Education bubble?

[iamshack]

They are in school for quite a bit of time, compared to everything else. So we should make sure that time is spent with the best teaching methods and culture we have. Longer school time would be great, and many charter schools are trying that, but that also costs money and money needs to be raise thru taxes and taxes and gov't are taking away our guns and so that won't ever happen.

 

This study seems to be a step in the right direction, though I guess we should have stopped them before they did, handed them a Malcolm Gladwell book and said the best way to fix this is to send the kids to the farms to learn a work ethic. It worked for Mao.

You can mock all you want...but simply because you can identify the source of the theory it is therefore nonsensical? I certainly didn't claim it was my theory. But of course you are 24 now....and we all know everything in life has been learned by age 24.

[bmags]

Because there are lots of ways to improve education, this was one of them, if this teaching method improves it, we should move forward with it. I don't know how to affect the kids parenting, but we can affect their schooling.

[Texsox]

We could also recognize that teaching doesn't trump parenting. And that some things are parent's responsibility. Instead, because teaching is a paid position and aprenting is not, we place all the expectations on education.

[bmags]

We could also recognize that teaching doesn't trump parenting. And that some things are parent's responsibility. Instead, because teaching is a paid position and aprenting is not, we place all the expectations on education.

 

How should we regulate parenting tex? I'm open to it.

 

BUt I have a problem with being so dismissive of kids who aren't doing well at 12-16 years old at school. Even if they are doing it to themself at that age, I'm not sure how much weight we should put on that, because at that point the child is not going to achieve anything in life. We've seen the charts of unemployment for those without high school employment.

[bigruss]

I think I mentioned "my generation included" in my initial post.

 

Honestly, read what I typed and think about it for a second instead of immediately just lashing out about how ignorant it is.

 

Our kids are in school for quite a bit of time? Public high school kids get out at like noon a lot of the time now, because they have fulfilled their credits or whatever. What is that about? Many inner city children rarely even attend school these days.

 

This seems to be symptomatic of the way children are raised and allowed to behave at home, and then much of this culture has been brought into the public schools and the structure has actually been changed because of it.

 

What needs to happen is children need to be in school more. Longer days. More days a year. More content. Harder content. More focus.

Im going to disagree on this, kids need to still ahve the ability to learn outside of the classroom. In an era where communication is key to getting things done, learning, etc kids need to have the experience of interacting outside of the classroom.

[iamshack]

How should we regulate parenting tex? I'm open to it.

 

BUt I have a problem with being so dismissive of kids who aren't doing well at 12-16 years old at school. Even if they are doing it to themself at that age, I'm not sure how much weight we should put on that, because at that point the child is not going to achieve anything in life. We've seen the charts of unemployment for those without high school employment.

But at 12-16, are they not at crucial ages for learning concepts necessary for high school and college?

[iamshack]

Im going to disagree on this, kids need to still ahve the ability to learn outside of the classroom. In an era where communication is key to getting things done, learning, etc kids need to have the experience of interacting outside of the classroom.

Well I am not going to dispute that...but there have been pilot programs where kids who had formerly struggled in school went for longer hours and had more structure, more content, more expected from them actually thrived in that experience.

 

It's certainly not the proof that this will work for everyone, but it's something.

[bigruss]

Well I am not going to dispute that...but there have been pilot programs where kids who had formerly struggled in school went for longer hours and had more structure, more content, more expected from them actually thrived in that experience.

 

It's certainly not the proof that this will work for everyone, but it's something.

And maybe afterschool programs like that for struggling kids may be beneficial, but to make every student go through that seems expensive and actually hurtful. Having programs that force some of these kids to get off the streets and back in the classroom or onto the court/field/etc would be a good idea, imo. The problem is finding the funding to do such a thing, but still, that would be a heck of a lot easier than fighting with teacher unions to increase the number of hours a teacher has to work each week.

[Texsox]

How should we regulate parenting tex? I'm open to it.

 

BUt I have a problem with being so dismissive of kids who aren't doing well at 12-16 years old at school. Even if they are doing it to themself at that age, I'm not sure how much weight we should put on that, because at that point the child is not going to achieve anything in life. We've seen the charts of unemployment for those without high school employment.

 

Not regulate, but we keep pushing schools to be parents and teach kids everything from sex to filling out an employment application.

[iamshack]

And maybe afterschool programs like that for struggling kids may be beneficial, but to make every student go through that seems expensive and actually hurtful. Having programs that force some of these kids to get off the streets and back in the classroom or onto the court/field/etc would be a good idea, imo. The problem is finding the funding to do such a thing, but still, that would be a heck of a lot easier than fighting with teacher unions to increase the number of hours a teacher has to work each week.

We are in the top 3 nations in spending, per student, amongst industrialized nations.

 

The money is already there. It just needs to be spent more effectively.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

We are in the top 3 nations in spending, per student, amongst industrialized nations.

 

The money is already there. It just needs to be spent more effectively.

 

And I know with education reform in Indiana we spend A LOT more in poor communities per student than rich. Nearly 50% more at the extremes.

[Texsox]

And maybe afterschool programs like that for struggling kids may be beneficial, but to make every student go through that seems expensive and actually hurtful. Having programs that force some of these kids to get off the streets and back in the classroom or onto the court/field/etc would be a good idea, imo. The problem is finding the funding to do such a thing, but still, that would be a heck of a lot easier than fighting with teacher unions to increase the number of hours a teacher has to work each week.

 

There isn't a teacher in my school that doesn't tutor after school. Care to guess how many kids we get to stay for tutoring? We even offer a tutoring bus ride to the front door of their home. We have kids failing, whose parents will sign a statement that they are refusing tutoring and if their child fails he will be retained. Then, of course when the kid fails, they blame th school for not teaching the kid. We pull kids out of their electives on our planning periods and conference times for tutoring and the parents (not all) come and complain that we took their child out of PE or music or whatever. There may be some schools where that is the problem, but not any in my experience. Teachers want to teach.

[iamshack]

There isn't a teacher in my school that doesn't tutor after school. Care to guess how many kids we get to stay for tutoring? We even offer a tutoring bus ride to the front door of their home. We have kids failing, whose parents will sign a statement that they are refusing tutoring and if their child fails he will be retained. Then, of course when the kid fails, they blame th school for not teaching the kid. We pull kids out of their electives on our planning periods and conference times for tutoring and the parents (not all) come and complain that we took their child out of PE or music or whatever. There may be some schools where that is the problem, but not any in my experience. Teachers want to teach.

So would you agree then that the cultural changes that have occurred in the last few generations are now affecting the structure of our school systems?

[Texsox]

And I know with education reform in Indiana we spend A LOT more in poor communities per student than rich. Nearly 50% more at the extremes.

 

How do they do that? With property taxes being the #1 way states pay for education, it is hard to take local property tax money and move it to poorer communities. 50% is just an amazing number. I'd like to see Texas just come close to spending the same for every kid.

[bigruss]

There isn't a teacher in my school that doesn't tutor after school. Care to guess how many kids we get to stay for tutoring? We even offer a tutoring bus ride to the front door of their home. We have kids failing, whose parents will sign a statement that they are refusing tutoring and if their child fails he will be retained. Then, of course when the kid fails, they blame th school for not teaching the kid. We pull kids out of their electives on our planning periods and conference times for tutoring and the parents (not all) come and complain that we took their child out of PE or music or whatever. There may be some schools where that is the problem, but not any in my experience. Teachers want to teach.

Is that in their contract already? Im sure teachers want to teach, and I hope/appreciate that they do want to, but many teacher unions would fight (understandably) if their employees had to teach longer than signed upon.

 

From what you've told me at your school, there isn't much else that can be done besides forcing the student to stay after hours, which doesn't sound viable to me.

[bmags]

But at 12-16, are they not at crucial ages for learning concepts necessary for high school and college?

 

they are, that's why I don't like the "kick them out if they don't want to be there."

[southsider2k5]

How do they do that? With property taxes being the #1 way states pay for education, it is hard to take local property tax money and move it to poorer communities. 50% is just an amazing number. I'd like to see Texas just come close to spending the same for every kid.

 

All of the property tax money now gets sent to the state. The state the redistributes based on a per student dollar amount based on the make up of each school system. Systems with higher poverty, and higher special education numbers get a higher amount. Schools with lower populations get less. Last I knew schools in Gary were getting over $10k/yr/kid, while somewhere like Valpo was right about $7k/yr/kid

[southsider2k5]

Is that in their contract already? Im sure teachers want to teach, and I hope/appreciate that they do want to, but many teacher unions would fight (understandably) if their employees had to teach longer than signed upon.

 

From what you've told me at your school, there isn't much else that can be done besides forcing the student to stay after hours, which doesn't sound viable to me.

 

Its not in any contract I know of. Teachers do it voluntarily.

[Jenksismyhero]

they are, that's why I don't like the "kick them out if they don't want to be there."

 

So what's your solution in Tex' scenario? Where everything is already in place to give the kid a chance at an education, even more so than the average student. But at the end of the day the student doesn't want to be there. Throwing more money into the school system isn't gonna change that. So what's your solution? And how can you honestly think that other distractions don't play a part in this?

[iamshack]

All of the property tax money now gets sent to the state. The state the redistributes based on a per student dollar amount based on the make up of each school system. Systems with higher poverty, and higher special education numbers get a higher amount. Schools with lower populations get less. Last I knew schools in Gary were getting over $10k/yr/kid, while somewhere like Valpo was right about $7k/yr/kid

So are the property taxes now all equal? Or are their areas where they still have a high property tax but now their school systems are not getting equivalent funding?

 

How do people in the higher property tax areas feel about this?

[southsider2k5]

So are the property taxes now all equal? Or are their areas where they still have a high property tax but now their school systems are not getting equivalent funding?

 

How do people in the higher property tax areas feel about this?

 

I can't remember how relative property taxes are factored into it honestly. It wasn't an issue on Michigan City's end (we are fairly low property tax-wise) during the election, so I never thought to research it honestly.

 

The rich schools hate it. Absolutely hate it.

 

I'm waiting to see if it makes a difference in performance or not.

[Texsox]

Is that in their contract already? Im sure teachers want to teach, and I hope/appreciate that they do want to, but many teacher unions would fight (understandably) if their employees had to teach longer than signed upon.

 

From what you've told me at your school, there isn't much else that can be done besides forcing the student to stay after hours, which doesn't sound viable to me.

 

Nope, we just do it because it is the right thing to do. Think when you were in school, how many teachers were still in the building working with students when the bell rang? It's always been that way. Staying after school for extra help is just a fact of life in schools.

[Texsox]

I can't remember how relative property taxes are factored into it honestly. It wasn't an issue on Michigan City's end (we are fairly low property tax-wise) during the election, so I never thought to research it honestly.

 

The rich schools hate it. Absolutely hate it.

 

I'm waiting to see if it makes a difference in performance or not.

 

We have a "Robin Hood" law that does that in a very small way. Not nearly enough to even things up.

[iamshack]

I can't remember how relative property taxes are factored into it honestly. It wasn't an issue on Michigan City's end (we are fairly low property tax-wise) during the election, so I never thought to research it honestly.

 

The rich schools hate it. Absolutely hate it.

I'm waiting to see if it makes a difference in performance or not.

Understandably. There is a reason many of those people bought homes in those wealthier areas.

[Texsox]

And to be fair to parents, most of mine did not go to college, I'll bet less than half graduated from HS. So they have a harder time knowing what to do to help their own kids. But last year I had 105 students in four classes. In my Pre-Ap class, I met 100% of the parents at least once and probably 80% three or more times. In my lowest performing class, only 4 of 26 parents showed up for Open House or Meet the Teacher night. My situation wasn't unique. I wasn't certain which comes first, not interested in talking with the teacher or too many negative calls about their kid. I tried really hard to make every conversation with a parent positive so they would return my phone calls.