What is Going Wrong With the Sox

[StrangeSox]

Well, for one 7-10 is not a horrendous start

 

Secondly, a 25-5 run is deserved and not an accident.. that's why it rarely happens.. they got hot at a good time

 

I feel like we are 3-14 around here

 

We are in the middle of a six-game losing streak and an early bullpen meltdown, plus more bad news about Peavy. Not exactly much to get excited for right now.

 

I didn't say that they didn't play their asses off in the 25-5 run, just that it's not something to count on, and even with that, they missed the playoffs. Again.

[flavum]

26-5, by the way.

[Wanne]

The blown saves really demoralized this team...

[Marty34]

Part of my frustration comes from the feeling that they are 'maxed out'. Core of team is toward the end of their primes and there is little payroll flexibility. Not too mention one of the five worst farm systems in the game. In short, it's hard to see the arrow as anything other than pointing down on this organization.

[T R U]

We are in the middle of a six-game losing streak and an early bullpen meltdown, plus more bad news about Peavy. Not exactly much to get excited for right now.

 

I didn't say that they didn't play their asses off in the 25-5 run, just that it's not something to count on, and even with that, they missed the playoffs. Again.

 

Yes, a bullpen meltdown that couldn't possibly get any worse than it is now.. what are we at, 6 blown saves? and they all pretty much came at once.. With as long as the season is you have to look at certain situations like that and realize that its not going to be the norm..

 

And I don't count on a 25-5 run, but I think this team is better than last years team.. And I don't think we need a run like that to be there at the end.. Were 7-10 people, do you think that KC and Cleveland are making playoff preparations right now?

[greg775]

nstead of having good discussions about the White Sox, let's just propose firing everybody instead because that doesn't make you look like the stereotypical fairweather fan when they're losing. I can guarantee you won't be singing this tune when they start winning.

 

It's hard to have a good discussion when a team is as streaky as the White Sox.

 

I mean we could talk about the bullpen situation, but uh, the bullpen hasn't had to save any games of late because we're always trailing.

 

Some of the guys were red hot at the plate and now dead. I guess we could discuss that.

 

The Sox make it tough to have good discussions because they are so damn flaky. Six in a row??

Why? Why not drop a couple, then win four in a row when things are going bad? No, we tank. It's six and counting.

[flavum]

Just to review last year:

 

24-33, then

38-13, then

17-26, out of it, then

9-2 to finish it out.

 

Awful season.

[greg775]

The 9-2 to finish it out definitely meant nothing.

[Jordan4life_2007]

this. (2 weeks into the season lol) well if ozzie should be fired then gardenhire should be fired too, they have a worse record than we do and i dont hear twins fans saying he should be gone because 2 weeks worth of baseball oh and francona too while were at it

 

I don't mind one Ozzie sucks thread. But this is like the third one. lol.

[T R U]

The 9-2 to finish it out definitely meant nothing.

 

You think so?

 

You're telling me that they still would have went "all in" this season had the team finished in the 70's for wins last year? Yeah right..

[Jordan4life_2007]

You think so?

 

You're telling me that they still would have went "all in" this season had the team finished in the 70's for wins last year? Yeah right..

 

But it seems like that's what it's going to take. Basically being 10+ games out until we're allowed to be concerned or overly concerned. And even then somebody would probably bring up the '91 Braves or the Rockies of the last 4 years.

[greg775]

You think so?

 

You're telling me that they still would have went "all in" this season had the team finished in the 70's for wins last year? Yeah right..

 

I mean those games meant nothing because the team was so far out of it.

Who cares if they finish strong or not?

The team just plain sucked in the second half, right after that great interleague stretch

[Jordan4life_2007]

I mean those games meant nothing because the team was so far out of it.

Who cares if they finish strong or not?

The team just plain sucked in the second half, right after that great interleague stretch

 

All finishing strong does when you're hopelessly out of it is hurt your draft position.

[T R U]

But it seems like that's what it's going to take. Basically being 10+ games out until we're allowed to be concerned or overly concerned. And even then somebody would probably bring up the '91 Braves or the Rockies of the last 4 years.

 

being 10+ games out IS a huge concern

 

being 7-10 on April 19th with Cleveland and Kansas City at the top of the division is absolutely no reason for some of the crap that's going on around here..

 

There is a difference between voicing logical concerns like the bullpen so far, or how our hitting has gone south and then starting fire everyone threads and the total meltdown that is going on..

 

No one is saying that you aren't allowed to criticize the team, but people are going to get annoyed with the ones already jumping off the ledge.. and im not saying you are one of them, but come on its very very early to declare a 7-10 start a nightmare..

[Jordan4life_2007]

being 10+ games out IS a huge concern

 

being 7-10 on April 19th with Cleveland and Kansas City at the top of the division is absolutely no reason for some of the crap that's going on around here..

 

There is a difference between voicing logical concerns like the bullpen so far, or how our hitting has gone south and then starting fire everyone threads and the total meltdown that is going on..

 

No one is saying that you aren't allowed to criticize the team, but people are going to get annoyed with the ones already jumping off the ledge.. and im not saying you are one of them, but come on its very very early to declare a 7-10 start a nightmare..

 

Well we're already 6 games out. Another week or so of this crap and we could very well be 10 games out. You say don't worry about it because it's Cleveland and KC? Well if a team at any point in the season can put you in that large a hole it's more than likely because they're legit. And it's not like the Sox have exactly shined against either team the last 3-4 years.

 

My bad. 5 games out.

Edited April 20, 2011 by Jordan4life

[Paint it Black]

Cleveland and Kansas City will lose 90 games this year. Why do people take 15 games so seriously? Seriously, those teams are bad and everybody thought that opening day, why should you think otherwise?

[Paint it Black]

I wish the Mods would just make one gigantic sticky thread that the sane people could avoid. Something like "_________ Should be fired for (insert pants on head stupid reason here)"

 

It would be so much better than seeing the same 9 awful threads.

[greg775]

Well we're already 6 games out. Another week or so of this crap and we could very well be 10 games out. You say don't worry about it because it's Cleveland and KC? Well if a team at any point in the season can put you in that large a hole it's more than likely because they're legit. And it's not like the Sox have exactly shined against either team the last 3-4 years.

 

My bad. 5 games out.

 

If we fall 10 games out, it will take to the All Star break at least to catch up.

You can bank on that.

Ten games out guarantees a god-awful first half of this season.

 

[witesoxfan]

that did take a pretty extraordinary run, and in the end they still missed the playoffs because of their horrendous start.

 

It still included the extraordinary run, so you can't look past that. And there were a lot of reasons they missed the playoffs...I'd argue that, instead of looking at a 55 game stretch where they were 9 games under .500, to instead look at an 18 game period where they were 8 games under .500 - 5-13 against the team that won the division has a stronger correlation to them missing the playoffs than does a rough start to the season.

 

A .513 winning percentage is pretty mediocre. .522 might sneak you in in a bad division.

 

It's about 5 years of frustrations, many of them repeated, that are causing all of the reactions right now, not one 7-10 start.

 

A .513 winning percentage over a 5 year period is pretty damn remarkable. I would guess, over the same time frame, there are 6 teams that are better. My guesses are the Phillies, Cardinals, Red Sox, Yankees, Twins, and Angels. It's hard to have any type of sustained success over that period of time unless you have a clear advantage - whether singular or some combination of advantages - in some aspect over every other team. The Phillies have had great scouting and development and have become big time spenders, the Cardinals have had the best player of the generation, the Angels have had money and some player development, the Twins have relied pretty much solely upon scouting and development until recent years, and the Yankees and Red Sox have pretty much been #1 and #2 in spending throughout that time frame (and considering all salary contributions during that time frame, they are certainly #1 and #2).

 

So you can't look at this from a single season point of view because you have to account for some variability and different levels of talent on the teams themselves.

 

And, if it WERE the 5 years of frustration, people would have been b****ing about wanting a new GM and manager in the offseason. I can think of about 1 person on here who was advocating for a new GM and maybe 3 who were advocating for a new manager. This is ENTIRELY because of one 7-10 start.

 

I have seen several, if not close to 100% of the board, who have said that if 2011 doesn't result in a playoff appearance (or at the very least, a great season with a ridiculous amount of bad luck, as in the Sox go 97-75 and lose the division and the Wild Card), then you clean house. I'm on board with that too because, at that point, something has to give.

[witesoxfan]

Well we're already 6 games out. Another week or so of this crap and we could very well be 10 games out. You say don't worry about it because it's Cleveland and KC? Well if a team at any point in the season can put you in that large a hole it's more than likely because they're legit. And it's not like the Sox have exactly shined against either team the last 3-4 years.

 

My bad. 5 games out.

 

Losing 4 games in the division in 1 week

would be a pretty remarkable feat.

 

(I'm not making fun of greg, I just thought it would make for a nice short poem)

[Pants Rowland]

Who's with me?!! Let's do it!!!!!!!

[Milkman delivers]

It's never going to be acceptable to say enough is enough. People will always claim that you are reacting only to something very recent. If all things remain the same into next year and they start off badly again, people will ask for a change due to the failings of the 2012 team, the current team, and the teams of the recent past. Ignoring all of that, certain posters will say it's an overreaction due to the most recent stretch of games.

[Milkman delivers]

It still included the extraordinary run, so you can't look past that. And there were a lot of reasons they missed the playoffs...I'd argue that, instead of looking at a 55 game stretch where they were 9 games under .500, to instead look at an 18 game period where they were 8 games under .500 - 5-13 against the team that won the division has a stronger correlation to them missing the playoffs than does a rough start to the season.

 

 

 

A .513 winning percentage over a 5 year period is pretty damn remarkable. I would guess, over the same time frame, there are 6 teams that are better. My guesses are the Phillies, Cardinals, Red Sox, Yankees, Twins, and Angels. It's hard to have any type of sustained success over that period of time unless you have a clear advantage - whether singular or some combination of advantages - in some aspect over every other team. The Phillies have had great scouting and development and have become big time spenders, the Cardinals have had the best player of the generation, the Angels have had money and some player development, the Twins have relied pretty much solely upon scouting and development until recent years, and the Yankees and Red Sox have pretty much been #1 and #2 in spending throughout that time frame (and considering all salary contributions during that time frame, they are certainly #1 and #2).

 

So you can't look at this from a single season point of view because you have to account for some variability and different levels of talent on the teams themselves.

 

And, if it WERE the 5 years of frustration, people would have been b****ing about wanting a new GM and manager in the offseason. I can think of about 1 person on here who was advocating for a new GM and maybe 3 who were advocating for a new manager. This is ENTIRELY because of one 7-10 start.

 

I have seen several, if not close to 100% of the board, who have said that if 2011 doesn't result in a playoff appearance (or at the very least, a great season with a ridiculous amount of bad luck, as in the Sox go 97-75 and lose the division and the Wild Card), then you clean house. I'm on board with that too because, at that point, something has to give.

 

Such as having a top two payroll in the division since 2001? Or having the top payroll in 5 of those years?

[Milkman delivers]

Cleveland and Kansas City will lose 90 games this year. Why do people take 15 games so seriously? Seriously, those teams are bad and everybody thought that opening day, why should you think otherwise?

 

With the way they've each started and not knowing exactly what they'd have to do each month to achieve that goal, I'd guess that it's pretty unlikely that both finish with 90 losses.

[witesoxfan]

Such as having a top two payroll in the division since 2001? Or having the top payroll in 5 of those years?

 

The Sox lack of minor league development is really the big detractor there. The Twins advantage in scouting and development really outweighs the Sox ability to spend there. Having top 10 picks for a decade really did help them there, considering their biggest asset was a #1 overall pick.