Andrew Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Its not about Santos closing. Its about Santos pitching in the 8th. I would have been fine with Santos coming in during the 9th to try and nail it down. So, you had the problem with Sale getting pulled against Jones? If so, I don't think anybody disagrees with you. Or, at least, I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 (edited) I dont care what happens to Thornton, but putting Santos in to close his first game in Yankee stadium is a pretty big deal no matter what. You then add on top of that he has to get 4 outs, and face Cano, Teix and Arod. He did the job because hes a stud, but Ozzie did him no favors. He bailed Ozzie out and thats what star players do, but I dont agree that Ozzie made the right call. There is a difference. (Edit) Yes pulling Sale for Jones is what lead to my anger and using Santos not Crain, if Santos is the closer. Edited April 26, 2011 by Soxbadger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 More than anything in a pen that has sucked this year, it sends the message that ozzie has no confidence in all of you, because you are only capable of getting an out or two. :shrug: I have yet to see MT get an "out or two". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 09:30 PM) Its not about Santos closing. Its about Santos pitching in the 8th. I would have been fine with Santos coming in during the 9th to try and nail it down. Not sure what you're angry about. It was a 4-out save. He threw a total of 16 pitches in the 8th and 9th combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 09:32 PM) I dont care what happens to Thornton, but putting Santos in to close his first game in Yankee stadium is a pretty big deal no matter what. You then add on top of that he has to get 4 outs, and face Cano, Teix and Arod. He did the job because hes a stud, but Ozzie did him no favors. He bailed Ozzie out and thats what star players do, but I dont agree that Ozzie made the right call. There is a difference. (Edit) Yes pulling Sale for Jones is what lead to my anger and using Santos not Crain, if Santos is the closer. If Sergio isn't a closer, it is much better to find out in April, versus finding out in August. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 09:32 PM) I dont care what happens to Thornton, but putting Santos in to close his first game in Yankee stadium is a pretty big deal no matter what. You then add on top of that he has to get 4 outs, and face Cano, Teix and Arod. He did the job because hes a stud, but Ozzie did him no favors. He bailed Ozzie out and thats what star players do, but I dont agree that Ozzie made the right call. There is a difference. I completely agree with your entire premise. Sitting on the bench in what was a pretty long top of the 9th and then facing the 2, 3, & 4 was not setting him up for the easiest save. Thank goodness he made Ozzie's questionable decision a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 QUOTE (Andrew @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 09:33 PM) :shrug: I have yet to see MT get an "out or two". Which is exactly why I go with a guy who has gotten outs this year. He has earned a shot at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 09:35 PM) Which is exactly why I go with a guy who has gotten outs this year. He has earned a shot at least. Again. That wasn't the questionable decision. Having him come in for the 8th and then the 9th was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 09:36 PM) Again. That wasn't the questionable decision. Having him come in for the 8th and then the 9th was. Why? What was so hard about the 8th that he couldn't keep going? If he gets into trouble, you still have Thornton and Crain left to throw out for match ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 (edited) Its revisionist history to say how many pitches he had to use in the 8th. If he goes out and has to throw 15 to Chavez, then what? What if he throws 30 to get out of the inning? Now we are up 1-0, is Thornton now our closer again? We have a ton of pitchers on the damn roster, if they cant get me an out against a righty or lefty, than they are not on my team. Its 1 out with no one on base. If you cant deliver that, Ill find some one else. Edited April 26, 2011 by Soxbadger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 09:38 PM) Its revisionist history to say how many pitches he had to use in the 8th. If he goes out and has to throw 15 to Chavez, then what? What if he throws 30 to get out of the inning? Now we are up 1-0, is Thornton now our closer again? We have a ton of pitchers on the damn roster, if they cant get me an out against a righty or lefty, than they are not on my team. Period, its 1 out with no one on base. If you cant deliver that, Ill find some one else. Again, if he struggles to get out Chavez, he still has Crain and Thornton. That could very well have changed who came into the 9th. At that point in the 8th inning you have lost 10 of 11, and you want your best reliever in there at that point. You have got to get out of that inning. It is like game 7 where you can't afford to save anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 (edited) Its revisionist history to say how many pitches he had to use in the 8th. If he goes out and has to throw 15 to Chavez, then what? What if he throws 30 to get out of the inning? Now we are up 1-0, is Thornton now our closer again? We have a ton of pitchers on the damn roster, if they cant get me an out against a righty or lefty, than they are not on my team. Its 1 out with no one on base. If you cant deliver that, Ill find some one else. Now you're trying to have it both ways. First - forget MT. NOBODY but you is advocating him. Second - What if? 3 people already acknowledged that the right-lefty thing was horses*** pulling Sale against Jones anyway. That was 2 outs at that point. Girardi burned 3....3 player spots over that. Honestly...there is no history to play against Sale. He is new and raw and has fantastic s***. Let him pitch. He'd have f***ing torched Jones, IMO anyway. As long as MT never took his jacket off, this game was (finally) well managed from my seat. Edited April 26, 2011 by Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 But it wasnt game 7 of the World Series, it was the first game of a series in NY, with a pitcher who I hope can be with the Sox for a really long time. If Santos is going to blow his first save, its going to be 3 outs. No convincing me otherwise, unless it was a real elimination game, or maybe even a game in September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Where have I advocated Matt Thonrton? All Ive asked is, What is his role if he cant even get you 1 out anymore? Im basically saying we should trade him today while we can maybe convince some one hes worth something. Otherwise, what is the point of having him? Why do you keep thinking I support Thornton, Im just wondering what the hell the Sox are doing with this pen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 09:43 PM) But it wasnt game 7 of the World Series, it was the first game of a series in NY, with a pitcher who I hope can be with the Sox for a really long time. If Santos is going to blow his first save, its going to be 3 outs. No convincing me otherwise, unless it was a real elimination game, or maybe even a game in September. I call bulls***. the Sox have just lost 10 of 11. They just had the general manager come in and address the team. They are sitting on the highest payroll in team history, with a team the owner has already said they can't afford. If you think winning tonight wasn't important with the chance the Sox had to win the game, you are in denial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Closers get 4 out saves all the freakin time. And right now with Sergio being by far and away our best reliever it really was the most obvious choice to throw him out there for the 8th and the 9th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Argue what you want, youll just never convince me that leaving Sale against Jones or having Chavez against a lefty with Santos pitching the 9th wasnt a better decision. Santos did the job, but if that game was such a major game, Ozzie put it on the back of some one who has never done that before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 08:45 PM) Where have I advocated Matt Thonrton? All Ive asked is, What is his role if he cant even get you 1 out anymore? Im basically saying we should trade him today while we can maybe convince some one hes worth something. Otherwise, what is the point of having him? Why do you keep thinking I support Thornton, Im just wondering what the hell the Sox are doing with this pen. Thornton will be back out there in high risk situations when he gets himself right, it's that simple. Right now there's clearly something wrong with him and with this team needing every win they can get , you're not going to f*** around with 3 pitchers for 4 outs when you can just use your best to close the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 (edited) I see no need to argue this one tonight. Sergio was the right call. Why? Because the Sox haven't had a need for a closer in what, 11 games? It was time to throw him out there rather than have Thornton face even one batter. Like mod said, Thornton can be used in pressure cooker again after he and the team get on a bit steadier ground. Sergio baby. Edited April 26, 2011 by greg775 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 09:48 PM) Argue what you want, youll just never convince me that leaving Sale against Jones or having Chavez against a lefty with Santos pitching the 9th wasnt a better decision. Santos did the job, but if that game was such a major game, Ozzie put it on the back of some one who has never done that before. What has Sale done this year to show that he is the man for that situation over Santos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 08:48 PM) Argue what you want, youll just never convince me that leaving Sale against Jones or having Chavez against a lefty with Santos pitching the 9th wasnt a better decision. Santos did the job, but if that game was such a major game, Ozzie put it on the back of some one who has never done that before. Dude, are you drunk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 I call bulls***. the Sox have just lost 10 of 11. They just had the general manager come in and address the team. They are sitting on the highest payroll in team history, with a team the owner has already said they can't afford. If you think winning tonight wasn't important with the chance the Sox had to win the game, you are in denial. ^^ That part, Badge. Also, you advocated him in an earlier post where you said you care about players. Maybe you do - that's fine. Maybe you really like certain guys and want them to succeed and take it hard when they fail or aren't called upon. But this team is losing at a 90% clip in a division where the Cleveland Indians are in the lead, and the Tigers, Sox, and Twinkies have all been involved in a 163 game season in the last 3 years just to be called "winner". These games f***ing count and they mean something NOW. And that's without talking about how we should have 5 Ws more than we do. I'm tired of excuses and explanations from the White Sox organization when we are REPEATEDLY in this position. So it was really nice...to see pride put down and go with guys who are pitching well (almost - I still think Sale could've/should've stayed). In conclusion - Fire Walker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 09:52 PM) What has Sale done this year to show that he is the man for that situation over Santos? And to repeat again... We have NO ONE who has been a closer before. ANYONE who you put into that situation is going to be new at it. Whether that is Matt, Serg, Jesse, or Will Ohman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 No but Im not sure how people can just say Santos first save being a 4 out save in Yankee stadium was an amazing decision. If Santos is your closer you bring him in the 9th, and use match ups in the 8th. The 4 out save worked today, but that is not a strategy I want to see the rest of the season. Next thing its 5 outs then its 6, you just arent going to get away with that forever. Use match ups in the 7th and 8th, closer in the 9th. Im really not sure why what im saying is so groundbreaking, most teams always do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 They won that is all I care about. Guillen needed this win. Santos got out of the 8th and was left in there to finish it. No problem. This offense still sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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