Osama Bin Laden Dead

[southsider2k5]

I agree (you're sounding kind of like a lefty though, lol, that's one of the things we've been saying)

 

I guess it's like... do you want to be that guy who acts like Dwyane Wade, who goes to dunk while the guy guarding him is letting him dribble out the clock because the game is won?

 

 

Its not an absolute, its just if it could cause 1 more terrorist, who may kill more people, why do it?

 

(edit)

 

That is the rationale argument, the moral argument is clearly against celebrating. All you have to do is look at the quote I posted about what god said to the hebrews after they left Egypt.

 

You dont cheer for the suffering of others. Thats been a judeo christian rule since almost 6000 years ago.

 

That is pretty much where I was going. Yeah we got our guy, and it is one less thing we have to worry about. Hopefully it gives the people truly afflicted by 9/11, and not just the frat boys who want to party and drink, a sense of closure and healing. Its more about what's right, than stooping down to their level.

[GoSox05]

This may be morbid, but curious to know what kind of gun they used to kill Osama Bin Laden.

[southsider2k5]

He (is Osama) changed the world forever. In comparison after World War II things went back to normal.

 

Wait, the cold war was "normal"?

[southsider2k5]

I'd be more interested to know who opposed the actions in there.

[ptatc]

This may be morbid, but curious to know what kind of gun they used to kill Osama Bin Laden.

Navy Seal standard weapons are the M4 Carbine and the HK MP4. My guess is that in the close quarters they were expecting it was the HK.

[Jenksismyhero]

Jenks, again we will disagree on world. Bin Laden wasn't an issue for most of the world. Narco-terrorism is way more of an issue in South America and Mexico. Bin Laden isn't the biggest problem for Israel. What terrorism did Obama cause in Norway, Sweden, Greenland, Australia? Did Bin Laden commit crimes against Japan, Korea, China, Vietnam? Bin Laden wanted death to Americans. Most of the rest of the world could give a f*** about us. Again, where were the people waving Greek flags in Greece? Where were the celebrations in Turkey? Yemen? Honduras?

 

He was an American problem and we took him out. I believe the celebrations will have a bigger impact here in the US, both positive and negative, than you do. I think they will have a much smaller impact around the rest of the world than you do.

 

 

My response would be that I bet if you go up to any random person in the world and say Osama Bin Laden, they'd know who he is. If you gave them the name of the highest drug lord in Mexico, they wouldn't have a clue who you were talking about.

 

And I was actually going to post a reply last night using China as an example. How many hundreds of millions did they spend on security for the Olympics? Who caused that? Who started that entire idea that we have to be extremely secure in just about every country in the world when we travel or hold global events? He wasn't the first islamic terrorist, clearly, but he became the most well known the last decade.

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Wait, the cold war was "normal"?

 

My point in comparing Hitler/WW2 with today was that we will never go back to a post 9/11 world. We will never get rid of homeland security, the TSA, the screenings, etc. Even the cold war, we eventually won and people stopped buying bomb shelters because it we were at "war" with a nation. This isn't a nation. They're random groups of people.

 

I'm not even suggesting that WW2 was somehow less impactful, I'm saying that OBL's actions led to a similarly life-altering change in our society. So to say he's just a nobody small b**** that failed is ridiculous and ignores reality.

[Steve9347]

If you cant see how this will be used by,a terrorist, than there is nothing else to say.

 

In my recruitment video, Id show a picture of dead civilians and then US people cheering and shouting.

 

Propaganda isnt about the truth, its about what I can make the truth

 

Regardless it isnt about the terrorists, its about us. I thought we were better, I thought we came from a nation that feels the suffering of all of those who suffer.

 

Maybe we are no better. But that doesnt mean I cant strive to be better.

Then our reactions to killing Osama bin Laden make no difference. You can just pick any event, hell, pick a Presidential rally and then show the dead civilians. Your point is completely off.

[Texsox]

The Olympic security went up substantially after the Munich Olympics. In Mexico and South America, mention the Gulf or Zeta Cartels and people will tell you a lot. The IRA, PLO all have caused security to tighten. You can't park next to most Federal buildings today, the reason? Timothy McVeigh.

Could you name the terrorists that captured the school in Russia with hundreds killed? I bet they can in Russia.

 

I'm not discounting the terror that Al-Qaeda has inflicted on parts of the world, but there are just so many countries that are not involved, not targeted, just do not care. Of terrorist attacks that have killed more than say 100 people, there are only a few countries that are involved. bin Laden. former US ally, announced war on Americans, not Christians, not Jews, Americans. We felt his terror more than any other country. I'd say in the Arab world there is a sense of relief not that he was brought to justice, but that America will not be coming to their country to look for him.

 

You are right his organization is felt around the world, but it was felt ten times more here.

 

 

[Steve9347]

Guys, you're all monsters, how can you celebrate the death of even on man, even if he was a monster?!?!?

 

Guys, you're a bunch of crazy liberal idiots, how can you not celebrate the death of this monster?!!?!?

I love this post so much.

 

I hate where this thread has gone. We should really all be happy. Let people celebrate how they want (that's the big issue here? really?). This was a great victory for the morale of the United States and much of the world.

 

Let's just sit back and enjoy it a bit!

[southsider2k5]

My point in comparing Hitler/WW2 with today was that we will never go back to a post 9/11 world. We will never get rid of homeland security, the TSA, the screenings, etc. Even the cold war, we eventually won and people stopped buying bomb shelters because it we were at "war" with a nation. This isn't a nation. They're random groups of people.

 

I'm not even suggesting that WW2 was somehow less impactful, I'm saying that OBL's actions led to a similarly life-altering change in our society. So to say he's just a nobody small b**** that failed is ridiculous and ignores reality.

 

tell that to the countries we fought wars in because of the results of WWII. Tell that to the countries that fell under the iron curtian, and still suffer from its effects to this day.

[Cknolls]

Wow, Hillary looks like she's going to vomit.

 

 

Probably thinking how she will spin Pakistani cooperation on the mission....

[LittleHurt05]

Off the main discussion, but I still find it crazy how our news info cycle has changed so much with technology. I found out all about the death via Twitter, while my wife found out on Facebook, both viewing on our cell phones.

[RockRaines]

Navy Seal standard weapons are the M4 Carbine and the HK MP4. My guess is that in the close quarters they were expecting it was the HK.

Those guys have been around for awhile (ST6) and may have even picked up other arms in their travels. It could have been anything. I was hoping for a guy dual wielding scorpions.

[bmags]

tell that to the countries we fought wars in because of the results of WWII. Tell that to the countries that fell under the iron curtian, and still suffer from its effects to this day.

 

And tell that to the arms contractors who can bet that the orders for more and more weapons ain't ever gonna go down.

[southsider2k5]

http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2011...ladensfrontyard

 

Nobody reports seeing other visitors, official-looking or otherwise, coming to number 25. A nearby hospital could perhaps have been useful for a man, such as Mr bin Laden, who suffered from kidney disease. Pakistan's main military academy—the country’s Sandhurst or West Point—is only short distance away on foot. Local residents say that police regularly swept the area, roughly once a week, checking residents' IDs and sometimes looking inside homes. It is hard to believe that this house could have escaped scrutiny for long. Most embarrassing for Pakistan's most powerful man, General Ashfaq Kayani, the chief of staff, is that he was just across the field from number 25 just last week, boasting at the military academy that Pakistan had broken the back of terrorism. At the time Mr bin Laden was within shouting distance of the general. That looks increasingly difficult to explain.

[southsider2k5]

Read this without laughing...

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/pak...mybF_story.html

 

Pakistan did its part

Asif Ali Zardari, Published: May 2

 

Pakistan, perhaps the world’s greatest victim of terrorism, joins the other targets of al-Qaeda — the people of the United States, Britain, Spain, Indonesia, Afghanistan, Turkey, Yemen, Kenya, Tanzania, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Algeria — in our satisfaction that the source of the greatest evil of the new millennium has been silenced, and his victims given justice. He was not anywhere we had anticipated he would be, but now he is gone.

 

Although the events of Sunday were not a joint operation, a decade of cooperation and partnership between the United States and Pakistan led up to the elimination of Osama bin Laden as a continuing threat to the civilized world. And we in Pakistan take some satisfaction that our early assistance in identifying an al-Qaeda courier ultimately led to this day.

 

Let us be frank. Pakistan has paid an enormous price for its stand against terrorism. More of our soldiers have died than all of NATO’s casualties combined. Two thousand police officers, as many as 30,000 innocent civilians and a generation of social progress for our people have been lost. And for me, justice against bin Laden was not just political; it was also personal, as the terrorists murdered our greatest leader, the mother of my children. Twice he tried to assassinate my wife. In 1989 he poured $50 million into a no-confidence vote to topple her first government. She said that she was bin Laden’s worst nightmare — a democratically elected, progressive, moderate, pluralistic female leader. She was right, and she paid for it with her life.

 

Some in the U.S. press have suggested that Pakistan lacked vitality in its pursuit of terrorism, or worse yet that we were disingenuous and actually protected the terrorists we claimed to be pursuing. Such baseless speculation may make exciting cable news, but it doesn’t reflect fact. Pakistan had as much reason to despise al-Qaeda as any nation. The war on terrorism is as much Pakistan’s war as as it is America’s. And though it may have started with bin Laden, the forces of modernity and moderation remain under serious threat.

 

My government endorses the words of President Obama and appreciates the credit he gave us Sunday night for the successful operation in Khyber Pakhtunkhawa. We also applaud and endorse the words of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton that we must “press forward, bolstering our partnerships, strengthening our networks, investing in a positive vision of peace and progress, and relentlessly pursuing the murderers who target innocent people.” We have not yet won this war, but we now clearly can see the beginning of the end, and the kind of South and Central Asia that lies in our future.

 

Only hours after bin Laden’s death, the Taliban reacted by blaming the government of Pakistan and calling for retribution against its leaders, and specifically against me as the nation’s president. We will not be intimidated. Pakistan has never been and never will be the hotbed of fanaticism that is often described by the media.

 

Radical religious parties have never received more than 11 percent of the vote. Recent polls showed that 85 percent of our people are strongly opposed to al-Qaeda. In 2009, when the Taliban briefly took over the Swat Valley, it demonstrated to the people of Pakistan what our future would look like under its rule — repressive politics, religious fanaticism, bigotry and discrimination against girls and women, closing of schools and burning of books. Those few months did more to unite the people of Pakistan around our moderate vision of the future than anything else possibly could.

 

A freely elected democratic government, with the support and mandate of the people, working with democracies all over the world, is determined to build a viable, economic prosperous Pakistan that is a model to the entire Islamic world on what can be accomplished in giving hope to our people and opportunity to our children. We can become everything that al-Qaeda and the Taliban most fear — a vision of a modern Islamic future. Our people, our government, our military, our intelligence agencies are very much united. Some abroad insist that this is not the case, but they are wrong. Pakistanis are united.

 

Together, our nations have suffered and sacrificed. We have fought bravely and with passion and commitment. Ultimately we will prevail. For, in the words of my martyred wife Benazir Bhutto, “truth, justice and the forces of history are on our side.”

 

The writer is the president of Pakistan.

[LittleHurt05]

http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2011...ladensfrontyard

 

Local residents say that police regularly swept the area, roughly once a week, checking residents' IDs and sometimes looking inside homes. It is hard to believe that this house could have escaped scrutiny for long.

 

The US has reported that the house especially looked suspect like it was specifically made it to hide someone. Almost no one ever comes in & out, and they never looked in once??

[Steve9347]

[Milkman delivers]

Read this without laughing...

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/pak...mybF_story.html

 

I don't think it's quite as hilarious as you. I think the main point that is incorrect is that all of Pakistan's officials are working together, as in some high ranking officials in the military could have possibly kept bin Laden's location under wraps while the president and other officials were indeed working with the best of intentions to find him.

[Balta1701]

I don't think it's quite as hilarious as you. I think the main point that is incorrect is that all of Pakistan's officials are working together, as in some high ranking officials in the military could have possibly kept bin Laden's location under wraps while the president and other officials were indeed working with the best of intentions to find him.

It's more difficult than you think though...if the rank and file were doing regular searches of that city, then the rank and file had to be ordered not to go to that spot, not to ask questions, and not to tell anyone else. And over the years, presumably hundreds of people rotated through those cities.

[Steve9347]

This is must-watch stuff.

 

[southsider2k5]

I don't think it's quite as hilarious as you. I think the main point that is incorrect is that all of Pakistan's officials are working together, as in some high ranking officials in the military could have possibly kept bin Laden's location under wraps while the president and other officials were indeed working with the best of intentions to find him.

 

It is laughable to think that Bin Laden was there for years, right under the noses of the Pak military and they did not know it.

[RockRaines]

Pick up a Sun Times today and read pages 14 and 15.

[Balta1701]

Pick up a Sun Times today and read pages 14 and 15.

No.