White Sox (Humber) v. Yankees (Burnett) 6:05pm

[Soxbadger]

I have a right to my opinion, if you arent going to post on a message board and give your opinion, you have no worth on a message board (imo). Id rather read people who are completely wrong, but at least think for themselves, than people who just repeat what the manager says or what players say in interviews.

 

As for a players mental state, Im not sure where I actually even mentioned that.

 

I merely stated that if I (key word I) was running the Sox, I would have saved Santos for the 9th and used match ups in the 8th (or more than likely just told Sale to strike out Jones).

 

Not sure where you are going here, itd be one thing if I constantly harped on the Sox or Ozzie, but this is one of the few times that I have ever been this outspokenly negative.

[Andrew]

Just got back - helluva game and it's so great to beat the yankees at home. their fans are such pricks.

 

observations:

 

obvs Humber was sick. Even after the hit to A-Rod maintained his composure and didn't crack. Helluva job for just your 6th ML start.

 

Ozzie is a terrible bullpen manager. Taking out Sale? Retarded. Lucky it worked out but jesus...

 

Beckham's close to getting it back - the two balls he hit were scorchers, especially the last one to right.

 

Oh, and Yankees fans are pricks. (fortunately tho my bro was with me wearing his Mets hat so he got the worst of it. lol)

 

See???? I said the same s***, like you Badge, when it happened, so nobody is on the Ozzie bullpen mgmt tip. And this man was there where you get the best feel for the game.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Andrew

[Soxbadger]

That has been my whole point. I hate Ozzie's bullpen management.

 

Ive just been constantly trying to see the light at the end of the tunnel, but tonight just showed he has 0 plan.

[iamshack]

I have a right to my opinion, if you arent going to post on a message board and give your opinion, you have no worth on a message board (imo). Id rather read people who are completely wrong, but at least think for themselves, than people who just repeat what the manager says or what players say in interviews.

 

As for a players mental state, Im not sure where I actually even mentioned that.

 

I merely stated that if I (key word I) was running the Sox, I would have saved Santos for the 9th and used match ups in the 8th (or more than likely just told Sale to strike out Jones).

 

Not sure where you are going here, itd be one thing if I constantly harped on the Sox or Ozzie, but this is one of the few times that I have ever been this outspokenly negative.

You're calling other people's opinions "incredibly dumb." You didn't expect to catch some s*** blowing back in the wind for saying that?

 

You have mentioned about 5 times that you are concerned about Sergio being hurt or ruined if he would have failed. I was assuming you meant mentally and not physically.

[Rowand44]

This anger over using your best reliever to get a 4 out save when no one else in the damn bullpen has been able to get an out this season is perplexing to say the least.

 

Ozzie's managerial moves piss me off more times than not but his plan tonight was to win a ballgame. You're looking way too far into this.

[Andrew]

That has been my whole point. I hate Ozzie's bullpen management.

 

Ive just been constantly trying to see the light at the end of the tunnel, but tonight just showed he has 0 plan.

 

Uggh.... I quit. You're all over the place. I'd way rather b**** about the lack of hitting.

 

[Soxbadger]

I said his argument was dumb, and most of that was because the poster doesnt seem to understand my argument, which makes his argument back make no sense to me. Once we realized that neither of us are on the same page, it hasnt been a thing.

 

It has nothing to do with Ozzie, Santos or anything other than what I have seen in my life. I feel that I have seen players get messed up due to blown save situations, and after watching Thornton fail so hard, I just would be extra cautious with Santos.

 

I stand by what I said, Ozzie shouldnt have put Santos in during the 8th if he planned to use him as the closer in the 9th. I would not have done it. The Sox won, Im glad to be wrong, I just think that we need to have a much better plan in the future.

 

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

[iamshack]

I said his argument was dumb, and most of that was because the poster doesnt seem to understand my argument, which makes his argument back make no sense to me. Once we realized that neither of us are on the same page, it hasnt been a thing.

 

It has nothing to do with Ozzie, Santos or anything other than what I have seen in my life. I feel that I have seen players get messed up due to blown save situations, and after watching Thornton fail so hard, I just would be extra cautious with Santos.

 

I stand by what I said, Ozzie shouldnt have put Santos in during the 8th if he planned to use him as the closer in the 9th. I would not have done it. The Sox won, Im glad to be wrong, I just think that we need to have a much better plan in the future.

 

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

And that's your opinion. We get that. You're arguing it as if you expect everyone to agree with you, which seems highly unlikely given the responses you've been getting.

 

Additionally, one would think you would take into account the fact that Ozzie knows these players far more than you do, so he maybe, just might be able to determine who can handle what and who cannot a bit more than you or I.

[witesoxfan]

Jones v. Sale or when Jones gets pinch hit, bring in crain, then he brings in Chavez, bring in Thornton for 1 batter, bring in Santos to close.

 

I mean there are a million ways to get 1 out.

 

Not sure if this is covered, but a pitcher has to either face atleast one batter or record atleast one out (which can be done with a man on base where he picks said guy off).

 

So once Ozzie brings in Santos, Santos HAS to face Chavez. And I absolutely want nothing to do with a lefty facing Andruw Jones, he has become a very, very good hitter against left handed pitching.

[Soxbadger]

Not expecting anyone to agree with me at all. Had an annoying day, and instead of my normal "Im not going to get involved" attitude, I decided that I was going to say what I felt. It happens once every 5 years, I stopped getting involved a long time ago, and for the most part I stick with that, but every once in a while a brief moment in time happens where I just cant stop myself.

 

As for the second part, of course. Even a ball boy arguably has more contact with the White Sox than an average fan on a message board.

 

But that doesnt mean that I as an average fan on a message board, dont have the right to make a logical argument about why that manager may have made a bad decision.

 

Otherwise, why have the message board.

 

If I just wanted to congratulate myself on my own brilliance Id start a blog or become a sports journalist (zing haha).

 

[Soxbadger]

Why couldnt Ozzie have put in Crain instead of Santos to face Jones?

 

(Thornton for 1 batter was if Crain failed, I thought a lefty was up next but now im not sure if Granderson was 2 batters)

Edited April 26, 2011 by Soxbadger

[witesoxfan]

Why couldnt Ozzie have put in Crain instead of Santos to face Jones?

 

(Thornton for 1 batter was if Crain failed, I thought a lefty was up next but now im not sure if Granderson was 2 batters)

 

Oh he absolutely could have, and I would have had no problem with it. I really don't like that he let Santos go multiple innings simply because he has to sit on the bench for a while and go back out and pitch again afterwards, which can be a little extra taxing on the arm. As a reliever, you need your A+ stuff every single outing because you usually don't have something else you can rely on, and if the Sox need a save tomorrow, it wouldn't be a huge surprise if Santos is just a little bit off.

[iamshack]

Not expecting anyone to agree with me at all. Had an annoying day, and instead of my normal "Im not going to get involved" attitude, I decided that I was going to say what I felt. It happens once every 5 years, I stopped getting involved a long time ago, and for the most part I stick with that, but every once in a while a brief moment in time happens where I just cant stop myself.

 

As for the second part, of course. Even a ball boy arguably has more contact with the White Sox than an average fan on a message board.

 

But that doesnt mean that I as an average fan on a message board, dont have the right to make a logical argument about why that manager may have made a bad decision.

 

Otherwise, why have the message board.

 

If I just wanted to congratulate myself on my own brilliance Id start a blog or become a sports journalist (zing haha).

I absolutely respect your right to your opinion. I just think when that opinion includes calling the opinions of others "incredibly dumb," you've got to expect to catch some blowback.

 

As for your complaints about Ozzie's lack of a plan, I think you're probably right. He's trying to keep a sinking ship afloat. He's probably ignoring the long-term implications of some things in favor of the short-term necessity to win ball games.

 

As ss2k has said, I think it's hard to criticize any plan at this point when just about everyone he's handed the ball to has s*** the field.

[greg775]

I said his argument was dumb, and most of that was because the poster doesnt seem to understand my argument, which makes his argument back make no sense to me. Once we realized that neither of us are on the same page, it hasnt been a thing.

 

It has nothing to do with Ozzie, Santos or anything other than what I have seen in my life. I feel that I have seen players get messed up due to blown save situations, and after watching Thornton fail so hard, I just would be extra cautious with Santos.

 

I stand by what I said, Ozzie shouldnt have put Santos in during the 8th if he planned to use him as the closer in the 9th. I would not have done it. The Sox won, Im glad to be wrong, I just think that we need to have a much better plan in the future.

 

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

 

 

Not expecting anyone to agree with me at all. Had an annoying day, and instead of my normal "Im not going to get involved" attitude, I decided that I was going to say what I felt. It happens once every 5 years, I stopped getting involved a long time ago, and for the most part I stick with that, but every once in a while a brief moment in time happens where I just cant stop myself.

 

 

As for the second part, of course. Even a ball boy arguably has more contact with the White Sox than an average fan on a message board.

 

But that doesnt mean that I as an average fan on a message board, dont have the right to make a logical argument about why that manager may have made a bad decision.

 

Otherwise, why have the message board.

 

If I just wanted to congratulate myself on my own brilliance Id start a blog or become a sports journalist (zing haha).

 

No need to apologize Badger. It's interesting to watch other people get in 'fights' on here after all the fights I got in last year.

I can totally see your point.

Normally I might agree. It's just that I've wanted Santos to be the 'closer' for a while now and I know Soria with the Royals used to have four and five out saves a lot, so I was glad to see Ozz go to Santos, even tho as you say, Crain could have been used in the 8th.

Soria, though, has had several one and a half inning saves for the inept Royals.

Edited April 26, 2011 by greg775

[Soxbadger]

I have no problem with blow back.

 

I just get annoyed when my point isnt coming across clearly and then I end up having to try and respond to several points at once, which I then get lazy and just blur everything together, which makes it even less coherent. But then I stop caring because its just a message board argument and I know at minimum I wont say anything to bury myself. Not to mention the game was going on and I was just hoping that Ozzie didnt some how find a way to snatch defeat from victory again.

 

As for Santos compared to Soria. Im not saying Santos should never go 4,5 or 6 outs, Im just saying today, his first save at yankee stadium while the Sox are really struggling, is not the day I give him a difficult save. Maybe after he has 5-10 saves I start to give him a longer rope, but today, I give him every chance to succeed.

[greg775]

I have no problem with blow back.

 

I just get annoyed when my point isnt coming across clearly and then I end up having to try and respond to several points at once, which I then get lazy and just blur everything together, which makes it even less coherent. But then I stop caring because its just a message board argument and I know at minimum I wont say anything to bury myself. Not to mention the game was going on and I was just hoping that Ozzie didnt some how find a way to snatch defeat from victory again.

 

As for Santos compared to Soria. Im not saying Santos should never go 4,5 or 6 outs, Im just saying today, his first save at yankee stadium while the Sox are really struggling, is not the day I give him a difficult save. Maybe after he has 5-10 saves I start to give him a longer rope, but today, I give him every chance to succeed.

 

Yup, your points are well taken.

[Soxbadger]

After 5 years of not criticizing Ozzie and basically letting things fly because he won the World Series, even I have come to the point where Im just tired.

 

Just one day a season I want to feel that we are going to out manage the other team.

[greg775]

After 5 years of not criticizing Ozzie and basically letting things fly because he won the World Series, even I have come to the point where Im just tired.

 

Just one day a season I want to feel that we are going to out manage the other team.

 

Badger you sound like a guy who had a bad day. Go grab a Schlitz in honor of Chicago/Wisconsin natives.

[Andrew]

No need to apologize Badger. It's interesting to watch other people get in 'fights' on here after all the fights I got in last year.

I can totally see your point.

Normally I might agree. It's just that I've wanted Santos to be the 'closer' for a while now and I know Soria with the Royals used to have four and five out saves a lot, so I was glad to see Ozz go to Santos, even tho as you say, Crain could have been used in the 8th.

Soria, though, has had several one and a half inning saves for the inept Royals.

 

Use Crain the 8th for what? Sale was rolling. If you want to argue that eighth, how about doing NOTHING and leaving him in?

 

Andruw Jones sucks. WE know this, especially from the bench.

 

It's a 4 f***ing game series. And R vs L is about as far as Ozzie takes an analysis. I can't believe people want more and different people in this game when less was clearly better (and probably, unnecessary).

[Soxbadger]

With the Sox its not a bad day, its just another bad start to a season that I had much higher hopes for. I look at the talent, and I wonder whats wrong, something just isnt right.

 

Ive been nervous all season about what the ramifications will be if the Sox dont do well this year and draw fans. I had big hopes for this team, and you sometimes just need to change, maybe just for changes sake.

 

I just really want them to win this year, and at first I wasnt worried, but after the last week or so, even I cant just blindly believe.

 

(edit)

 

Thats not what people are saying.

 

They are saying that if Ozzie did not like the Sale- Jones match up (whether you agree or disagree, Ozzie didnt like it), the next logical move would be Crain, if Santos is your closer. It has nothing to do wth the original decision to take out Sale, its what Ozzie did after that.

 

 

Edited April 26, 2011 by Soxbadger

[Andrew]

With the Sox its not a bad day, its just another bad start to a season that I had much higher hopes for. I look at the talent, and I wonder whats wrong, something just isnt right.

 

Ive been nervous all season about what the ramifications will be if the Sox dont do well this year and draw fans. I had big hopes for this team, and you sometimes just need to change, maybe just for changes sake.

 

I just really want them to win this year, and at first I wasnt worried, but after the last week or so, even I cant just blindly believe.

 

(edit)

 

Thats not what people are saying.

 

They are saying that if Ozzie did not like the Sale- Jones match up (whether you agree or disagree, Ozzie didnt like it), the next logical move would be Crain, if Santos is your closer. It has nothing to do wth the original decision to take out Sale, its what Ozzie did after that.

 

So, you're happy to take Sale's first 2 outs in the 8th, your angry (now) that Crain wasn't called for the last out, and then Santos, of course, for the save we finally...FINALLY get in the 9th.

 

And why? Because Santos should ONLY be asked to work in the 9th "IF" he's our closer.

 

I think Ozzie bunts too much and plays L-R matchups when it's unnecessary.... ALOT. I think these things are wasted outs and baserunners and it pisses me off.

 

But you are arguing about expending MORE players than was necessary and for no reason. That's... that's just crazy. I don't even understand why you would ...well, ask for anything in that game to be different, really.

 

[iamshack]

I have no problem with blow back.

 

I just get annoyed when my point isnt coming across clearly and then I end up having to try and respond to several points at once, which I then get lazy and just blur everything together, which makes it even less coherent. But then I stop caring because its just a message board argument and I know at minimum I wont say anything to bury myself. Not to mention the game was going on and I was just hoping that Ozzie didnt some how find a way to snatch defeat from victory again.

 

As for Santos compared to Soria. Im not saying Santos should never go 4,5 or 6 outs, Im just saying today, his first save at yankee stadium while the Sox are really struggling, is not the day I give him a difficult save. Maybe after he has 5-10 saves I start to give him a longer rope, but today, I give him every chance to succeed.

But you do, because you start flipping out and getting all upset that people aren't agreeing with you.

 

And it might help if you replied to individual posts, so we know who the heck you mean to respond to.

[Soxbadger]

Im saying that the option of keeping in Sale wasnt part of the argument.

 

If Sale stays in the game and gets the out, we hope that Santos gets the 9th to save.

 

But the series of moves that is being discussed is what do you do if you decide that Sale shouldnt face Jones. (Im not saying either move is right, Im on the fence on this one, I would have stuck with Sale but can understand the rationale.)

 

Now if we are going to take Sale out, the question is Crain v. Santos. My argument is that if you are 100% sure that Santos is closing in the 9th, you bring in Crain to get 1 batter in the 8th. Having Santos pitch is a far riskier move.

 

It worked, but I think its an added risk (once the decision to pull Sale was made).

 

This entire hypothetical argument is based on Sale being removed. Those are just the parameters of the argument in this case.

[Soxbadger]

Ha flip out? The worst I said was that some ones argument was absurdly idiotic (or something to that effect), and that was mainly just frustration.

 

And its impossible to try and address everyone when posts are coming that quickly, so I get lazy.

 

Im not getting paid for this, so Ill do what I want haha

[iamshack]

Ha flip out? The worst I said was that some ones argument was absurdly idiotic (or something to that effect), and that was mainly just frustration.

 

And its impossible to try and address everyone when posts are coming that quickly, so I get lazy.

 

Im not getting paid for this, so Ill do what I want haha

If you say so, Badge