Osama Bin Laden Dead

[Quin]

Now Colbert is going crazy.

 

Damn, I love these two.

[StrangeSox]

Thought this perspective was worth a repost:

I was watching the gathering televised outside the White House.

 

At first I was a little disappointed by the celebration. I was thinking about the demonstrations in other countries when something happens to America.

 

Then I noticed something. There wasn't a whole lot of overt hatred being displayed. I didn't see anything being burnt. No epithets being screamed. Smiling, happy, people as far as the eye could see. If, I had to describe the emotion being displayed, it would be "Joyous Relief".

 

I also noticed that the age of most of them was fairly young. I guess that would be expected, as it was an impromptu gathering, young adults would be out at that time of night.

 

So for someone say, 18 - 19 years old, this was the end of an era that has been part of their experience for more than half of their lives. Really, it must be like someone told them the Boogeyman had been killed.

 

Now, I could be completely wrong and it still doesn't apply to everyone, but it reminds me of the reactions of the Germans when the Wall came down.

 

[StrangeSox]

I know it's no competition, but I agree fully with Milkman and really really was disappointed in Badger's position until his last couple posts.

I really don't think our celebrating means jack s*** world-wide. The world HATES us anyway and will always hate us. Extremists want to kill us desperately.

How many countries have never paid us back? Isn't Sweden the only country to ever pay us back the money they owed us?

We are HATED by the world.

 

Focusing on "OMG! What will they think of us?!" is the wrong reason to do or not do something.

[Andrew]

Not really seeing a problem with a celebration that caused zero vandalism and zero arrest. The police blocked off the streets so we could celebrate. I guess chanting USA and the singing the National Anthem of this great nation is too much for you though. You've admittedly said you don't feel a lot of patriotism for america though, which is why you probably don't agree with the celebrations. I however felt a great amount of patriotism last night by participating in those chants. It was more a celebration of America being awesome than the death of Osama.

 

This event took our generations innocence away, and for the last decade we've been dealing with wars that our generation is fighting in(including some of my friends), a broken economy and dealing with graduating into a horrible job market. So forgive me for wanting to celebrate and feel patriotism for our nation when its been kind of hard to do that the last 10 years.

 

Outstanding post.

 

[StrangeSox]

"It's funny because I was about to kill him"

 

lol Colbert

[Soxbadger]

We are hated and it makes me sad for people who hate me for a silly reason that makes no sense, when I sit here and often times defend them far more than others would.

 

I just hope there is one of them that sits there and defends me.

 

Osama hated me, he wanted me dead, but I pity him, because he wasted life on hate, when he could have really helped people by using his vast wealth and message for good.

[Heads22]

"It's funny because I was about to kill him"

 

lol Colbert

 

haha, he did laugh a little too hard at that.

[Soxbadger]

The Berlin Wall coming down was real, this is symbolic. Terrorism is not going away because Osama is dead, Osama just reminded us that when there is no one worse than the US (USSR, Nazi, etc) we are the biggest target and we are the ones that will take the hate of the world.

 

The only question is next time will we respond the same way. It may not be tomorrow, it may not be for a thousand years, but there will be another domestic terror attack. People forget that before Osama there was The OKC bombing done by US citizens, that they tried to blow up the WTC previously and failed, that there was the Unabomber. Osama just happened to be the guy that came up with a plan that went bigger, that was inevitable.

 

Its just tragic that people will kill other people to send a message, and killing Osama isnt going to stop that, no amount of killing ever will.

[greg775]

Not really seeing a problem with a celebration that caused zero vandalism and zero arrest. The police blocked off the streets so we could celebrate. I guess chanting USA and the singing the National Anthem of this great nation is too much for you though. You've admittedly said you don't feel a lot of patriotism for america though, which is why you probably don't agree with the celebrations. I however felt a great amount of patriotism last night by participating in those chants. It was more a celebration of America being awesome than the death of Osama.

 

This event took our generations innocence away, and for the last decade we've been dealing with wars that our generation is fighting in(including some of my friends), a broken economy and dealing with graduating into a horrible job market. So forgive me for wanting to celebrate and feel patriotism for our nation when its been kind of hard to do that the last 10 years.

 

That was a great post. badger how do you respond to that?

 

Well I saw the Vatican's position, indicating we Catholics should not celebrate his death.

The statement:

" Osama bin Laden, as we all know, bore the most serious responsibility for spreading divisions and hatred among populations, causing the deaths of innumerable people, and manipulating religions for this purpose.

 

In the face of a man’s death, a Christian never rejoices, but reflects on the serious responsibilities of each person before God and before men, and hopes and works so that every event may be the occasion for the further growth of peace and not of hatred."

 

Makes sense. But like I said earlier, we were created as imperfect sinners and this was an easy sin to commit, to cheer the death of that bastard.

It does make sense to do what the Vatican suggests.

[Andrew]

So did anyone get the $25M?

 

*Nevermind - There's Greg to take the bait.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Andrew

[Soxbadger]

How do I respond to what?

 

I think I am the great patriot, I love America as much as anyone can. America is the only reason I exist, if not for this country I would not be, if not for this country millions or billions may not have existed.

 

I would never (unless I was just trying to set some one off) attack some ones patriotism, so I dont know how to respond to that post.

 

As for feeling patriotism over the last 10 years, I felt more patriotic on 9/11 than when Osama was killed. I even felt more patriotism in the original Gulf war when Saddam was attacking the Israeli's and Kuwaiti's. Killing Osama didnt make me feel like a patriot, I feel like a patriot when I think of all those who have fought for the rights of others, all those American's who sacrificed their lives so that others can be free.

 

I guess I felt no reason to respond, because it wasnt possibly directed at me.

 

[Andrew]

How do I respond to what?

 

I think I am the great patriot, I love America as much as anyone can. America is the only reason I exist, if not for this country I would not be.

 

Quit reading right there.

 

You're right.

 

Only in America.

[kev211]

How do I respond to what?

 

I think I am the great patriot, I love America as much as anyone can. America is the only reason I exist, if not for this country I would not be, if not for this country millions or billions may not have existed.

 

I would never (unless I was just trying to set some one off) attack some ones patriotism, so I dont know how to respond to that post.

 

As for feeling patriotism over the last 10 years, I felt more patriotic on 9/11 than when Osama was killed. I even felt more patriotism in the original Gulf war when Saddam was attacking the Israeli's and Kuwaiti's. Killing Osama didnt make me feel like a patriot, I feel like a patriot when I think of all those who have fought for the rights of others, all those American's who sacrificed their lives so that others can be free.

 

I guess I felt no reason to respond, because it wasnt possibly directed at me.

That post was directed at SF1 not you so I don't know what Greg was talking about. I was also not attacking his patriotism, just stating that might be a reason why he feels the celebrations were excessive.

 

I was in no way saying that if you didn't like the celebrations you are not patriotic, I just said the celebrations were more about patriotism then about someone being dead.

[witesoxfan]

Honestly, there is a part of me that is upset that people died. To put it quite bluntly, the thought of people dying sucks.

 

I'm not happy Osama bin Laden is dead. In all actuality, I don't care about that. Instead, I am happy that the force that caused the most horrific attack in the history of the United States has been eliminated. It sucks that he had to be killed, but I don't think any sort of means was going to be moral or just; I don't think it matters. In this instance, the end justifies the means.

[Soxbadger]

No problem I never thought it was directed at me, so I wasnt sure why I needed to respond to it. Ive just been trying to avoid real work by this thread.

 

I felt the celebrations were an interesting phenomenon (and as I already admitted had I been there I probably would have done it), and I was kind of surprised at the reaction.

[Milkman delivers]

Five minutes in it already is.

 

The first five minutes of Colbert was some of the funniest television I can recall.

[knightni]

Quit reading right there.

 

You're right.

 

Only in America.

You have not agreed with the terms of the Filibuster in order to post here.

 

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=63789

[DrunkBomber]

We are hated and it makes me sad for people who hate me for a silly reason that makes no sense, when I sit here and often times defend them far more than others would.

 

I just hope there is one of them that sits there and defends me.

 

Osama hated me, he wanted me dead, but I pity him, because he wasted life on hate, when he could have really helped people by using his vast wealth and message for good.

Just reading through this thread and seeing some of the garbage that you are posting is honestly jaw dropping. Its no coincidence that a few people didnt even know how to respond to some of your posts because they are literally that ridiculous.

 

A lot of your post say things like "I dont think" or "I dont feel" or "To me." Your opinion is your opinion, and nobody is trying to take that away from, but you need to get off your high horse when you disagree with other peoples.

 

How dare you try to belittle the effect 9/11 or anything else OBL had part in because you dont feel the death count was high enough to make it as significant as some other event in history? 9/11 had a DEVASTATING impact on my immediate family, something that we still havent recovered from and there are tens of thousands of people around the country that were impacted more then not being able to bring shampoo on airplanes. So dont try to tell me how to feel, or how to act or that I should be worried that getting some closure will offend people that dont know me or care whether I live or die across the world.

 

I dont doubt that there were handfuls of people who were just celebrating to celebrate last night, and thats their right. A right thats being protected for them by soldiers all over the world. As other people have pointed out, these were peaceful celebrations, they werent riots. It was one of the most refreshing things Ive seen in terms of national pride watching people all over the country cheering, singing and being proud of our nation.

 

Its been a long time since people have been able to put politics and hate aside and all celebrate as a whole around here, no matter what the reason. Im very grateful to the Obama administration, all of the soldiers that have risked their lives for our freedom and anyone else who had a role in bringing this closure to me and my family. I guess that makes me a bad guy.

[Texsox]

Jenks, again we will disagree on world. Bin Laden wasn't an issue for most of the world. Narco-terrorism is way more of an issue in South America and Mexico. Bin Laden isn't the biggest problem for Israel. What terrorism did Obama cause in Norway, Sweden, Greenland, Australia? Did Bin Laden commit crimes against Japan, Korea, China, Vietnam? Bin Laden wanted death to Americans. Most of the rest of the world could give a f*** about us. Again, where were the people waving Greek flags in Greece? Where were the celebrations in Turkey? Yemen? Honduras?

 

He was an American problem and we took him out. I believe the celebrations will have a bigger impact here in the US, both positive and negative, than you do. I think they will have a much smaller impact around the rest of the world than you do.

[Brian]

My DVR didn't record Colbert last night. Thought I set it along with Stewart. Glad they replay it the next day.

[lostfan]

Someone mentioned EO12333 earlier (Balta I think). It doesn't really matter, Osama wasn't a head of state and wasn't a US person

[Balta1701]

Someone mentioned EO12333 earlier (Balta I think). It doesn't really matter, Osama wasn't a head of state and wasn't a US person

Where in the EO text does it say "Head of state"? Here's the Wiki version:

No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination.

Does the word "Assassination" imply "head of state"? Isn't attempting to shoot a political figure an assassination (i.e. Rep. Giffords, for example).

[Balta1701]

U.S. intelligence officials believe Osama bin Laden made a propaganda recording shortly before his death and expect that tape to surface soon.

 

It's unclear whether the tape is audio or video, but a U.S. official says that intelligence indicates it's already working its way through al-Qaida's media pipeline. The official said the timing was coincidental and there's no indication he knew U.S. forces were bearing down on him.

 

A new recording from bin Laden would provide a final word from the beyond grave for a terrorist who taunted the U.S. with recorded propaganda for years. It could also provide fodder to those who insist he is still alive.

Link

[Balta1701]

The President sat stone-faced through much of the events. Several of his aides, however, were pacing. For long periods of time, nobody said a thing, as everyone waited for the next update. In the modern age, Presidents can experience their own military actions like a video game, except that they have no control over the events. They cannot, and would not, intervene to contact the commanders running the operation. So when word came that a helicopter had been grounded, a sign that the plan was already off course, the tension increased.

 

Minutes later, more word came over the transom. “We’ve IDed Geronimo,” said a disembodied voice, using the agreed-upon code name for America’s most wanted enemy, Osama bin Laden. Word then came that Geronimo had been killed. Only when the last helicopter lifted off some minutes later did the President know that his forces had sustained no casualties.

 

The decision to attack had been made days earlier by the President. He gathered his senior intelligence, military and diplomatic team together in the Situation Room on Thursday afternoon to hear his options. There were already concerns about operational security. At that point, hundreds of people had already been read into the potential whereabouts of bin Laden. Any leak would have ruined the entire mission.

 

The intelligence professionals said they did not know for sure that bin Laden was in the compound. The case was good, but circumstantial. The likelihood, officials told the President, was between 50% and 80%. No slam dunk. Obama went around the table asking everyone to state their opinion. He quizzed his staff about worst case scenarios–the possibility of civilian casualties, a hostage situation, a diplomatic blow-up with Pakistan, a downed helicopter. He was presented with three options: Wait to gather more intelligence, attack with targeted bombs from the air, or go in on the ground with troops. The room was divided about 50-50, said a person in the room. John Brennan, the President’s senior counter-terrorism adviser, supported a ground strike, as did the operational people, including Leon Panetta at the CIA. Others called for more time. In the end, about half of the senior aides supported a helicopter assault. The other half said either wait, or strike from above.

 

Obama left the meeting without signaling his intent. He wanted to sleep on it. At about 8:00 a.m. on Friday, just before he boarded a helicopter that would take him to tour tornado damage in Alabama, Obama called his senior aides into the Diplomatic Room. He told them his decision: A helicopter assault. At that point, the operation was taken out of his hands. He was trusting the fate of his presidency to luck.

 

Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2011/05/02/insid.../#ixzz1LINsNZ6N

[G&T]

Where in the EO text does it say "Head of state"? Here's the Wiki version:

Does the word "Assassination" imply "head of state"? Isn't attempting to shoot a political figure an assassination (i.e. Rep. Giffords, for example).

 

It does not mean head of state. By the strict letter of the law, the action was against the EO. However, that EO has not strictly applied to terrorists since the Clinton administration.

 

Washington Post