hawkubes Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Let's fire Ozzie and let's fire KW. I'm so sick and tired of this talk. Ozzie's a great manager (yes, he makes mistakes, who doesn't) the players want to play for him. Kenny Williams has made some great moves, i'm so tired of everybody talkin smack about KW's moves. He's doing everything he can to make the white sox a winner, and that's what they're gonna do. Let's go Sox :gosoxretro: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Ummmm, okay. I sure hope you're right and they come back from Detroit and New York still within 5-6 games of first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Does the sickness has anything to do with eye sight? You completely missed the optimism thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxrwhite Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 QUOTE (hawkubes @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 03:28 AM) Let's fire Ozzie and let's fire KW. I'm so sick and tired of this talk. Ozzie's a great manager (yes, he makes mistakes, who doesn't) the players want to play for him. Kenny Williams has made some great moves, i'm so tired of everybody talkin smack about KW's moves. He's doing everything he can to make the white sox a winner, and that's what they're gonna do. Let's go Sox :gosoxretro: Sox fan with a cub fan mentality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 (edited) This KW/Ozzie duo has lived off of 2005. Prior to that KW, never once made the playoffs in four years. And since then, he has only made the playoffs one year. So that's two playoff appearances in 10 years when on most years, two of the other five teams in the division are 70-win clubs. The Sox have had the highest payroll numerous years and been in the top two probably every year in the division. I have been on the fire KW/Ozzie bandwagon since 2007 and still am there. Screw loyalty, baseball is a business and KW/Ozzie are not doing their jobs. Edited April 23, 2011 by maggsmaggs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 09:43 AM) This KW/Ozzie duo has lived off of 2005. Prior to that KW, never once made the playoffs in four years. And since then, he has only made the playoffs one year. So that's two playoff appearances in 10 years when on most years, two of the other five teams in the division are 70-win clubs. The Sox have had the highest payroll numerous years and been in the top two probably every year in the division. I have been on the fire KW/Ozzie bandwagon since 2007 and still am there. Screw loyalty, baseball is a business and KW/Ozzie are not doing their jobs. Yes, the Sox have had the highest or second highest payroll each year since KW took over. And yes, I'm fairly certain that the division has been home to 2 of the worst 3 teams in the AL in every year, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 (edited) Even with Baltimore and Seattle the last half decade? Oakland really hasn't been good for at least five years, either. The odds would be about the same of winning the AL West, considering only four teams....albeit the Rangers and Angels look super tough now. Yes, the Sox have had the highest or second highest payroll each year since KW took over. And yes, I'm fairly certain that the division has been home to 2 of the worst 3 teams in the AL in every year, too. That's only true for 2009. Last year it was Seattle, Balt and then KC. In 2008, Seattle, Baltimore then Detroit (KC and Oak one game better), 2007 Tampa, Baltimore and KC, and 2006, TB, KC and Baltimore. Edited April 23, 2011 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 09:43 AM) This KW/Ozzie duo has lived off of 2005. Prior to that KW, never once made the playoffs in four years. And since then, he has only made the playoffs one year. So that's two playoff appearances in 10 years when on most years, two of the other five teams in the division are 70-win clubs. The Sox have had the highest payroll numerous years and been in the top two probably every year in the division. I have been on the fire KW/Ozzie bandwagon since 2007 and still am there. Screw loyalty, baseball is a business and KW/Ozzie are not doing their jobs. The flip side is that they have at least been in it pretty much every year of the Ozzie/KW team, except for 2007. Plus flags fly forever. When you prove that you can win, you get well deserved leeway. People love to forget how the won 90 games in 2006 after having a pitching staff throw a whole extra month which I think is pretty impressive. Plus KW has made some great trades to get this team where it is (McCarthy for Danks comes to mind right away) There are issues I have (stop playing small ball Ozzie; Draft better KW) but these kinds of "FIRE EVERYONE POSTS IT'S 17 GAMES!!!!!" have me questioning if people have been through an actual baseball season before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 10:14 AM) The flip side is that they have at least been in it pretty much every year of the Ozzie/KW team, except for 2007. Plus flags fly forever. When you prove that you can win, you get well deserved leeway. People love to forget how the won 90 games in 2006 after having a pitching staff throw a whole extra month which I think is pretty impressive. Plus KW has made some great trades to get this team where it is (McCarthy for Danks comes to mind right away) There are issues I have (stop playing small ball Ozzie; Draft better KW) but these kinds of "FIRE EVERYONE POSTS IT'S 17 GAMES!!!!!" have me questioning if people have been through an actual baseball season before. And as he said, which people seem to ignore each time, is that this isn't a reaction to the most recent play of the team. He and I (and quite a lot of people) have wanted a change for a long time. The recent play is just additional reasoning to want it. We can say this all year (we have done so for the last few seasons) and when it happens again next year, somebody like you will AGAIN say, "you're just overreacting to a small sample size!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 (edited) I don't care if we are 5 or 6 games out of 1st place this early in the season. What matters is where we are at at the EMD of the season. This is a good ballclub and similar to some past winning seasons they can turn it around and be a winner. It is hard to accept losing, but I know we will suffer through rough spots during a season. We can turn it around and will. Go Sox! Sis boom bah rah rah, etc, etc. Lighten up folks. Edited April 23, 2011 by elrockinMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 10:14 AM) The flip side is that they have at least been in it pretty much every year of the Ozzie/KW team, except for 2007. Plus flags fly forever. When you prove that you can win, you get well deserved leeway. People love to forget how the won 90 games in 2006 after having a pitching staff throw a whole extra month which I think is pretty impressive. Plus KW has made some great trades to get this team where it is (McCarthy for Danks comes to mind right away) There are issues I have (stop playing small ball Ozzie; Draft better KW) but these kinds of "FIRE EVERYONE POSTS IT'S 17 GAMES!!!!!" have me questioning if people have been through an actual baseball season before. The Sox are only in it every year because they have the most resources in the division (their payroll). It really has nothing to do with KW; it's actually the opposite. KW is the reason we have this ceiling where we are in it almost every year, but not winning it. For all the good trades KW has made, he and this organization has drafted horrendously and developed players horrifically. The Sox will never be a consistent winner with KW because the Sox don't draft and develop. Unless you can spend like the Yankees and Red Sox, you need to draft and develop well. And actually the Sawks and Yankees do draft and develop well. It's also boggles my mind that the Sox are willing to spend so much on payroll yet they consistently neglect spending on foreign free agents and the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 10:41 AM) The Sox are only in it every year because they have the most resources in the division (their payroll). It really has nothing to do with KW; it's actually the opposite. KW is the reason we have this ceiling where we are in it almost every year, but not winning it. For all the good trades KW has made, he and this organization has drafted horrendously and developed players horrifically. The Sox will never be a consistent winner with KW because the Sox don't draft and develop. Unless you can spend like the Yankees and Red Sox, you need to draft and develop well. And actually the Sawks and Yankees do draft and develop well. It's also boggles my mind that the Sox are willing to spend so much on payroll yet they consistently neglect spending on foreign free agents and the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 10:41 AM) The Sox are only in it every year because they have the most resources in the division (their payroll). It really has nothing to do with KW; it's actually the opposite. KW is the reason we have this ceiling where we are in it almost every year, but not winning it. For all the good trades KW has made, he and this organization has drafted horrendously and developed players horrifically. The Sox will never be a consistent winner with KW because the Sox don't draft and develop. Unless you can spend like the Yankees and Red Sox, you need to draft and develop well. And actually the Sawks and Yankees do draft and develop well. It's also boggles my mind that the Sox are willing to spend so much on payroll yet they consistently neglect spending on foreign free agents and the draft. I don't post much on this main board, but that post absolutely NAILED it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 QUOTE (hawkubes @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 09:28 AM) Let's fire Ozzie and let's fire KW. I'm so sick and tired of this talk. Ozzie's a great manager (yes, he makes mistakes, who doesn't) the players want to play for him. Kenny Williams has made some great moves, i'm so tired of everybody talkin smack about KW's moves. He's doing everything he can to make the white sox a winner, and that's what they're gonna do. Let's go Sox :gosoxretro: I'm not sick of the negativity, just sick of this team's play so far. My god, what a horrible start for a supposed contender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 12:57 PM) I'm not sick of the negativity, just sick of this team's play so far. My god, what a horrible start for a supposed contender. No doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigEdWalsh Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 I'm kinda sick of the negativity too. What's worse is I'm even more sick of BEING negative, because I am negative. For the better part of last year and so far through spring training and thus far this season I see little to be optimistic about. Start WINNING and this negativity might go away or at least lessen. By the way, some negativity is OK, we're not Cub fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 10:41 AM) The Sox are only in it every year because they have the most resources in the division (their payroll). It really has nothing to do with KW; it's actually the opposite. KW is the reason we have this ceiling where we are in it almost every year, but not winning it. For all the good trades KW has made, he and this organization has drafted horrendously and developed players horrifically. The Sox will never be a consistent winner with KW because the Sox don't draft and develop. Unless you can spend like the Yankees and Red Sox, you need to draft and develop well. And actually the Sawks and Yankees do draft and develop well. It's also boggles my mind that the Sox are willing to spend so much on payroll yet they consistently neglect spending on foreign free agents and the draft. Like Ordonez, Carlos Lee, Tadahito Iguchi, Shingo Takatsu, Alexei Ramirez and Dayan Viciedo? If there's ONE huge issue every Sox fan SHOULD have, it's with the Wilder/Dominican fiasco and the fact we haven't been able to get any prospects out of Venezuela when it's Ozzie's homeland. Nor, in the end, has Ozzie been able to use his connections to get any free agents here, other than maybe someone like Omar Vizquel. I guess you have to give Guillen SOME credit for being able to get the Freddy Garcia deal done, that's one occasion that can be cited. Who's the last Dominican prospect we developed? Jesus Pena? And for Venezuela, Clevelan Santeliz? Pretty abysmal. If Sale and Beckham both become stars, that's a huge improvement from the draft picks of 2000-2007. And certainly, we've never gotten involved in a "posting war" for one of the Japanese stars, but you could argue that unless you're the Red Sox or Yankees, doing so hasn't been so wise unless we're talking about a "once in a lifetime" player in his prime like Ichiro Suzuki. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 (edited) Sick of this team Edited April 23, 2011 by Milkman delivers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Would mlb.com laugh in my face if I asked for a refund? Hell I've only had it about 10 games now and we're 1-9 in that span. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 11:57 PM) Would mlb.com laugh in my face if I asked for a refund? Hell I've only had it about 10 games now and we're 1-9 in that span. And thus begins the hex. Retract your evil doing you evil person! You are obviously responsible for this fowl play!! Undo your evil deed and repent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 09:41 AM) The Sox are only in it every year because they have the most resources in the division (their payroll). It really has nothing to do with KW; it's actually the opposite. KW is the reason we have this ceiling where we are in it almost every year, but not winning it. For all the good trades KW has made, he and this organization has drafted horrendously and developed players horrifically. The Sox will never be a consistent winner with KW because the Sox don't draft and develop. Unless you can spend like the Yankees and Red Sox, you need to draft and develop well. And actually the Sawks and Yankees do draft and develop well. It's also boggles my mind that the Sox are willing to spend so much on payroll yet they consistently neglect spending on foreign free agents and the draft. Glad to see there are others who understand this. I'd also like one person to point out how the reaction of the fanbase to this start has been overly negative. It's been negative because the team is playing like s***, and there is no other way to react to that. Edited April 24, 2011 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 07:44 PM) Glad to see there are others who understand this. I'd also like one person to point out how the reaction of the fanbase to this start has been overly negative. It's been negative because the team is playing like s***, and there is no other way to react to that. This is nothing new. It cost us last year and may cost us again. Wasn't one of the excuses for falling out of it at the end was due to the fact they had to work so hard to get back in it. Guess what it will be the excuse again this September. Edited April 24, 2011 by Harry Chappas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 09:41 AM) The Sox are only in it every year because they have the most resources in the division (their payroll). It really has nothing to do with KW; it's actually the opposite. KW is the reason we have this ceiling where we are in it almost every year, but not winning it. For all the good trades KW has made, he and this organization has drafted horrendously and developed players horrifically. The Sox will never be a consistent winner with KW because the Sox don't draft and develop. Unless you can spend like the Yankees and Red Sox, you need to draft and develop well. And actually the Sawks and Yankees do draft and develop well. It's also boggles my mind that the Sox are willing to spend so much on payroll yet they consistently neglect spending on foreign free agents and the draft. I don't know why this isn't addressed more often, but a big problem with the drafting and development, at least in my opinion, seems to be Reinsdorf's relationship with Selig. JR seems to instruct our Player Development department to follow Selig's "slot system," whereas teams that you mentioned do not. They pay over slot money to compensate for their poor draft position and thus get players they have no business getting at their position in the draft. Meanwhile, we take the guy that is willing to sign for slot money, and in the instances we do take a guy that is a signability risk, we don't seem to ever get him signed. I feel like we could vastly improve our drafting if we were willing to tell Bud that we can't continue to play by these "guidelines" if we continue to see the rich get richer by ignoring them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 24, 2011 -> 03:14 AM) I don't know why this isn't addressed more often, but a big problem with the drafting and development, at least in my opinion, seems to be Reinsdorf's relationship with Selig. JR seems to instruct our Player Development department to follow Selig's "slot system," whereas teams that you mentioned do not. They pay over slot money to compensate for their poor draft position and thus get players they have no business getting at their position in the draft. Meanwhile, we take the guy that is willing to sign for slot money, and in the instances we do take a guy that is a signability risk, we don't seem to ever get him signed. I feel like we could vastly improve our drafting if we were willing to tell Bud that we can't continue to play by these "guidelines" if we continue to see the rich get richer by ignoring them. Absolutely, meanwhile KC and Detroit stack up their farm systems by going way over slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 10:18 PM) Absolutely, meanwhile KC and Detroit stack up their farm systems by going way over slot. And it's brought them incredible success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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