be best for him not to set the precedent of the minority dictating the legislative calendar to the majority, two Republican sources said.

 

A bipartisan group of senators that began meeting late last week provided the cover that both Schumer and McConnell needed. That group of more than 20 senators convened in the office of Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) on Friday, Saturday and Sunday hoping to drive a solution to the shutdown.

 

And though Schumer discussed the outlines of those talks with liberal senators who opposed them, he also quietly blessed the bipartisan working group.

 

Schumer "was encouraging us to try to keep the discussions going so that we could get a resolution,” said Sen. Angus King (I-Maine), who caucuses with the Democrats.

 

By the time progressives met Senate Minority Whip Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) on Sunday night, they knew their position was eroding, said a Democratic staffer with knowledge of the meeting.

politico.com

Edited January 23, 2018 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

The Dems might as well run this ad, lol...it would probably attract more Trump supporters away from him than Sanders, Pelosi, Booker, Harris and Gillibrand will draw from railing against the GOP.

 

 

Some Democrats voiced particularly strong dissent after news of the senators' deal. Alida Garcia, a strategist and advocate for immigrants' rights at the lobbying group FWD.us, announced she would cut ties with the party.

 

"I'm leaving the Democratic Party today," Garcia tweeted. She later called Democrats "liars."

 

"They're complicit w/ every single young person living in fear," she said. "Every pain Latino & immigrant families feel from here out is 100% due to @TheDemocrats not fully embracing us as American. Implicit racism is equally as harmful. I'm done."

http://www.businessinsider.com/democrats-a...vernment-2018-1

Edited January 23, 2018 by caulfield12

[Texsox]

Creating policy with guns to people's heads is a dangerous path. I'd support a constitutional amendment to make it illegal. I don't see a legal way however, to make that possible,

[caulfield12]

Creating policy with guns to people's heads is a dangerous path. I'd support a constitutional amendment to make it illegal. I don't see a legal way however, to make that possible,

 

https://smucker.house.gov/media/press-relea...nment-shutdowns

 

There are lots of similar ideas out there. On the Republican side, they (typically) want to automatically chop 1, 2 or even 5% across the board if a full year budget can’t be reached. Of course, that wouldn’t affect military spending, only discretionary spending areas.

 

You do realize the last two major shutdowns were GOP-led?

[Texsox]

https://smucker.house.gov/media/press-relea...nment-shutdowns

 

There are lots of similar ideas out there. On the Republican side, they (typically) want to automatically chop 1, 2 or even 5% across the board if a full year budget can’t be reached. Of course, that wouldn’t affect military spending, only discretionary spending areas.

 

You do realize the last two major shutdowns were GOP-led?

I do, but my position will not change if it was the Dems.

[caulfield12]

The problem now is that if the Dems take the border wall funding off the table, then Trump and especially the GOP House has more political cover for not voting after the Senate passes something.

 

Or, at the very least, the House version is going to have a ton of over the top border security provisions and the Senate will be a much softer version that has to be reconciled.

[Dick Allen]

This is fun

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/24/us/immigrati...trnd/index.html

[Balta1701]

Hey guess what...1 week away again.

[Kyyle23]

Hey guess what...1 week away again.

 

i noticed that today when Trump said Democrats obstruct everything again

[StrangeSox]

Hey guess what...1 week away again.

 

Also, thanks to the tax cuts, the government is projecting that we'll hit the debt ceiling in early March rather than late March/early April

[StrangeSox]

No? It's a revised estimate based specifically on a decrease in incoming revenues due to the tax law changes.

[Dam8610]

Or thanks to ridiculous unchecked government spending?

 

Absolutely agree here, all of the ridiculous military spending has to stop, or at least be kept in check somehow, and the DoD needs to undergo a full financial audit, regardless of how costly and time consuming they feel gathering the necessary documentation will be. Can you imagine what we could do with half of the military budget? Probably free college, free healthcare, and the trillion dollar infrastructure investment (If done over a 10 year period) without raising the deficit a penny.

[StrangeSox]

Officially getting another shutdown tonight

[Dick Allen]

The Republicans have sure changed their minds on spending and debt in the last year. I guess the real deal was they were so scared it would be spent on things that were needed, they wouldn't be able to spend it on things that were not, like making the rich richer and more nukes.

[caulfield12]

We’ve essentially added another $3 trillion to the deficit...giving the military far more than even they asked for (when they can’t even keep track of $500 million) despite having an economy that was finally humming along on its own without any government intervention.

 

Not to mention the increased costs of issuing more and more debt/bonds in the future, due to overheating that wasn’t called for except in Trump’s imagination.

 

Conservatives In Name Only.

Edited February 9, 2018 by caulfield12

[StrangeSox]

Democrats cave again with zero concessions on immigration.

 

Mass deportations will start next month.

[StrangeSox]

We’ve essentially added another $3 trillion to the deficit...giving the military far more than even they asked for (when they can’t even keep track of $500 million) despite having an economy that was finally humming along on its own without any government intervention.

 

Not to mention the increased costs of issuing more and more debt/bonds in the future, due to overheating that wasn’t called for except in Trump’s imagination.

 

Conservatives In Name Only.

 

Conservatives have never actually cared about the deficit beyond bad faith bs so this is perfectly in line with conservatism

[ptatc]

The Republicans have sure changed their minds on spending and debt in the last year. I guess the real deal was they were so scared it would be spent on things that were needed, they wouldn't be able to spend it on things that were not, like making the rich richer and more nukes.

Do you know what most of the military budget consists of? About 2/3 is on paying personnel andd operations which is mostly fuel. When they cut they budget dramatically they get accidents like we've seen with ships colliding because they arent alllowed to train or practice properly. A small percetage actually goes to procurement and "nukes"