Osama Bin Laden Dead

[Jenksismyhero]

I just do not see celebrations like in the US anywhere else in the world. For the WORLD"S #1 Terrorist to be brought to justice, you would think we'd see these crazy street celebrations in Australia, Germany, South Africa, Spain, Pakistan, Brazil, Mexico, Korea, China . . . He was justifiably the #1 face of terrorism in the US, and we should have spend the resources to take him out, but for most of the seven billion people on the planet, he was a criminal who committed a crime against America or worse, a justified freedom fighter.

 

Fine. Change "world" to the "west." Doesn't really alter my point.

[Jenksismyhero]

Hes the #1 terrorist because of the US.

 

Look at the kill totals, Bin Laden is small time. Even Saddam has way more kills than Bin Laden.

 

Who cares if the US govt ranks him 1 or a million, I care about death totals.

 

The reason he was #1, is because he actually had the audacity to take on the crown. I understand what the US did, we made an example of him. You kill one of ours, we kill ten of yours. I get this mentality more than I care to admit, but now that we have him, we need to put him in his real historical context, a lucky b****.

 

With all of his money, with all of his access this was all he could achieve.

 

Hes a failure, unless we make him out to be "THE GREATEST TERRORIST TO EVER LIVE"

 

Wow. I just...I dunno how to respond to this.

[Milkman delivers]

I've got loads more of awesome smilies I can steal! SoxTalk needs a smiley update.

 

Talk to a mod or something. That'd be great.

[Milkman delivers]

Wow. I just...I dunno how to respond to this.

 

It just makes you want to not even bother, right?

[Jenksismyhero]

It just makes you want to not even bother, right?

 

Pretty much.

[Rex Kickass]

I just wanna know who brought the beach balls to the white house last night for the spontaneous celebration. And who brought the cheerleaders? or the guy in the stars and stripes spandex bodysuit on the light post?

[Texsox]

Fine. Change "world" to the "west." Doesn't really alter my point.

 

 

I think it points to the differences in this thread. You were painting a picture of the world wanting him dead and cheering with almost no one against that position. My point was the west may be cheering, but not in the rest of the world. So in judging the good and the bad that comes from it, it is good for the west, bad for the rest of the world. Which is why some people here put more weight on the bad than you do. And, while thinking it is as good as you say, only add the weight of the west, not the whole world.

 

Again, I had no probloem with the cheering, I think it did more good than harm, but believe the harm was greater than you believe. Hating us passively and taking action are two different things. We probably pushed a few people to take action. We'll see if they are successful.

[Texsox]

I just wanna know who brought the beach balls to the white house last night for the spontaneous celebration. And who brought the cheerleaders? or the guy in the stars and stripes spandex bodysuit on the light post?

 

 

Sounds like SPLASH weekend on South Padre.

[Rex Kickass]

Sounds like SPLASH weekend on South Padre.

 

I'm just saying its time we got to the important issues of our day.

[StrangeSox]

or the guy in the stars and stripes spandex bodysuit on the light post?

seriously wtf was that?

[StrangeSox]

Talk to a mod or something. That'd be great.

 

I only make in-thread demands to moderation. They go mostly ignored.

 

[Milkman delivers]

seriously wtf was that?

 

I got a kick out of the guy on the stilts that was jumping around.

[Soxbadger]

First, you're completely ignoring the positive consequences of his death. You don't think his death - getting rid of the face of islamic terrorism - isn't going to be a positive? You keep claiming this negative consequence without addressing my point that they're using his death for propaganda anyway, so how does celebrating it going to make much of a difference? When you link me a video that shows people burning the Quran and screaming death to all muslims, then i'll agree with you. That's not a good thing. But people chanting USA because they finally caught the guy responsible for 9/11 isn't going to change anything.

 

Second, I appreciate the fact that you want to minimize the importance of Bin Laden, but that's just not reality man. It's been a decade. He's the most wanted man in the world. That's not legend, that's not a myth, that's a fact. People will remember last night like they remembered 9/11. It was a historic event whether you like it or not.

 

First, hes the face of Islamic terrorism because we make him be. Now that he is dead, there will be another face of Islamic terrorism. Killing Osama isnt going to stop the fact that there are people out there that want to kill us. The celebrating may not make a difference, I just think that it doesnt matter, so why take the risk. I guess I know that it makes me morally uneasy, so if Im morally uneasy and I cant see any definitive reason to do it, I tend to not do it.

 

Second, its up to us to create the narrative. I dont like what he did, I dont like that a single American was killed, but in a historical context, Osama is not this super villain that deserves to be in the same breathe as Hitler, Pol Pot or any one else who killed millions. There are plenty of countries where leaders kill hundreds of thousands. The only difference is that Osama killed thousands of Americans. I get it, when 9/11 happened I wanted my pound of flesh, but 10 years later, after watching the fall out of wanting that flesh, I ask myself, in the end was it all worth it.

 

When I dissassociate myself from the emotion, the answers are far more clear, I am glad he is dead, but he is nothing to put on a pedestal.

 

[Milkman delivers]

First, hes the face of Islamic terrorism because we make him be. Now that he is dead, there will be another face of Islamic terrorism. Killing Osama isnt going to stop the fact that there are people out there that want to kill us. The celebrating may not make a difference, I just think that it doesnt matter, so why take the risk. I guess I know that it makes me morally uneasy, so if Im morally uneasy and I cant see any definitive reason to do it, I tend to not do it.

 

Second, its up to us to create the narrative. I dont like what he did, I dont like that a single American was killed, but in a historical context, Osama is not this super villain that deserves to be in the same breathe as Hitler, Pol Pot or any one else who killed millions. There are plenty of countries where leaders kill hundreds of thousands. The only difference is that Osama killed thousands of Americans. I get it, when 9/11 happened I wanted my pound of flesh, but 10 years later, after watching the fall out of wanting that flesh, I ask myself, in the end was it all worth it.

 

When I dissassociate myself from the emotion, the answers are far more clear, I am glad he is dead, but he is nothing to put on a pedestal.

 

Your argument makes sense and I don't blame you for feeling the way you do, but I still think it was just fine for anybody on Earth to go out and celebrate yesterday's events.

[Soxbadger]

Ive never said it wasnt fine.

 

I just dont think it was the most prudent choice.

[Milkman delivers]

Ive never said it wasnt fine.

 

I just dont think it was the most prudent choice.

 

Well, yeah. The most prudent thing would have just been to act like it meant little to any American, but that was never going to happen. It was, in many people's opinions, a monumental achievement. We disagree in that I don't think the damage it can cause is as great as you believe.

[Jenksismyhero]

First, hes the face of Islamic terrorism because we make him be. Now that he is dead, there will be another face of Islamic terrorism. Killing Osama isnt going to stop the fact that there are people out there that want to kill us. The celebrating may not make a difference, I just think that it doesnt matter, so why take the risk. I guess I know that it makes me morally uneasy, so if Im morally uneasy and I cant see any definitive reason to do it, I tend to not do it.

 

Second, its up to us to create the narrative. I dont like what he did, I dont like that a single American was killed, but in a historical context, Osama is not this super villain that deserves to be in the same breathe as Hitler, Pol Pot or any one else who killed millions. There are plenty of countries where leaders kill hundreds of thousands. The only difference is that Osama killed thousands of Americans. I get it, when 9/11 happened I wanted my pound of flesh, but 10 years later, after watching the fall out of wanting that flesh, I ask myself, in the end was it all worth it.

 

When I dissassociate myself from the emotion, the answers are far more clear, I am glad he is dead, but he is nothing to put on a pedestal.

 

I actually don't agree with the bolded, at least not until we get hit again. But even then Bin Laden will always be remembered as the one that started it all. And it's great that you don't get anything from celebrating his death. So don't do it. But stop pissing on everyone else's parade.

 

As to your second point, he changed the world forever. FOREVER. For the entire world (and Tex, yes it's world here, given the amount of time/energy/money needed for security around the globe these days), not just the US. Hitler was a s***ty murdering tyrant, but after the war things were generally back to normal for most people (in terms of day to day living). Not so after 9/11. Think how much our lives have changed over the last decade. I dunno how you discount this fact so easily. You make this all seem so trivial, when that's just not reality.

 

And lastly, that's great that you can disassociate yourself from the emotion of this. Good for you. Not everyone else thinks that way. And I'm quite confident that history isn't going to do that either.

[Milkman delivers]

I'm about to watch the Daily Show and the Colbert Report. They should be epic tonight.

[Soxbadger]

I doubt it will cause damage. I just think we need to be more mindful of our actions. Im no better than anyone else and if I was there I probably would have got caught up in the moment.

 

I guess I want to finish Osama's legacy and that begins today, it begins when we focus on the terror that can be done by anyone to innocents, that what happened to us on 9/11 is what makes us like them. We suffer, they suffer, we should all hope that one day we all realize that no one gains by senseless violence. Osama did not gain, the US did not gain, the people Osama wanted to help did not gain. We all lost. Yesterday was justice, but I wish he wasnt dead. I wish he had been captured and was forced to live in a cell for the rest of his life.

 

I was sad to hear that we killed him, he deserved far worse. He deserved to live to see the rest of the world forget him as he rotted in a jail.

[Quin]

I'm about to watch the Daily Show and the Colbert Report. They should be epic tonight.

 

Five minutes in it already is.

[Soxbadger]

Man that is what Im talking about.

 

Hitler was a s***ty murdering tyrant, but after the war things were generally back to normal for most people

 

The US dropped the atomic bomb, thousands of people died in an instant. Most of the entire Jewish world was wiped off the face of the earth. The US and USSR entered a Cold War, the first of the wars (Korea) would result in the deaths of millions of people.

 

The reason I have to come off so damn hard, is that there are people who I really respect making 9/11 way more important than it was. I could live with it being the worst terrorist attack in history, I could live with it being an event that made us feel less safe.

 

But to say that it caused a bigger impact than World War II, is just elevating it to a level it cant be. 9/11 is more comparable to Pearl Harbor, than to the entire war.

[Quin]

Man that is what Im talking about.

 

 

 

The US dropped the atomic bomb, thousands of people died in an instant. Most of the entire Jewish world was wiped off the face of the earth. The US and USSR entered a Cold War, the first of the wars (Korea) would result in the deaths of millions of people.

 

The reason I have to come off so damn hard, is that there are people who I really respect making 9/11 way more important than it was. I could live with it being the worst terrorist attack in history, I could live with it being an event that made us feel less safe.

 

But to say that it caused a bigger impact than World War II, is just elevating it to a level it cant be. 9/11 is more comparable to Pearl Harbor, than to the entire war.

 

Wait...who said this?

[Soxbadger]

He changed the world forever. FOREVER. For the entire world (and Tex, yes it's world here, given the amount of time/energy/money needed for security around the globe these days), not just the US. Hitler was a s***ty murdering tyrant, but after the war things were generally back to normal for most people (in terms of day to day living). Not so after 9/11. Think how much our lives have changed over the last decade. I dunno how you discount this fact so easily. You make this all seem so trivial, when that's just not reality.

 

He (is Osama) changed the world forever. In comparison after World War II things went back to normal.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Soxbadger

[Quin]

Jon Stewart is going to town.

[greg775]

Haha, oh we're such savages.

 

 

So, what good came from the celebrations? All it may have done is piss people off, there is not one thing that the US concretely gained by going out and celebrating as if we actually won or accomplished something.

 

I can point to a concrete example of why this could not only hurt America's perception, but also could result in more American deaths.

 

What can you point to as a concrete example of how this will help Americans?

 

If you and your friends want to go to a bar and get drunk, good for you. But going out and acting like that, when we know how many innocent people have died at both Osama's and the US's hands because of this nonsense, does nothing more than fuel the flames

 

Ill celebrate when they pull the troops out of Pakistan and Afghanistan, Ill celebrate when they end the War on terror.

 

Until then, we still have men and women out there who are risking their lives, we still have innocent civilians being killed on both sides. Its not over, and until its over, Im not celebrating, because I dont celebrate the death of anyone, I celebrate those who do great things, I wouldnt give Osama the honor of celebrating. Celebrating his death does nothing more than make him out to be more than he ever was. Just stupid person who got lucky, hes no super villain, hes nothing.

 

 

Your argument makes sense and I don't blame you for feeling the way you do, but I still think it was just fine for anybody on Earth to go out and celebrate yesterday's events.

 

 

I know it's no competition, but I agree fully with Milkman and really really was disappointed in Badger's position until his last couple posts.

I really don't think our celebrating means jack s*** world-wide. The world HATES us anyway and will always hate us. Extremists want to kill us desperately.

How many countries have never paid us back? Isn't Sweden the only country to ever pay us back the money they owed us?

We are HATED by the world.