Harry Chappas Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 9, 2011 -> 09:50 AM) Anthopoulos served as an advanced scout for the Greek National Baseball Team for the 2004 Summer Olympics. The Greek team finished in 7th place. Didn't Mike Piazza play on that team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Aug 9, 2011 -> 12:30 PM) Didn't Mike Piazza play on that team? I think he was on Italy. Nick Markakis was on the Greek team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Just lock this, so I'm not tempted to come back and point out how bad that trade was. 14-9, 3.61 28 starts, 187 innings. Oh, and he can rake too. He'll be starting Game 2 in Philadelphia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (flavum @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 10:09 AM) He'll be starting and losing Game 2 in Philadelphia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 KW just better pray that Stewart can be a #4 or 5 starter, as Hudson continues to look like he's going to be a #1 or 2 for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Maybe, but at least he'll be there. And the D-backs will have him cheap for the next 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Will it be four years or five (with Hudson)? Did he pitch enough in 2010 to push his service time forward? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 12:35 PM) Will it be four years or five (with Hudson)? Did he pitch enough in 2010 to push his service time forward? He didn't come up until well after the Super 2 deadline, so it ought to be 5 more years after this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 10:29 AM) KW just better pray that Stewart can be a #4 or 5 starter, as Hudson continues to look like he's going to be a #1 or 2 for a long time. He's not proven he's a #1 - maybe a #2, but I think he needs to show more. He's not even the best pitcher on his own team right now. I don't dispute he has performed quite well since virtually the day we traded him, but let's not make him into an ace quite yet. He's pitching to a 3.6 ERA in the year of the pitcher in the National League in a division in which there are zero competent offenses. Edited August 30, 2011 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 12:42 PM) He's not proven he's a #1 - maybe a #2, but I think he needs to show more. He's not even the best pitcher on his own team right now. I don't dispute he has performed quite well since virtually the day we traded him, but let's not make him into an ace quite yet. He's pitching to a 3.6 ERA in the year of the pitcher in the National League in a division in which there are zero competent offenses. The Dodgers, Giants and Padres are not good offenses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 02:11 PM) The Dodgers, Giants and Padres are not good offenses? Some of the worst actually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Humber would beat Hudson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 02:37 PM) AA has done some amazing things, many of his moves are more for the longer term (I know, you're an all in guy). That said, if after another 3 years and he hasn't progressed in the standings then of course he didn't keep up his track record. That's the key to all of this. He was lucky to find a taker for Wells, but his return for Halladay isn't looking so hot right now, and he was (and still probably is) the best and most valuable pitcher in baseball. Kyle Drabek, though still young, has been absolutely demolished at both the MLB and AAA level this year and one has to wonder if he's not injured. Michael Taylor - who's been OK - was actually traded immediately for Brett Wallace. Wallace was then traded for Michael Gose, who has, again, been OK at the AA level. Travis d'Arnaud has played well this year, but that's one player. He was lucky to find a taker for Wells too. I like Anthropolous and what he's done with that organization as much as the next guy, but they are still quite a ways away from getting out of 4th place. People were in love with Jack Zduriencik too and then the M's fell flat on their face and his plan failed, and suddenly he is thought of as a middle of the pack GM again. There are many ways to go about building a team - the Astros brought in as many players as they could for Pence and Bourn to try and replenish the depth they'd lost over the years as well as getting as many serviceable MLB players as they could. The Jays have set themselves up with high ceiling players, but if 2-3 of those players completely flop, especially some of the bigger names (this year alone, Snider and Lind could have done wonders for them, but their presence has been non-existent), it's all for not. What I see is high variability with that team. There will be a year, probably within the next 4, that they win anywhere between 92-102 games. And then there will be a couple years that they only win 75-83. That's the nature of young players and how they pan out. Some players blossom and continue to be stars. Some come out like a bang, struggle for a year or two, and then find their groove again. Others succeed at all times they are not injured - which is often. Some succeed, fail, and then can't get it back. There is a lot which is yet to be accounted for. Before anyone declares AA as one of the best in the game, I would suggest that they take a step back and wait for everything to pan out. In the meantime, I'm going to suggest that, if using wins/resources, Andrew Friedman is the best GM in the game. I don't think there's much of an argument. Edited August 31, 2011 by witesoxfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 09:29 AM) KW just better pray that Stewart can be a #4 or 5 starter, as Hudson continues to look like he's going to be a #1 or 2 for a long time. He's probably more like a quality #3. A ? trade at the time that just looks bad. You could have retained a young arm where it looks like this organization might new one since there may be no Danks. I think it was you that pointed out getting Jackson because Kenny didn't want to trust an unproven pitcher in a race and now they have to trust Stewart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I think you could make an equally compelling argument for Terry Ryan of the Twins being the best overall GM in the game, if you took his payroll limitations, the Pohlads and a smaller-revenue producing stadium into account. Heck, the Twins were almost vanquished from baseball and they went on to win 6 out of 9 division titles and they were a coin flip away from 7/9. Almost every single player that contributed to the 2010 Twins' team was put in place by Ryan, with the exception of Delmon Young's monster year. In the end, the DY trade turned out to be something of a bust for them. Luckily, Bill Smith has turned out to be a bottom third GM so far in his tenure. Of course, in Friedman's defense, the Rays have a much higher bar to get across with the Yankees and Red Sox, there's no doubt about that. But I would definitely take Ryan and Friedman over Beane. Seems Beane needs to see what he could do with a higher-revenue team in order to really prove how good a GM he could actually be. Perhaps, like KW, he "peaked" in the Hudson/Zito/Mulder/Tejada/Chavez days and his best years are firmly behind him in the rearview mirror. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 The thing to remember though...Terry Ryan had exactly 2 ridiculous benefits. He got the #1 pick in the right year to get a player who came up and hit while he was still GM (and then departed before that player's knees gave out), and then he also happened to hit absolute gold on a rule 5 draft pick. He also was the beneficiary of some really stupid trading by the Giants too. If we wanted to there's room to criticize him as well. Letting David Ortiz walk right before he turned into a (possibly chemically enhanced) hitting machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Hudson up to 15 wins and beat the division rival. DBs got the better half of that deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 08:35 AM) The thing to remember though...Terry Ryan had exactly 2 ridiculous benefits. He got the #1 pick in the right year to get a player who came up and hit while he was still GM (and then departed before that player's knees gave out), and then he also happened to hit absolute gold on a rule 5 draft pick. He also was the beneficiary of some really stupid trading by the Giants too. If we wanted to there's room to criticize him as well. Letting David Ortiz walk right before he turned into a (possibly chemically enhanced) hitting machine. The majority of GMs would have taken Pryor over Mauer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 05:58 PM) The majority of GMs would have taken Pryor over Mauer. So would Ryan if Priors salary demands didn't scare him off as a small market GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 06:00 PM) So would Ryan if Priors salary demands didn't scare him off as a small market GM. Sometimes being cheap pays off, it also helped Mauer was the local boy, but he did make the correct call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 06:52 AM) That's the key to all of this. He was lucky to find a taker for Wells, but his return for Halladay isn't looking so hot right now, and he was (and still probably is) the best and most valuable pitcher in baseball. Kyle Drabek, though still young, has been absolutely demolished at both the MLB and AAA level this year and one has to wonder if he's not injured. Michael Taylor - who's been OK - was actually traded immediately for Brett Wallace. Wallace was then traded for Michael Gose, who has, again, been OK at the AA level. Travis d'Arnaud has played well this year, but that's one player. He was lucky to find a taker for Wells too. I like Anthropolous and what he's done with that organization as much as the next guy, but they are still quite a ways away from getting out of 4th place. People were in love with Jack Zduriencik too and then the M's fell flat on their face and his plan failed, and suddenly he is thought of as a middle of the pack GM again. There are many ways to go about building a team - the Astros brought in as many players as they could for Pence and Bourn to try and replenish the depth they'd lost over the years as well as getting as many serviceable MLB players as they could. The Jays have set themselves up with high ceiling players, but if 2-3 of those players completely flop, especially some of the bigger names (this year alone, Snider and Lind could have done wonders for them, but their presence has been non-existent), it's all for not. What I see is high variability with that team. There will be a year, probably within the next 4, that they win anywhere between 92-102 games. And then there will be a couple years that they only win 75-83. That's the nature of young players and how they pan out. Some players blossom and continue to be stars. Some come out like a bang, struggle for a year or two, and then find their groove again. Others succeed at all times they are not injured - which is often. Some succeed, fail, and then can't get it back. There is a lot which is yet to be accounted for. Before anyone declares AA as one of the best in the game, I would suggest that they take a step back and wait for everything to pan out. In the meantime, I'm going to suggest that, if using wins/resources, Andrew Friedman is the best GM in the game. I don't think there's much of an argument. AA looking at potential $100+ million pitcher Yu Darvish. http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_leagu...urn=mlb-wp18464 You would have to think the Dice-K and Aroldis Chapman experiments would be cooling off most GM's on these huge international signings... Edited September 5, 2011 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 If there is something I am not going to spend $100 million on as a young team, it's pitching. TINSTAAPP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Hudson with a CG win. *cue the it doesn't count because it came against the Padres comments* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 11:42 PM) it doesn't count because it came against the Padres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 10, 2011 -> 05:42 AM) Hudson with a CG win. *cue the it doesn't count because it came against the Padres comments* As of a few weeks ago, I do know that Padres had a top 3 offense in the NL since the ASB. However, that was before they started losing 13 of their next 15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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