Knackattack Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 QUOTE (SoxPride56 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 06:43 PM) I really like that. It makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 20, 2011 -> 02:43 AM) I wouldn't say a heartbeat. But I'd definitely think about it. I'm not making excuses for Alex. But I feel he was mishandled prior to this year. On a team as bad as the Royals, he should've been given the chance to f*** up over and over and over again until he got it right. Sorta like Matt Wieters. Wait, I forgot he's no longer playing 3b. Maybe not a heartbeat, but I have huge doubts over Beckham's mental capacity to be a .300 hitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 08:41 PM) It would have taken something special to screw up their performance in the post season. There were 2 situations that may have saved the 2005 Sox. The ball going through Tony G's legs and Iguchi homering next gave the Sox a win, and El Duque which was Ozzie's call escaping the mess Marte created. If either or both of those don't happen, maybe they don't make it past Boston and Ozzie and KW are both probably doing something different right now, and the Sox probably have a $65 million payroll tops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 08:43 PM) I wouldn't say a heartbeat. But I'd definitely think about it. I'm not making excuses for Alex. But I feel he was mishandled prior to this year. On a team as bad as the Royals, he should've been given the chance to f*** up over and over and over again until he got it right. Sorta like Matt Wieters. So they should be able to f*** up over and over again and Beckham is a failure if he isn't a top 20 player as a 24 year old like you mentioned the other day? You have to realize players with little experience tend to struggle from time to time. Edited April 20, 2011 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 08:49 PM) So they should be able to f*** up over and over again and Beckham is a failure if he isn't a top 20 player as a 24 year old like you mentioned the other day? You have to realize players with little experience tend to struggle from time to time. I never said Beckham was a failure. But all things aren't equal. Yeah, I know the hype that was bestowed upon Alex. Same as Beckham. I'm looking more and skillset in this case. I, for one, never questioned Alex's skillset. Beckham? I kinda do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 08:57 PM) I never said Beckham was a failure. But all things aren't equal. Yeah, I know the hype that was bestowed upon Alex. Same as Beckham. I'm looking more and skillset in this case. I, for one, never questioned Alex's skillset. Beckham? I kinda do. Their numbers are identical and Alex has 2 more years of experience at the MLB level and is 2 years older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 08:41 PM) Yeah, but what team is that and what manager? read the thread, ozzie's a genius for 2005! he knows so much about baseball! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 09:02 PM) read the thread, ozzie's a genius for 2005! he knows so much about baseball! No, I'm asking you not the thread. What team and what manager makes those moves that wins games. You said it's out there, I just want to know who I should be thinking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 20, 2011 -> 02:04 AM) No, I'm asking you not the thread. What team and what manager makes those moves that wins games. You said it's out there, I just want to know who I should be thinking about. Scioscia does a great job handling his bullpen. I was so impressed by his proactivity in pulling his lefty reliever prior to facing Pierre on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 09:04 PM) No, I'm asking you not the thread. What team and what manager makes those moves that wins games. You said it's out there, I just want to know who I should be thinking about. Ah, I get it. If I don't spend the time to give you some specific examples of moves made by other managers that led to winning the game, it's impossible to criticize Ozzie for making the same bad decisions over and over and over and over again. Tell me more about giving up outs via the sac bunt and how awesome it is at producing runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 09:06 PM) Ah, I get it. If I don't spend the time to give you some specific examples of moves made by other managers that led to winning the game, it's impossible to criticize Ozzie for making the same bad decisions over and over and over and over again. Tell me more about giving up outs via the sac bunt and how awesome it is at producing runs. How hard is it to give a name of a manager? I'm asking you an honest question since you said there are brilliant managers who make strategic moves that win games. Fathom gave one two seconds ago. I don't think it's that hard of a concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 09:01 PM) Their numbers are identical and Alex has 2 more years of experience at the MLB level and is 2 years older. I agree. Now if I ask this question pre-2010 you would've come with a MUCH, MUCH stronger rebuttal. That's kinda my point. And I'm not just jumping on Alex's bandwagon because he's ripping the league to shreds so far in 2011. I'm sure most remember my "Free Alex Gordon" sig from last year. I've always been a big fan. Believe me. I want Beckham to succeed more than anybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 09:05 PM) Scioscia does a great job handling his bullpen. I was so impressed by his proactivity in pulling his lefty reliever prior to facing Pierre on Sunday. Agreed. He's one guy you would always want over what you currently have in the managers chair, but he's going nowhere unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Mileage Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 09:01 PM) Their numbers are identical and Alex has 2 more years of experience at the MLB level and is 2 years older. Alex has spent the majority of those 2 extra years in the minors and/or on the DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knackattack Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 07:08 PM) Agreed. He's one guy you would always want over what you currently have in the managers chair, but he's going nowhere unfortunately. I like what Maddon does with his team. I see Tampa with a lot of variants in their line-up that usually work. He really knows how to use his bench and where to position the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 09:07 PM) How hard is it to give a name of a manager? I'm asking you an honest question since you said there are brilliant managers who make strategic moves that win games. Fathom gave one two seconds ago. I don't think it's that hard of a concept. That's not really what I said. I started with specifically saying that the White Sox didn't win in 2005 because of brilliant management, and when you asked a question, I said maybe a game here or there is won because of that. I was intentionally wishy-washy because I think a manager has more of an ability to lose the game with a dumb decision than to win it. You can make all of the 'correct' decisions, not give up bad outs with your #2 hitter, not bring in a reliever who threw 2 innings the night before, not advocate a rotating DH, not playing a bunch of garbage bench players way too much and still have the players. On the other hand, if you give up outs left and right, you're hurting the players' abilities to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 09:05 PM) Scioscia does a great job handling his bullpen. I was so impressed by his proactivity in pulling his lefty reliever prior to facing Pierre on Sunday. Notice he didn't waste anytime going to Walden when it was clear (been clear for years) that Rodney sucks. We still don't know who the hell are closer is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knackattack Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 07:17 PM) Notice he didn't waste anytime going to Walden when it was clear (been clear for years) that Rodney sucks. We still don't know who the hell are closer is. I really think Santos will take the job when he finally gets a chance to do it -__- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 08:39 PM) What team wins because of brilliant managerial moves and strategy? Teams may not win because of them, but they certainly can lose games because of poor managerial decisions. Everything adds up in the end. You miss the playoffs by a couple games, I can show you a few decisions Guillen made that ended up costing us games that most managers would consider stupid. It's really no different than having a bad DH or closer. There is never a single cause to missing the playoffs, but a manager can definitely be one of the reasons. Otherwise, any Joe Schmo could have the job. I've wanted Ozzie gone for a couple of years now. I've never been a supporter of his philosophies, but I can longer tell what he does well. He's a terrible in-game manager. He refuses to use any statistics to support his decisions. Therefore, he has no idea that some players have reverse splits, which puts certain players in situations to fail. He's obsessed with small ball, regardless if it suits the team, which is costing us outs left and right. He overuses his worst bullpen arms. I still have nightmares about Randy Williams coming in every game last year. Now Ohman is his go-to-guy. He uses his bench poorly. Certain guys play too much and his Sunday lineups are an absolute joke. What once was considered a strength, his ability to motivate his players, doesn't appear to be there anymore. How else do you explain a team that constantly plays like a bunch of cowards as soon as they lose a few games in a row? Most importantly, his teams have been underachieving on a regular basis since 2005. If he's not at least partly responsible for that, how in god's name do you evaluate a manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 07:08 PM) Agreed. He's one guy you would always want over what you currently have in the managers chair, but he's going nowhere unfortunately. He's good but he gets too much credit. That division was WEAK for years and Moreno was the only one spending money on free agents. Plus I give as much credit to Dusty Baker for the '02 WS as I do Mike. Or should I say spending "smart" money on free agents. Edited April 20, 2011 by The Ginger Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I understand the angst over Ozzie...he was bunting in the 2 or 3rd inning the first week of the season...but bottom line...this offense has not showed up at all. 4 goddamn hit?!? I said this 2 years ago...this organization needs to hire a sports psychologist IMO. Bunch of headcases... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 QUOTE (SouthSidePride05 @ Apr 20, 2011 -> 02:41 AM) I expected Dunn to strike out a few times, but not to look this bad. I was hoping he'd come through tonight, so we could hear Hawk's inevitable and annoying as hell, "It's all good!". Adam Dunn has been so bad it's laughable. Why can't we ever pick up a guy and have him EXCEL from Day One? Remember Rios and how bad he was at first? My god, Dunn could have picked us up tonight. Instead, predictable whiff in the ninth against their closer, who unlike ours, can close. Are we going to break out of this slump or be out of it this year by mid May? p.s. The way this team is going, the next time we actually lead in a game, our closer will blow it again. This is why you can't blow 3 run leads in the ninth, Mr. Thornton and Pierre. The team goes in the s***TER immediately afterward. f*** we suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 10:05 PM) Adam Dunn has been so bad it's laughable. Why can't we ever pick up a guy and have him EXCEL from Day One? Remember Rios and how bad he was at first? My god, Dunn could have picked us up tonight. Instead, predictable whiff in the ninth against their closer, who unlike ours, can close. Are we going to break out of this slump or be out of it this year by mid May? p.s. The way this team is going, the next time we actually lead in a game, our closer will blow it again. This is why you can't blow 3 run leads in the ninth, Mr. Thornton and Pierre. The team goes in the s***TER immediately afterward. f*** we suck. Well aside that Tampa didn't use a closer tonight as James Shields finished the game, Dunn also just had an appendectomy recently and missed some time which DOES matter.. Its hard to have take peoples posts legit when they make statements that lead you to believe they didn't even watch/follow the game (I.E. Tampa using a closer tonight) Ide be absolutely shocked if Dunn didn't have 35-40 homers and 90-100 RBI's by the end of the year.. this place is going to hell over a 7-10 start, my god Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I'd still switch up the lineup tho...get Beckham out of the 2-hole. Pierre Lexi CQ Walnuts Dunn Rios AJ Beckham Teahen/Morel/Omar whatev... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 QUOTE (T R U @ Apr 20, 2011 -> 04:10 AM) Well aside that Tampa didn't use a closer tonight as James Shields finished the game, Dunn also just had an appendectomy recently and missed some time which DOES matter.. Its hard to have take peoples posts legit when they make statements that lead you to believe they didn't even watch/follow the game (I.E. Tampa using a closer tonight) Ide be absolutely shocked if Dunn didn't have 35-40 homers and 90-100 RBI's by the end of the year.. this place is going to hell over a 7-10 start, my god I watched it on mlb with the sound down. I just assumed they brought in a closer since nobody ever pitches a complete game, at least on our Sox. My bad. I realize Dunn had the appendectomy. s***, he's been back a while now. As far as freaking out over 7-10, the team has lost 6 games in a row. Lose a few more and it's time to ask ELIAS the last time an AL champ survived a losing streak of 7, 8, 9 games. Good teams don't drop that many in a row. I think this place should go to hell over a 7-10 start. It's a pretty lousy start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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