Jenksismyhero Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:31 PM) What is this non-sequitor? IMO what MLK said isn't reality. It doesn't fit with human emotion. The reality is that sane people in the world understand where we're coming from. I don't see how these celebrations could possibly make us look bad, at least not anything i've seen so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:31 PM) Which could take those people "on the fence" and move them to America is evil and wants all Muslims dead point of view. And yeah, we are pretty damn good at killing people for good reasons, just ask most of the countries that have pissed us off. All because we killed the worlds #1 terrorist after 10 years and were happy about it? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:31 PM) Again, I agree if this were a different guy. But this is enemy of the world #1. It's not some nobody we're celebrating here. Agreed. But the celebrations will feed anti-American sentiments and help in their recruiting efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 3, 2011 -> 01:35 AM) All because we killed the worlds #1 terrorist after 10 years and were happy about it? Really? Yes, the extremists who want us dead, well, wanted us all dead all ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:35 PM) All because we killed the worlds #1 terrorist after 10 years and were happy about it? Really? The President of the US is the #1 terrorist in some corners of the world. If they killed him (either Bush or Obama) what would the US reaction be? Hey, he was the #1 terrorist in the Arab world, so we're cool with them celebrating? You do get that the US looking like Muslim blood thirsty terrorists is exactly what they use against us? Earlier we killed Qaddafi's grandchildren, how do you think that played out? Again, the wonderful part about America is we can celebrate like this, we have the First Amendment, but those celebrations will help terrorists recruit and receive donations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 What is this bizarre world where I'm agreeing with Tex and ss2k5 in the same thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) If you cant see how this will be used by,a terrorist, than there is nothing else to say. In my recruitment video, Id show a picture of dead civilians and then US people cheering and shouting. Propaganda isnt about the truth, its about what I can make the truth Regardless it isnt about the terrorists, its about us. I thought we were better, I thought we came from a nation that feels the suffering of all of those who suffer. Maybe we are no better. But that doesnt mean I cant strive to be better. Edited May 3, 2011 by Soxbadger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:45 PM) If you cant see how this will be used as a terrorist, than there is nothing else to say. In my recruitment video, Id show a picture of dead civilians and then US people cheering and shouting. Hey, just like we do whenever barbarous, blood-thirsty people celebrate the killing of [insert latest attack victims here]! Regardless it isnt about the terrorists, its about us. I thought we were better, I thought we came from a nation that feels the suffering of all of those who suffer. Maybe we are no better. But that doesnt mean I cant strive to be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:22 PM) I love how we're concerned about pissing off people that want to kill us. Yes, let's be really worried about pissing them off more. Seriously, if this were a regular, run of the mill terorrist killed on the battlefield, then sure, you make a good point. But this was an enemy of the world. This was an enemy of the religion he was supposedly protecting. These concerns do not apply and any sane person in the world would understand his death and the happiness it brings the American people, who suffered the most because of him. Have they showed much reaction abroad on the news? Were there impromptu celebrations in other countries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Also this: While many world leaders praised the U.S. killing of Osama bin Laden, the president of Peru went a step further on Monday, calling the development the first miracle of Pope John Paul II since he was beatified last weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:45 PM) If you cant see how this will be used as a terrorist, than there is nothing else to say. In my recruitment video, Id show a picture of dead civilians and then US people cheering and shouting. Propaganda isnt about the truth, its about what I can make the truth Regardless it isnt about the terrorists, its about us. I thought we were better, I thought we came from a nation that feels the suffering of all of those who suffer. Maybe we are no better. But that doesnt mean I cant strike to be better. This proves my point. They make s*** up anyway. We kill their brothers in jihad anyway. You think we're going to win that PR battle? What, are we going to show them how nice we are by giving them a tape of Dancing With the Stars? The solution to your guys' concern is to completely leave them alone. Oh but wait, they'll still come after us because Allah tells them too. Look, in a vaccum, I agree with you guys. But in reality this changes absolutely nothing. Their perspective of us is the exact same as it was 24 hours ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:43 PM) What is this bizarre world where I'm agreeing with Tex and ss2k5 in the same thread? And once again I want to be clear, I'm not saying celebrating is wrong, I believe it was sincere and genuine for most of the people. Different people all react differently. But the extremists sell converts that we are the extremists, that we are the blood thirsty Muslim killers on a holy war and they need to band together to protect themselves from the evil US empire. We looked like it last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:41 PM) The President of the US is the #1 terrorist in some corners of the world. If they killed him (either Bush or Obama) what would the US reaction be? Hey, he was the #1 terrorist in the Arab world, so we're cool with them celebrating? You do get that the US looking like Muslim blood thirsty terrorists is exactly what they use against us? Earlier we killed Qaddafi's grandchildren, how do you think that played out? Again, the wonderful part about America is we can celebrate like this, we have the First Amendment, but those celebrations will help terrorists recruit and receive donations. I didn't know that. Awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:45 PM) If you cant see how this will be used by,a terrorist, than there is nothing else to say. In my recruitment video, Id show a picture of dead civilians and then US people cheering and shouting. Propaganda isnt about the truth, its about what I can make the truth Regardless it isnt about the terrorists, its about us. I thought we were better, I thought we came from a nation that feels the suffering of all of those who suffer. Maybe we are no better. But that doesnt mean I cant strive to be better. I'm sure they already have those videos. So? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:48 PM) And once again I want to be clear, I'm not saying celebrating is wrong, I believe it was sincere and genuine for most of the people. Different people all react differently. But the extremists sell converts that we are the extremists, that we are the blood thirsty Muslim killers on a holy war and they need to band together to protect themselves from the evil US empire. We looked like it last night. But you realize just his death (among the deaths of any of them) is used for this propoganda anyway right? Here's an example: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/hamas-condemns-ki...-110039788.html GAZA (Reuters) - The Palestinian Islamist group Hamas on Monday condemned the killing by U.S. forces of Osama bin Laden and mourned him as an "Arab holy warrior." "We regard this as a continuation of the American policy based on oppression and the shedding of Muslim and Arab blood," Ismail Haniyeh, head of the Hamas administration in the Gaza Strip, told reporters. Though he noted doctrinal differences between bin Laden's al Qaeda and Hamas, Haniyeh said: "We condemn the assassination and the killing of an Arab holy warrior. We ask God to offer him mercy with the true believers and the martyrs." Hamas didn't need to see the "blood thirsty" celebrations to spread their recruitment message. His death alone did that. So maybe we shouldn't have killed him because of how it makes us look in the muslim world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I forgot it is impossible to wake someone who is pretending to be asleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Just because we are dealing with savages like Osama doesn't mean that we need to behave like savages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:53 PM) But you realize just his death (among the deaths of any of them) is used for this propoganda anyway right? Here's an example: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/hamas-condemns-ki...-110039788.html Hamas didn't need to see the "blood thirsty" celebrations to spread their recruitment message. His death alone did that. So maybe we shouldn't have killed him because of how it makes us look in the muslim world? Sqwert posted an article earlier where the writer basically said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:55 PM) I forgot it is impossible to wake someone who is pretending to be asleep. Agreed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:56 PM) Just because we are dealing with savages like Osama doesn't mean that we need to behave like savages. Haha, oh we're such savages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 So, what good came from the celebrations? All it may have done is piss people off, there is not one thing that the US concretely gained by going out and celebrating as if we actually won or accomplished something. I can point to a concrete example of why this could not only hurt America's perception, but also could result in more American deaths. What can you point to as a concrete example of how this will help Americans? If you and your friends want to go to a bar and get drunk, good for you. But going out and acting like that, when we know how many innocent people have died at both Osama's and the US's hands because of this nonsense, does nothing more than fuel the flames Ill celebrate when they pull the troops out of Pakistan and Afghanistan, Ill celebrate when they end the War on terror. Until then, we still have men and women out there who are risking their lives, we still have innocent civilians being killed on both sides. Its not over, and until its over, Im not celebrating, because I dont celebrate the death of anyone, I celebrate those who do great things, I wouldnt give Osama the honor of celebrating. Celebrating his death does nothing more than make him out to be more than he ever was. Just stupid person who got lucky, hes no super villain, hes nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:56 PM) Just because we are dealing with savages like Osama doesn't mean that we need to behave like savages. Fair enough. Then argue morality, civility, pride or something else. Just don't feed me this BS line that we're going to piss more people off when our existence is more than enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:59 PM) Fair enough. Then argue morality, civility, pride or something else. Just don't feed me this BS line that we're going to piss more people off when our existence is more than enough. I don't think I really have. The MLK quote is clearly a moral argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) Its not an absolute, its just if it could cause 1 more terrorist, who may kill more people, why do it? (edit) That is the rationale argument, the moral argument is clearly against celebrating. All you have to do is look at the quote I posted about what god said to the hebrews after they left Egypt. You dont cheer for the suffering of others. Thats been a judeo christian rule since almost 6000 years ago. Edited May 3, 2011 by Soxbadger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 2, 2011 -> 08:01 PM) I don't think I really have. The MLK quote is clearly a moral argument. Even as somebody that was very happy with Bin Laden dying, I admit that it's morally wrong for me to feel that way. But I openly admit I'm not perfect, and in this case had a thirst for revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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