fire walker

[BigSqwert]

I see the bats responded last night to Walker's tutelage.

[southsider2k5]

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/07/08/wis...-really-matter/

 

(CBS) The White Sox are caught up in an offensive tailspin and their fans are fed up with Greg Walker. The Cubs are hopelessly tangled in a second straight lost season and their fans are unimpressed with Rudy Jaramillo.

 

And those two facts have me sitting here this morning again wondering – just like I have many times before – what exactly is the point of Major League hitting coaches anyway?

 

Do they really make a difference?

 

Any difference at all?

 

Now in his eighth season as hitting coach at U.S. Cellular Field, Walker doesn’t seem to be doing much good for the White Sox. Stocked with big-ticket hitters, the team’s punchless lineup has mustered a mere six runs in the past three games (all losses) while its No. 3 through 6 hitters have gone a staggering 0-for-28 during the last 18 innings.

 

Meanwhile, Jaramillo – in his second year with Cubs and reportedly the highest paid hitting coach in baseball – has a lineup that’s ranked eighth in baseball in batting average, but just 20th in on-base percentage, dead-last in walks and, before Thursday’s 10-run eruption in Washington, had scored only two more total runs than the pop-gun White Sox in the same number of games.

 

As hit men go, I wouldn’t say Walker and Jaramillo are exactly looking like the Sopranos.

 

But should anyone really expect them to be?

 

I’ve always felt that baseball is the sport where coaches have the least impact on the field. They don’t draw up plays – certainly not in the sense that football and basketball coaches do – and the game is unique in that it’s the defense that has constant control of the ball.

 

A successful baseball team is wholly reliant on its players executing individually while in the field. Managers, of course, can manipulate games to a certain extent with a variety of calls and lineup switches. And pitching coaches often work to develop players who are still quite raw, even once they reach the big league level.

 

But while I consider hitting a round ball with a round bat, squarely, the most difficult thing to do in sports, the fact is that by the time a position player makes a Major League roster, he already knows how to hit.

 

After all, that’s most likely how he got there in the first place.

 

So, really, what do MLB hitting coaches do?

 

A few years ago, John Levesque, sports columnist for the now defunct Seattle Post-Intelligencer, tried to answer that question when he wrote, “When it comes to imparting knowledge and teaching the principles of hitting, big-league hitting coaches really don’t do much of either…

 

“Even if they tried to teach hitting, they’d run into a solid wall of resistance from self-centered, supremely focused athletes who’ve made it this far on talent and ability and aren’t about to change their swings for anyone, even if he’s got street cred in Cooperstown.”

 

Former Minnesota Twins hitting coach Rob Ellis, who wrote a book with Hall of Fame slugger Mike Schmidt about hitting, took things a step further.

 

Ellis told Levesque, “There’s very little solid instruction going on [at the major league level]. The hitting coach tends to be a PR guy, a hitter’s best friend, a security blanket, a go-to guy for salve on his wounds, a friendly guy who’s a little bit psychologist and a little bit con man…

 

“I never met one truly effective hitting coach. The system is not set up to teach hitting.”

 

And that’s coming from a former MLB hitting coach.

 

Some hitting coaches have developed legends by having supposedly turned great hitters into, well, even greater ones. One high-profile example is longtime MLB coach Charley Lau, whose pupils during the 1970s and early ’80s included the likes of Hal McRae, George Brett, Carlton Fisk, Harold Baines and Ron Kittle.

 

Now, while I don’t doubt that Lau knew hitting inside and out, I also am not about to think that those star players didn’t already know how to hit a baseball by the time Lau even shook hands with them.

 

Lau disciple Walt Hriniak, in another instance, became best known for getting White Sox great Frank Thomas to buy into his hitting philosophy. But again, I tend to think that the Big Hurt would have still bashed most of his 521 career home runs no matter the name of his hitting instructor.

 

Maybe I’m wrong. But best I can figure, the main purpose of a big league hitting coach is to serving as a fall guy when an underachieving team isn’t quite yet ready to fire its manager. Otherwise, I’m not sure what they truly bring to the table.

 

And so, while White Sox and Cubs fans twist in the wind generated by whiffing sluggers, I’ll continue to wonder what justifies paying a big-time salary to a MLB hitting coach when he’s only able to coach.

 

And not actually hit.

 

If you have an answer of your own, please hit me with it.

[BigSqwert]

If they truly add no value then get rid of the position and pay for some better scouts.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

If they truly add no value then get rid of the position and pay for some better scouts.

 

In Latin America

[BigEdWalsh]

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/07/08/wis...-really-matter/

Pretty good read. Who hasn't wondered what purpose a major league hitting coach really serves. "But best I can figure, the main purpose of a big league hitting coach is to serving as a fall guy when an underachieving team isn’t quite yet ready to fire its manager." That's about it really. I wish to hell Kenny, Ozzie and the entire coaching staff except for Cooper would all be fired. Then we start anew and begin to make player changes and boy, I'd like to see a lot of player changes (a LOT). This team has just been simply embarrassingly bad and really boring and predictable. I'll continue to watch but I'm real quick to turn it off and find something (anything) else to do and I don't even want to go in the game thread any more, it's so depressing. Game threads should be fun but all it is any more is complaining about the same old stuff and rightfully so because all we see game after game is the same old stuff.

[Thad Bosley]

An interesting story about hitting coaches to sort of compare and contrast to the situation with the White Sox involves none other than my namesake here, (former Sox outfielder) Thad Bosley. Bosley was named hitting coach of the Texas Rangers over the winter, but on June 8th, after only two months on the job, he was fired from his position. Fired, despite the fact that the Rangers were the 3rd most productive team, offensively, in the league. So from a distance, the firing seemed somewhat odd not only because it only happend two months into the job, but because it appeared that Bosley had the results to back up the work he was doing. However, upon reading several players' accounts on their experience with Bosley from spring training through those first two months, it appears the Rangers attained those impressive offensive results in spite of Bosley's presence. In other words, the players were apparently not buying into Bosley's philosophy on hitting and thus pretty much just rejected and ignored him and did their own thing. Rangers management quickly detected the disconnect between the coach and the players and their collective rejection of his philosophy, and quickly moved to remove Bosley from his post.

 

I bring this story up as it sort of seems to be the flip of what might be going on with the Sox. You really never hear publicly (or at least I cannot recall such a case) where any of the Sox players have stated having an issue with Walker. In fact, if anything, you've heard the direct opposite, as for example, I've seen Konerko go on record a few times saying very complimentary things about Walker's approach and philosophy. So is it possible then, if not probable, that the flaw in the Sox' overall offensive process isn't their hitting coach's philosophy about hitting, or the drills and exercises he has the players run through in batting practice, or his review and analysis of video with the players, etc., but simply this particular set of players ability (or inability) to execute? It certainly could be both, but I think by now, and especially with the way the offense has struggled, that there would have been some sort of player revolt against Walker. Heck, it only took the Rangers two months to run Bosley out of town down there in Texas. But the lack of such a revolt by the Sox players leads me to believe our problem is more about the pupils rather than the teacher.

[jenksycat]

What's laughable is blaming Rios, Dunn and Beckham all on nothing but Walker. Everyone else from a hitting standpoint is doing about what you would expect or better. So if you're not going to change the line up, the most laughable thing would be expecting different results. See Einstein's definition of crazy or look at the Cubs. They changed hitting coaches a couple of times, finally hiring the great Jaramillo. The changed managers. They were stuck with the same core of players. The results are the same.

 

That's the thing that drives me nuts about the endless posts about coaches. Nothing will change. A new coach isn't going to miraculously cure Dunn or Rios, they're veterans and it is what it is.

 

I'll save my hate-energy for the Bears coaching staff that legitimately costs the teams games with their ineptitude. Not for hoping some guy who played in the minors 30 years ago is going to teach a 10 year MLB veteran how to hit 40 homeruns

[caulfield12]

An interesting story about hitting coaches to sort of compare and contrast to the situation with the White Sox involves none other than my namesake here, (former Sox outfielder) Thad Bosley. Bosley was named hitting coach of the Texas Rangers over the winter, but on June 8th, after only two months on the job, he was fired from his position. Fired, despite the fact that the Rangers were the 3rd most productive team, offensively, in the league. So from a distance, the firing seemed somewhat odd not only because it only happend two months into the job, but because it appeared that Bosley had the results to back up the work he was doing. However, upon reading several players' accounts on their experience with Bosley from spring training through those first two months, it appears the Rangers attained those impressive offensive results in spite of Bosley's presence. In other words, the players were apparently not buying into Bosley's philosophy on hitting and thus pretty much just rejected and ignored him and did their own thing. Rangers management quickly detected the disconnect between the coach and the players and their collective rejection of his philosophy, and quickly moved to remove Bosley from his post.

 

I bring this story up as it sort of seems to be the flip of what might be going on with the Sox. You really never hear publicly (or at least I cannot recall such a case) where any of the Sox players have stated having an issue with Walker. In fact, if anything, you've heard the direct opposite, as for example, I've seen Konerko go on record a few times saying very complimentary things about Walker's approach and philosophy. So is it possible then, if not probable, that the flaw in the Sox' overall offensive process isn't their hitting coach's philosophy about hitting, or the drills and exercises he has the players run through in batting practice, or his review and analysis of video with the players, etc., but simply this particular set of players ability (or inability) to execute? It certainly could be both, but I think by now, and especially with the way the offense has struggled, that there would have been some sort of player revolt against Walker. Heck, it only took the Rangers two months to run Bosley out of town down there in Texas. But the lack of such a revolt by the Sox players leads me to believe our problem is more about the pupils rather than the teacher.

 

I'll attribute it to the close-knit, insular nature of the way our organization operates and way Ozzie surrounds himself with "Sox insiders."

 

Very few players have ever turned against them and survived. Look what happened to Javy, Swisher and Cabrera for their independence. Even Jon Garland, to an extent. I remember when KW would meet with the players (Konerko/Thome/Dye) at mid-season and they'd tell him "they're fine as is...they don't need to add another piece."

 

Maybe trying to be independent is what got the likes of Brian Anderson, Fields and Getz in trouble with the organization. Who knows? Ozzie's never appeared to be a huge Beckham fan, and you wonder where that came from...or what Beckham did to give off the wrong impression back in 2009. You'd hear things like BA likes to party too much, likes the ladies, yada yada and you wonder if that was a legit beef the organization had or just Ozzie/Oney trying to set them up to make them look bad, as plenty of players in the past managed to live an Epicurean lifestyle away from the park while still being successful between the foul lines.

 

With veteran teams comprised of very few single players and more of a "family atmosphere," it seems like a very hard clubhouse to break into.

 

All speculation, obviously.

[Princess Dye]

FIRE WALKER WITH ME

 

Hitting coaches don't impact a team nearly as much as we'd like them to. You can hit or you can't. Little tweaks here and there aren't going to make a difference in this game of endless peaks & valleys. Roster upgrades would.

 

Unless like Rudy Jaramillo you have a bag full of steroids to offer

[Jerksticks]

^Yes, we just need a good pharmacist...or Mephistopheles

[justBLAZE]

Is Viciedo's "magic" service time days number up yet?

 

For about a week now, as far as I know.

[TheBigHurt]

What's laughable is blaming Rios, Dunn and Beckham all on nothing but Walker. Everyone else from a hitting standpoint is doing about what you would expect or better. So if you're not going to change the line up, the most laughable thing would be expecting different results. See Einstein's definition of crazy or look at the Cubs. They changed hitting coaches a couple of times, finally hiring the great Jaramillo. The changed managers. They were stuck with the same core of players. The results are the same.

 

And you still haven't addressed my point about Cooper.

 

And who the hell is balming it *all* on Walker? Do you really have to be so dramatic to try to make a point? ALL of you people defending Walker keep preaching about a hitting coach apparently makes NOOOOOOO difference at all and has no effect on how guys hit, right? So then why are you guys so adamant about NOT firing Walker? This is entirely irrational. If it makes no difference, fire him and hire someone else. Something to potentially gain but NOTHING to lose. Also, by your claims, no coach matters at all and Cooper should get ZERO credit for ANYTHING in terms of our pitching staff. Correct? I feel I have to repeat this since you ignored it earlier.

 

In any case, a hitting coach DOES make a difference. Personalities matter. People saying coaches make no difference at all is a gigantic "derp."

 

 

Hitting coaches don't impact a team nearly as much as we'd like them to. You can hit or you can't. Little tweaks here and there aren't going to make a difference in this game of endless peaks & valleys. Roster upgrades would.

 

Cool, then you'd have NO problem with firing Walker, as would anyone else using this (assumption-based) logic.

 

 

 

The defense is as always: ignorance, cop-outs and excuses, OH MY!

 

Hey, mods... is "obtuse" a word I can get away with or is that considered flaming/insult?

Edited July 9, 2011 by TheBigHurt

[Wanne]

And you still haven't addressed my point about Cooper.

 

And who the hell is balming it *all* on Walker? Do you really have to be so dramatic to try to make a point? ALL of you people defending Walker keep preaching about a hitting coach apparently makes NOOOOOOO difference at all and has no effect on how guys hit, right? So then why are you guys so adamant about NOT firing Walker? This is entirely irrational. If it makes no difference, fire him and hire someone else. Something to potentially gain but NOTHING to lose. Also, by your claims, no coach matters at all and Cooper should get ZERO credit for ANYTHING in terms of our pitching staff. Correct? I feel I have to repeat this since you ignored it earlier.

 

Agreed...kinda silly isn't it?

 

 

In any case, a hitting coach DOES make a difference. Personalities matter. People saying coaches make no difference at all is a gigantic "derp."

 

This is my biggest beef. Don't you think players reflect the personalities of their coaches. Ozzie's a different animal...and I think everybody has pretty much excepted the fact he's an enigma. But the personality of the other coaches...zzzzzzzzzzz. Walker, Harold and Cora have the personalities of a house plant. You don't think that rubs off?!? Oh...but they're professionals right!?! Horses***. Tell ya what...do any of you get stagnant at your job? Don't you need a lift?...somebody to stir things up once in a while or intrigue your senses to excel further? I know I do. If I'm bored (which I am completely)...I honestly check out. I collect my paycheck and don't really give a crap about going that extra yard. It gets hard motivating myself all the time. I'm good at what I do...but I get bored and complacent. I need some motivation. So does this team...I just don't see it coming from the current coaching staff.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Wanne

[Leonard Washington]

Agreed...kinda silly isn't it?

 

 

 

 

This is my biggest beef. Don't you think players reflect the personalities of their coaches. Ozzie's a different animal...and I think everybody has pretty much excepted the fact he's an enigma. But the personality of the other coaches...zzzzzzzzzzz. Walker, Harold and Cora have the personalities of a house plant. You don't think that rubs off?!? Oh...but they're professionals right!?! Horses***. Tell ya what...do any of you get stagnant at your job? Don't you need a lift?...somebody to stir things up once in a while or intrigue your senses to excel further? I know I do. If I'm bored (which I am completely)...I honestly check out. I collect my paycheck and don't really give a crap about going that extra yard. It gets hard motivating myself all the time. I'm good at what I do...but I get bored and complacent. I need some motivation. So does this team...I just don't see it coming from the current coaching staff.

I often wonder what the hell Harold Baines is doing as a first base coach. It just doesn't make much sense to me.

[TheBigHurt]

Agreed...kinda silly isn't it?

 

 

 

 

This is my biggest beef. Don't you think players reflect the personalities of their coaches. Ozzie's a different animal...and I think everybody has pretty much excepted the fact he's an enigma. But the personality of the other coaches...zzzzzzzzzzz. Walker, Harold and Cora have the personalities of a house plant. You don't think that rubs off?!? Oh...but they're professionals right!?! Horses***. Tell ya what...do any of you get stagnant at your job? Don't you need a lift?...somebody to stir things up once in a while or intrigue your senses to excel further? I know I do. If I'm bored (which I am completely)...I honestly check out. I collect my paycheck and don't really give a crap about going that extra yard. It gets hard motivating myself all the time. I'm good at what I do...but I get bored and complacent. I need some motivation. So does this team...I just don't see it coming from the current coaching staff.

 

Careful, careful! That might be a little too much logic for some people to handle! lol.

 

Seriously, it amazes me to no end how people downplay the concept of personalities and attitudes as an epidemic. Your environment takes a big toll on you as a person yourself. This is pretty simple and shouldn't need to be explained to anybody.

[Leonard Washington]

Careful, careful! That might be a little too much logic for some people to handle! lol.

 

Seriously, it amazes me to no end how people downplay the concept of personalities and attitudes as an epidemic. Your environment takes a big toll on you as a person yourself. This is pretty simple and shouldn't need to be explained to anybody.

I think anybody that has ever had a job realizes the importance of management's attitude.

 

I remember when I first started as an intern with the Blue Jays. Ricciardi (who was always nothing but super friendly to everybody in my experiences) had basically accepted defeat, both publicly and internally. I was essentially a fly on the wall, but it felt as though the entire office was spinning their wheels.

 

Ricciardi got fired. My boy Anthopoulos took his spot. At his first quarterly union address he challenged the entire company to erase the self defeatist attitude. He argued the Blue Jays had once led MLB in attendance/payroll and could do so again. He argued that through proper management the Blue Jays could prosper once again. Almost immediately the mood of the office changed. I remained a fly on the wall, but the change in attitude was tangible.

 

My point is...the attitude of leadership absolutely matters in the big scheme of things. Sometimes a change of voice makes all the difference.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Pale Sox

[Dick Allen]

I think anybody that has ever had a job realizes the importance of management's attitude.

 

I remember when I first started as an intern with the Blue Jays. Ricciardi (who was always nothing but super friendly to everybody in my experiences) had basically accepted defeat, both publicly and internally. I was essentially a fly on the wall, but it felt as though the entire office was spinning their wheels.

 

Ricciardi got fired. My boy Anthopoulos took his spot. At his first quarterly union address he challenged the entire company to erase the self defeatist attitude. He argued the Blue Jays had once led MLB in attendance/payroll and could do so again. He argued that through proper management the Blue Jays could prosper once again. Almost immediately the mood of the office changed. I remained a fly on the wall, but the change in attitude was tangible.

 

My point is...the attitude of leadership absolutely matters in the big scheme of things. Sometimes a change of voice makes all the difference.

It seems like it was a nice speech, however, thel Blue Jays still don't draw very well. I will say this, I do agree with his premise. I've been saying for years if the White Sox spent as much time trying to figure out how to kick Minnesota's ass as they do kissing it, they wouldn't be in the quandry they are currently in. They just seem to accept the Twins are better than them, no matter what the standings or the line ups say.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Dick Allen

[Chicago White Sox]

It seems like it was a nice speech, however, thel Blue Jays still don't draw very well. I will say this, I do agree with his premise. I've been saying for years if the White Sox spent as much time trying to figure out how to kick Minnesota's ass as they do kissing it, they wouldn't be in the quandry they are currently in. They just seem to accept the Twins are better than them, no matter what the standings or the line ups say.

And that starts with our coaching staff. Ozzie is constantly praising the Twins and how they "play baseball the right way". I can't stand that s***. Why can't he go to the press and say "I hate those f***ers and we'll do whatever it takes to beat them". Bring some hatred and anger to the table. This team continues to rape and pillage us year after year. I'm so sick of this cowardly lion act where we accept defeat before the series. If Ozzie can't find a way for us to beat the Twins, then KW needs to go find another manager right away, because we'll never win the division going 4-15 against them every year.

[caulfield12]

I'll state this again. At least through May 2009, Ozzie was 51-47 against Gardenhire.

 

You could have argued we were outcoached/outmanaged down the stretch in 2006, but there were a number of well-documented reasons that team finally ran out of gas.

 

You had 2003, but that could be placed on Manuel.

 

But 7-30? To go from a winning record to putting up the worst record in baseball of any team against another (with over 20 games played) during that time period. That's almost impossible to do, even if you try. There has to be a deeper explanation which nobody in the White Sox organization seems to be able to acknowledge, admit or comes to terms with.

[Princess Dye]

Cool, then you'd have NO problem with firing Walker, as would anyone else using this (assumption-based) logic.

 

I really don't care that much. Keep Walker. Fire Walker. You need to upgrade the offensive talent here. These guys up and down the lineup are simply not OBP guys historically, except Konerko, Dunn and maybe CQ. It's a huge problem that the FO just didn't seem to care about when putting the team together.

 

Now we'll blame that reality on Walker to give ourselves comfort.

[southsider2k5]

And you still haven't addressed my point about Cooper.

 

And who the hell is balming it *all* on Walker? Do you really have to be so dramatic to try to make a point? ALL of you people defending Walker keep preaching about a hitting coach apparently makes NOOOOOOO difference at all and has no effect on how guys hit, right? So then why are you guys so adamant about NOT firing Walker? This is entirely irrational. If it makes no difference, fire him and hire someone else. Something to potentially gain but NOTHING to lose. Also, by your claims, no coach matters at all and Cooper should get ZERO credit for ANYTHING in terms of our pitching staff. Correct? I feel I have to repeat this since you ignored it earlier.

 

In any case, a hitting coach DOES make a difference. Personalities matter. People saying coaches make no difference at all is a gigantic "derp."

 

 

 

 

Cool, then you'd have NO problem with firing Walker, as would anyone else using this (assumption-based) logic.

 

 

 

The defense is as always: ignorance, cop-outs and excuses, OH MY!

 

Hey, mods... is "obtuse" a word I can get away with or is that considered flaming/insult?

 

Are you really trying to say that there is no difference between hitting and pitching? Speaking of obtuse.

[Dick Allen]

And you still haven't addressed my point about Cooper.

 

And who the hell is balming it *all* on Walker? Do you really have to be so dramatic to try to make a point? ALL of you people defending Walker keep preaching about a hitting coach apparently makes NOOOOOOO difference at all and has no effect on how guys hit, right? So then why are you guys so adamant about NOT firing Walker? This is entirely irrational. If it makes no difference, fire him and hire someone else. Something to potentially gain but NOTHING to lose. Also, by your claims, no coach matters at all and Cooper should get ZERO credit for ANYTHING in terms of our pitching staff. Correct? I feel I have to repeat this since you ignored it earlier.

 

In any case, a hitting coach DOES make a difference. Personalities matter. People saying coaches make no difference at all is a gigantic "derp."

 

 

 

 

Cool, then you'd have NO problem with firing Walker, as would anyone else using this (assumption-based) logic.

 

 

 

The defense is as always: ignorance, cop-outs and excuses, OH MY!

 

Hey, mods... is "obtuse" a word I can get away with or is that considered flaming/insult?

Actually I never said a hitting coach makes no diffierence, and my deal with Cooper is everyone gives him credit for the good, but no criticism whatsoever for the bad, which is exactly the opposite how the same fans view Greg Walker. They blame him if the player isn't doing well but give him no credit when they are performing exceptionally.

 

I personally think Walker is in the upper half of hitting coaches. You can make a change just to make a change but thats pretty silly and it could backfire. Notice Paul Konerko before Walker took over in 2003. I would imagine Paulie could fix himself a little more competiently now, but you can't be sure. If you really want the offense to improve, you will need better hitters.

 

If the White Sox don't hit, Greg Walker needs to go. If they don't pitch, its because the pitchers screwed up. To me that's not right and until the blame is placed where it should be placed and something is done to change it, the results will remain the same.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Dick Allen

[greg775]

<!--quoteo(post=2428116:date=Jul 9, 2011 -> 06:48 AM:name=Dick Allen)-->

<!--quotec-->It seems like it was a nice speech, however, thel Blue Jays still don't draw very well. I will say this, I do agree with his premise. I've been saying for years if the White Sox spent as much time trying to figure out how to kick Minnesota's ass as they do kissing it, they wouldn't be in the quandry they are currently in. They just seem to accept the Twins are better than them, no matter what the standings or the line ups say.

And that starts with our coaching staff. Ozzie is constantly praising the Twins and how they "play baseball the right way". I can't stand that s***. Why can't he go to the press and say "I hate those f***ers and we'll do whatever it takes to beat them". Bring some hatred and anger to the table. This team continues to rape and pillage us year after year. I'm so sick of this cowardly lion act where we accept defeat before the series. If Ozzie can't find a way for us to beat the Twins, then KW needs to go find another manager right away, because we'll never win the division going 4-15 against them every year.

 

 

I'll state this again. At least through May 2009, Ozzie was 51-47 against Gardenhire.

 

You could have argued we were outcoached/outmanaged down the stretch in 2006, but there were a number of well-documented reasons that team finally ran out of gas.

 

You had 2003, but that could be placed on Manuel.

 

But 7-30? To go from a winning record to putting up the worst record in baseball of any team against another (with over 20 games played) during that time period. That's almost impossible to do, even if you try. There has to be a deeper explanation which nobody in the White Sox organization seems to be able to acknowledge, admit or comes to terms with.

 

1.) Excellent posts. Cowardly lion act is a good way to put it. And you are right 2-17 or 4-15 against one team will cost you the division against that team every year. It's going to be tough to turn around at this point.

2.) 7-30. You are right. It's almost impossible. And it's going to get worse. This is crazy. The big problem is Detroit is close to having the same confidence against us. And believe me, KC plays differently against the White Sox. KC is an abysmal baseball team but plays the Sox with a different swagger, it's like they know they are better. Very weird dynamic.

Edited July 9, 2011 by greg775

[TheBigHurt]

Are you really trying to say that there is no difference between hitting and pitching? Speaking of obtuse.

 

Are you really trying to say one is relevant and the other is not? Would love some insight from the arguing side instead of just snide/empty comments and lapses of logic.

 

Again, at the very least, attitudes/personalities matter and each individual person will have a different influence as a coach. This isn't a difficult concept.

[TheBigHurt]

Actually I never said a hitting coach makes no diffierence, and my deal with Cooper is everyone gives him credit for the good, but no criticism whatsoever for the bad, which is exactly the opposite how the same fans view Greg Walker. They blame him if the player isn't doing well but give him no credit when they are performing exceptionally.

 

I personally think Walker is in the upper half of hitting coaches. You can make a change just to make a change but thats pretty silly and it could backfire. Notice Paul Konerko before Walker took over in 2003. I would imagine Paulie could fix himself a little more competiently now, but you can't be sure. If you really want the offense to improve, you will need better hitters.

 

If the White Sox don't hit, Greg Walker needs to go. If they don't pitch, its because the pitchers screwed up. To me that's not right and until the blame is placed where it should be placed and something is done to change it, the results will remain the same.

 

I don't disagree. However as long as we've had both coaches I think hitting has been overall a MUCH bigger issue than hitting. Besides, numerous "meh" pitchers have come here only to turn themselves into real names. What hitters have done that? I can't think of a single one off-hand. Quentin is about as close as it gets and for the most part that was simply one year.