Education bubble?

[Balta1701]

Does the poverty angle work in a study which is based on entertainment usage from TV, premium cable, smartphones, etc?

Absolutely. Those things are cheap these days, no matter how much you want to lecture people on the fact that they're not. That's what you do with your kids when you have to work 2 jobs to afford the rent, you can't spend the time with them yourself.

[iamshack]

I don't dispute the fact that kids, even lower middle class and borderline poverty kids, have access to technology (sometimes the access to this technology is part of the problem itself) which enables them to consume information more readily. But do we really think these children are consuming valuable information? Or is it more like mindless information?

 

When I made the statement regarding a lack of work ethic and video games and the like, I certainly was not discounting the benefits of having access to superior technology. Instead, I was looking more at the lifestyle/work ethic it engenders.

 

However, this is an interesting article about China's superior test scores versus their complete lack of leadership in terms of innovation in the global marketplace.

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Absolutely. Those things are cheap these days, no matter how much you want to lecture people on the fact that they're not. That's what you do with your kids when you have to work 2 jobs to afford the rent, you can't spend the time with them yourself.

 

So, 3-400 dollar video game consoles, 60 bucks a game, 100+ a month smartphone (plus the cost of the phone) and 20-50+ in premium cable a month, extra tv's for the kids, etc? For people that are in poverty? That's cheap? Really?

[Balta1701]

So, 3-400 dollar video game consoles, 60 bucks a game, 100+ a month smartphone (plus the cost of the phone) and 20-50+ in premium cable a month, extra tv's for the kids, etc? For people that are in poverty? That's cheap? Really?

Sigh. This crap again?

[iamshack]

So, 3-400 dollar video game consoles, 60 bucks a game, 100+ a month smartphone (plus the cost of the phone) and 20-50+ in premium cable a month, extra tv's for the kids, etc? For people that are in poverty? That's cheap? Really?

It's not cheap at all. And the fact that these people are making the decision to buy these goods given their financial situation is symptomatic of the problem in the first place.

[Balta1701]

Hmph, according to that study, the group with the heaviest media consumption per day is the Asian population.

[iamshack]

Hmph, according to that study, the group with the heaviest media consumption per day is the Asian population.

So ergo media consumption equals best test scores?

 

Don't you think that is just a little bit of a correlative connection rather than causal one?

[Balta1701]

There's also a complete lack of explanation for what White kids do with the 4 hours a day less of media that they consume compared to all the other minorities. That's the real missing element.

[Balta1701]

So ergo media consumption equals best test scores?

 

Don't you think that is just a little bit of a correlative connection rather than causal one?

But wasn't the whole point of bringing that study up to argue that the poor performance of minority children was directly caused by the fact that they're spending all their time watching TV or using cell phones/computers?

[iamshack]

There's also a complete lack of explanation for what White kids do with the 4 hours a day less of media that they consume compared to all the other minorities. That's the real missing element.

I'll tell you what. White kids are playing club sports that cost money and require a parent without a job to transport them there. White kids are taking music lessons. White kids are learning foreign languages. White kids are doing all sorts of things that cost money.

[Balta1701]

I'll tell you what. White kids are playing club sports that cost money and require a parent without a job to transport them there. White kids are taking music lessons. White kids are learning foreign languages. White kids are doing all sorts of things that cost money.

I'd agree with you but then I'd get called out for having brought poverty and the dismantling of the family structure back into it.

[Jenksismyhero]

Sigh. This crap again?

 

lol, yes this "crap." Seriously, what world do you live in where this stuff is cheap? If you're poor, can you really afford spending an extra 20 bucks a month for that HBO subcription? Can you really afford that 60 dollar video game? Or a smartphone? Come on...

[Balta1701]

lol, yes this "crap." Seriously, what world do you live in where this stuff is cheap? If you're poor, can you really afford spending an extra 20 bucks a month for that HBO subcription? Can you really afford that 60 dollar video game? Or a smartphone? Come on...

Compared to the time it would take to actively do the stuff Shack was describing...yes.

[Jenksismyhero]

But wasn't the whole point of bringing that study up to argue that the poor performance of minority children was directly caused by the fact that they're spending all their time watching TV or using cell phones/computers?

 

I brought it up to show that kids in general these days spend a LOT of time on entertainment in a day, which might be a reason why our education system isn't as good as it could be.

[Jenksismyhero]

Compared to the time it would take to actively do the stuff Shack was describing...yes.

 

Time? Or money?

 

And when I was in school these various programs cost like 50 bucks for the year. Even in today's prices that's less than the ongoing commitment cost of the "cheap" entertainment we're talking about.

 

Kids don't have to go to $1000/hr private music lessons to do something more productive with their time.

[Balta1701]

Time? Or money?

 

And when I was in school these various programs cost like 50 bucks for the year. Even in today's prices that's less than the ongoing commitment cost of the "cheap" entertainment we're talking about.

 

Kids don't have to go to $1000/hr private music lessons to do something more productive with their time.

Well first, in poorly performing school districts a most of those programs you're thinking of don't exist for budgetary reasons. Am I the only one who remembers the "Midnight basketball" issue in the Presidential race in the 90s?

 

And secondly, yes, you're right there are other options other than private music lessons...but if a parent isn't available to make those other options happen, then turning on the TV is what's left.

[bigruss]

I'll tell you what.

 

 

[bmags]

This gap really isn't anything new. Your generation sucked too, let's just remember that. Kids are stupid and will drink chocolate milk all day if left alone. They are in school for quite a bit of time, however. So perhaps we should focus the discussion on how we run those schools and less on how terrible it is that kids are soft these days b/c of video games.

[Texsox]

My students come from a wide range of economic conditions and shack is somewhat correct. There are a lot of lazy kids out there who would have been removed from most schools in other countries. Here we not only attempt, but demand that every kid be in school until 16. It really frustrates me that kids around the world are fighting for a chance to go to school, we force them to go, feed them two meals a day, and even provide school supplies, and kids put in less than zero effort. Not only are they not doing anything, but they are distracting the students around them.

 

They can't bring a pencil or notebook but have $2 for a no uniform fundraiser and nice cell phones. To me it shows how much they value school. Give me a room full of recent immigrants, my experience tells me most will actually care and be thankful that they are getting an education. They don't think of it as a birthright.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

My students come from a wide range of economic conditions and shack is somewhat correct. There are a lot of lazy kids out there who would have been removed from most schools in other countries. Here we not only attempt, but demand that every kid be in school until 16. It really frustrates me that kids around the world are fighting for a chance to go to school, we force them to go, feed them two meals a day, and even provide school supplies, and kids put in less than zero effort. Not only are they not doing anything, but they are distracting the students around them.

 

They can't bring a pencil or notebook but have $2 for a no uniform fundraiser and nice cell phones. To me it shows how much they value school. Give me a room full of recent immigrants, my experience tells me most will actually care and be thankful that they are getting an education. They don't think of it as a birthright.

 

I saw a scary amount of this even in seniors. The wife deals with it a ton in freshmen who haven't been "allowed" to drop out yet.

 

I really wonder if their attitude towards education would change if they faced a test at some point which told them they weren't allowed to attend school anymore like in some other industrialized countries?

[bigruss]

At my high school, which was in Ann Arbor which is really diverse but for the most part pretty well off, I saw the same problem no matter the economic status of the family.

 

Many rich white kids knew that they could live off of daddy's connections or money, or didn't realize the effort behind their parent's wealth and their parents never showed them.

 

Many poor minorities were more concerned about social behavior and status than school.

 

Everyone at this school had a chance to do something great with their lives, it is one of the best public schools in Michigan, yet too many kids didn't take advantage of being there. We had about 180 students attend UMich from my class (about 20%), but we had even more students f*** up their opportunity and not go to school or ended up going to the local community college (many times not for financial reasons).

[iamshack]

This gap really isn't anything new. Your generation sucked too, let's just remember that. Kids are stupid and will drink chocolate milk all day if left alone. They are in school for quite a bit of time, however. So perhaps we should focus the discussion on how we run those schools and less on how terrible it is that kids are soft these days b/c of video games.

I think I mentioned "my generation included" in my initial post.

 

Honestly, read what I typed and think about it for a second instead of immediately just lashing out about how ignorant it is.

 

Our kids are in school for quite a bit of time? Public high school kids get out at like noon a lot of the time now, because they have fulfilled their credits or whatever. What is that about? Many inner city children rarely even attend school these days.

 

This seems to be symptomatic of the way children are raised and allowed to behave at home, and then much of this culture has been brought into the public schools and the structure has actually been changed because of it.

 

What needs to happen is children need to be in school more. Longer days. More days a year. More content. Harder content. More focus.

Edited June 8, 2011 by iamshack

[Iwritecode]

Or maybe it has something to do with the fact that the last few generations of American children (mine included), have had a soft, easy lifestyle for the most part due to a higher standard of living than the rest of the world and has failed to develop a work ethic.

 

Honestly I agree with you because I see it in my own kids as well. I'm sure part of the blame falls on my wife and myself since we probably spoil them more than we should.

 

They have enough video games, computers, TVs and toys for an entire classroom of kids yet they are always "bored" or want something new. When we suggest that they do some housework to maybe earn some of the things they want they start whining and complaining.

 

When it comes to homework they complain that it's stupid and they'll never use any of it after they get out of school. (It's hard to argue against this since I've never used and since forgotten probably 50% of what I learned in high school.)

 

They want to grow up and have the fabulous lifestyle with lots of money and luxuries without going through the hard work that it takes to get it. I'm not saying all kids are like that but I can see it with mine.

 

To be fair my two oldest do a lot of work around the house even though they complain about it. Another year or so they'll be able to get real jobs and start to learn what real life is all about.

 

[bmags]

I think I mentioned "my generation included" in my initial post.

 

Honestly, read what I typed and think about it for a second instead of immediately just lashing out about how ignorant it is.

 

Our kids are in school for quite a bit of time? Public high school kids get out at like noon a lot of the time now, because they have fulfilled their credits or whatever. What is that about? Many inner city children rarely even attend school these days.

 

This seems to be symptomatic of the way children are raised and allowed to behave at home, and then much of this culture has been brought into the public schools and the structure has actually been changed because of it.

 

What needs to happen is children need to be in school more. Longer days. More days a year. More content. Harder content. More focus.

 

They are in school for quite a bit of time, compared to everything else. So we should make sure that time is spent with the best teaching methods and culture we have. Longer school time would be great, and many charter schools are trying that, but that also costs money and money needs to be raise thru taxes and taxes and gov't are taking away our guns and so that won't ever happen.

 

This study seems to be a step in the right direction, though I guess we should have stopped them before they did, handed them a Malcolm Gladwell book and said the best way to fix this is to send the kids to the farms to learn a work ethic. It worked for Mao.

 

 

[Texsox]

There are no right or wrong answers or we would have made those decisions a long time ago. Yes, are kids have a lot of computers, cell phones, etc. but that is the world we are preparing them for.