MLB Attendance problem? (KC, CLE, Cubs, NY teams)

[LittleHurt05]

Yahoo's Jeff Passan takes another look at the attendance problem

[southsider2k5]

Interesting spin there...

 

2. And Lord could the Chicago Cubs use that right now. Of the pictures sent to Rovell, the ones from Wrigley Field are perhaps the most surprising. For nearly a decade now, the Cubs have turned into an attendance juggernaut, regularly booking 3 million-plus fans.

 

This year, even with expected summer growth and tourists making the annual jaunt to Lakeview, they’ll be lucky to crack 2.9 million. Last season, ticket sales actually declined from this late April through the rest of the season, and if that trend continues, it will get ugly. Already the Cubs are down 4,300 per game year over year. If the Cubs can recover and lose only 100,000 tickets, that’s still nearly $5 million in ticket revenue, plus all the ancillaries. At a 300,000-plus-drop, it’s upwards of $25 million – or Albert Pujols’(notes) salary for next season.

[Chisoxfn]

Interesting spin there...

This might be the accountant in me, but how is 100K equivalent to 5M but 300K equivalent to 25M in payroll.

 

Not really following that fact pattern there.

[witesoxfan]

This might be the accountant in me, but how is 100K equivalent to 5M but 300K equivalent to 25M in payroll.

 

Not really following that fact pattern there.

 

I think he's referencing the "plus" part of that, though perhaps he's also viewing that as some of the higher priced tickets not being sold as well. Im not sure what his logic is there.

 

Either way, if they lose $15 million that they were counting on putting towards a Pujols package, they are going to be hurt quite severely by that. It may not discourage them entirely because they'll draw more people as it is, but they are still feeling the ramifications of giving a stupid nine figure contract to a player, I don't know why they'd go back to that well again. I get that Pujols is the best player of our generation, but it's still a scary proposition giving him any sort of ridiculously long-term deal.

[caulfield12]

I saw a figure quoted that the White Sox would have to average 33,000 per game (maybe it was SouthSideSox.com?) in order to "break even" with the current payroll?

 

Where did that come from? Williams? JR? Does anyone actually believe it?

[southsider2k5]

I think he's referencing the "plus" part of that, though perhaps he's also viewing that as some of the higher priced tickets not being sold as well. Im not sure what his logic is there.

 

Either way, if they lose $15 million that they were counting on putting towards a Pujols package, they are going to be hurt quite severely by that. It may not discourage them entirely because they'll draw more people as it is, but they are still feeling the ramifications of giving a stupid nine figure contract to a player, I don't know why they'd go back to that well again. I get that Pujols is the best player of our generation, but it's still a scary proposition giving him any sort of ridiculously long-term deal.

 

For anything past say 5 or 6 years, it is just stupid. I don't care who it is.

[LittleHurt05]

I saw a figure quoted that the White Sox would have to average 33,000 per game (maybe it was SouthSideSox.com?) in order to "break even" with the current payroll?

 

Where did that come from? Williams? JR? Does anyone actually believe it?

 

The first week of the year I heard that they needed 2.7 million fans to break even. I thought that number came from Reinsdorf, but I'm not positive.

[bmags]

that's bogus. Maybe in straight ticket revenue.

[kitekrazy]

I am almost certain that there would be PLENTY of posters on this site who would be very happy if this team was losing 95 games a season as long as they had some hott spects to drool over.. at least that how it seems

 

Do they really gain anything with top prospects that will be exposed to a poor farm system?

 

[caulfield12]

Great, another Indians' top pitching prospect is on the way!!!!

 

7. The American League’s best team, the Cleveland Indians, another strong starting pitcher. Which happened when Alex White joined them after 175 minor league innings, outdueled Rick Porcello(notes) in his first start and handed Jered Weaver(notes) his second loss the next time out.

 

White, the Indians’ No. 1 pick in 2009, is the pitcher’s equivalent to a metal band: hard, harder and hardest. Hard is his slider, an 85-mph power breaker. Harder is his splitter, an 87-mph beast he has yet to use much in his first two starts. Hardest is a 93-mph fastball he threw three-quarters of the time to solid results.

 

If White continues to pitch well, the Indians will have more starters than rotation spots. Mitch Talbot(notes) and Carlos Carrasco(notes) both pitched well before hitting the disabled list, and Fausto Carmona(notes), Justin Masterson(notes) and Josh Tomlin(notes) aren’t going anywhere for the time being. It’s a good problem to have, made all the better by their 2010 No. 1, Drew Pomeranz, sporting a 1.27 ERA with 42 strikeouts in 28 1/3 innings at Class-A Kinston. He'll be at Double-A soon, the level at which... …

 

Jeff Passan

yahoo.com/sports

Edited May 9, 2011 by caulfield12

[LittleHurt05]

Great, another Indians' top pitching prospect is on the way!!!!

 

I'm sure all 10,000 people at Progressive Field will be excited!

[greg775]

I don't believe there is much (if any) concern about attendance here in KC. The organization pretty much waived the white flag on the '11 season with all of the talk about 2012 and our farm system. Moving Greinke and DeJesus surely didn't help either.

 

Last year, there was at least some expectation that they'd be able to contend (I know right), and despite our "hot" 12-7 start, people are still waiting for the team to come back down to it's expectations this year and/or waiting until June for the prospect(s) to get here. It also seems like we've played a lot of day games already this year...

 

If KC keeps winning, the place will be 30,000 plus all June and July and the first 2 weeks of August. Problem is they've already had a ton of home games. KC doesn't draw squat in April and May, at least not the last 15 years when people have been resigned to s*** teams.

KC will be fine.

[Balta1701]

If KC keeps winning, the place will be 30,000 plus all June and July and the first 2 weeks of August. Problem is they've already had a ton of home games. KC doesn't draw squat in April and May, at least not the last 15 years when people have been resigned to s*** teams.

KC will be fine.

Really, what basis do you figure that out? KC hasn't averaged more than 22k a game since the late 80's. They've had plenty of June/July/August games with 10-12,000 fans showing up the last few years.

 

How do you know this with no evidence?

[caulfield12]

Really, what basis do you figure that out? KC hasn't averaged more than 22k a game since the late 80's. They've had plenty of June/July/August games with 10-12,000 fans showing up the last few years.

 

How do you know this with no evidence?

 

 

Because we've both lived there or nearby.

 

1994 24,356 per game

1995 17,000+ (post-strike)

2003 23,000+

 

The Royals fans have been waiting 15 years for a consistent winner. Like Chicago, they tend to support winning or at least above average teams. Similar stadiums, especially the upper decks, although Kauffman is much more beautiful because of the fountains and outfield architecture. Similarly effected by the strike, except they NEVER got their fans back after that event because they failed to produce any decent teams from that point onward.

 

The fans there are already making plans to come out to see Hosmer, local bars are being asked for the first time in 8 years to turn on the Royals' games, they just beat the Yankees in NYC for the first time in 12 years, there's a buzz around the team/city/organization that last existed in 2009 when Greinke would pitch, in 2003 and the great offensive teams with Damon/Dye/Beltran/Randa/Sweeney around a decade ago.

 

And they still have Moustakas to promote as well, when he replaces Betemit later in the year.

 

Tickets are still much affordable and reasonable compared to Chicago, fwiw. It's bit expensive, but it's still a good family entertainment option, and KC's the kind of place that "oozes family." It's not exciting like Chicago, but the fans have been waiting for someone to identify with. They never really loved Greinke, they appreciated his greatness and ability, but it was never a close relationship or idolation.

 

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

Remember though, the population of the entire K.C. Metro area is 2.1 million. The population of the City of Chicago, not counting the suburbs, is 2.6 million, with 4x that in the metropolitan area. The population of the K.C. Area is similar to Indianapolis.

 

I don't know where the upper limit is for what that city can turn out and no one here does either.

[caulfield12]

The city population of KC isn't the sole indicator here.

 

They're not sharing the city with another franchise and they're a "regional" team (like the Cardinals) that historically drew very well from Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska (the AAA team was always in Omaha), Arkansas, Colorado, etc.

 

The KC population has been pretty stable over the last 10-20 years. I haven't looked it up, but I'd guess the attendance for the Royals from 1976/77-1994 was very similar, even though St. Louis also has a much larger population base.

 

 

[Balta1701]

The city population of KC isn't the sole indicator here.

 

They're not sharing the city with another franchise and they're a "regional" team (like the Cardinals) that historically drew very well from Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska (the AAA team was always in Omaha), Arkansas, Colorado, etc.

 

The KC population has been pretty stable over the last 10-20 years. I haven't looked it up, but I'd guess the attendance for the Royals from 1976/77-1994 was very similar, even though St. Louis also has a much larger population base.

But compared to capacity, They don't fill up that much. Pre- strike they grew slowly to 2.4 mil and have hung around 1.6 since the strike

[High Mileage]

If KC keeps winning, the place will be 30,000 plus all June and July and the first 2 weeks of August. Problem is they've already had a ton of home games. KC doesn't draw squat in April and May, at least not the last 15 years when people have been resigned to s*** teams.

KC will be fine.

I agree. June 1 should bring more of our highly touted prospects to KC as well. If the team stays competitive, people will start showing up, much like they did during the Summer of '03. Difference being that nobody on the planet thought that team would win the next day, it was a complete mirage and everybody knew it.

 

Really, what basis do you figure that out? KC hasn't averaged more than 22k a game since the late 80's. They've had plenty of June/July/August games with 10-12,000 fans showing up the last few years.

 

How do you know this with no evidence?

People in this area will stay home if the teams are losing.

Because we've both lived there or nearby.

 

1994 24,356 per game

1995 17,000+ (post-strike)

2003 23,000+

 

The Royals fans have been waiting 15 years for a consistent winner. Like Chicago, they tend to support winning or at least above average teams. Similar stadiums, especially the upper decks, although Kauffman is much more beautiful because of the fountains and outfield architecture. Similarly effected by the strike, except they NEVER got their fans back after that event because they failed to produce any decent teams from that point onward.

 

The fans there are already making plans to come out to see Hosmer, local bars are being asked for the first time in 8 years to turn on the Royals' games, they just beat the Yankees in NYC for the first time in 12 years, there's a buzz around the team/city/organization that last existed in 2009 when Greinke would pitch, in 2003 and the great offensive teams with Damon/Dye/Beltran/Randa/Sweeney around a decade ago.

 

And they still have Moustakas to promote as well, when he replaces Betemit later in the year.

 

Tickets are still much affordable and reasonable compared to Chicago, fwiw. It's bit expensive, but it's still a good family entertainment option, and KC's the kind of place that "oozes family." It's not exciting like Chicago, but the fans have been waiting for someone to identify with. They never really loved Greinke, they appreciated his greatness and ability, but it was never a close relationship or idolation.

Good stuff, and correct.

The city population of KC isn't the sole indicator here.

 

They're not sharing the city with another franchise and they're a "regional" team (like the Cardinals) that historically drew very well from Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska (the AAA team was always in Omaha), Arkansas, Colorado, etc.

 

The KC population has been pretty stable over the last 10-20 years. I haven't looked it up, but I'd guess the attendance for the Royals from 1976/77-1994 was very similar, even though St. Louis also has a much larger population base.

+1

But compared to capacity, They don't fill up that much. Pre- strike they grew slowly to 2.4 mil and have hung around 1.6 since the strike

The Royals' owner and founder died one year, the strike hit the next. The AL Central was in its' first year, and was also the best division in baseball. When the strike stopped the '94 season August 12th, the Royals were in third place, and they were 64-51. In an effort to make the team more appealing for new ownership, those in charge decided to cut payroll. The team has been pretty terrible since, that's why people don't go...

[MiddleCoastBias]

Instead of creating a new thread I figured I would bump this since it had a lot on KC. New article on Grandstand about the Royals' prospects, good read.

 

Grantland.com

 

A few quotes:

 

In a matter of months, the conventional wisdom about the Royals progressed from "nice little farm system" to "most-improved farm system in baseball" to "best farm system in baseball" to "OMG THIS IS THE BEST FARM SYSTEM EVUH."

 

As a Royals fan, I appreciate the attention they're getting. But when you root for a perennial loser, what gets you through the day is the knowledge that when your team finally does win, the taste of victory will be even sweeter because no one will have seen it coming. That's the downside of having The Best Farm System Ever — everyone sees the Royals coming, and it's not even clear if they're a mirage yet. It's hard to shock the world when the MLB brain trust has pretty much conceded the AL Central to the team in 2013.