Phil Rogers with one of his better Sox articles

[caulfield12]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...,3208623.column

 

A lot of it's pretty obvious stuff, but the comparisons with the Twins are spot on in the way they're trying to dig themselves out of this big hole, whereas the White Sox are pretty much standing pat and throwing out more cliches and Ozzie one liners about "that's how we roll" as if this entire offensive slump is something of a joke to everyone in the organization. It should have been more like...if this continues through the roadtrip, "heads will definitely roll," one of the first being Ozzie's (new home purchase or not).

 

Thinking of the season as starting over again at 0-0, it worked in 2006, maybe it will work again.

 

Don't see it happening without a healthy Mauer, Morneau, Nathan and Delmon Young, but I'm never surprised by where the Twins end up at Game 162 (well, except 2008!!)

 

 

 

And then we have Joe Cowley of the Sun-Times basically daring them to make any changes.

 

Nobody’s going anywhere.

 

Hitting coach Greg Walker isn’t getting fired today. And for those armchair general managers who have an inflated self-worth because they finished first in their fantasy baseball leagues two out of the last three years, you’re not getting Guillen’s head on a platter, either.

 

Rule No. 1: You don’t get rid of a top-five manager in his prime. Rule No. 2: You don’t get rid of the man solely responsible for your team being relevant. Rule No. 3: You don’t get rid of a man who knows where all the bodies are buried by your organization and would have a tell-all book on the New York Times’ best-seller list by the time the winter meetings hit in December.

 

That’s what’s really depressing about Sox baseball these days: all kinds of problems and no one person to hold accountable. It’s a slow-motion car wreck in which we all have to fasten our seat belts, close our eyes and hope that the glass fragments don’t cut too deeply.

 

Even if it doesn’t play out well for the Sox, there is very little flexibility in shoveling out of the mess. That’s what should keep Williams up at night and make him feel a little uneasy about his current standing.

 

This is a team full of unmovable contracts or players performing so poorly they would have trouble landing a spot on the Island of Misfit Toys.

 

So what deck chairs can be tossed overboard if the S.S. Sox-tanic continues to sink deeper into icy water?

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/5171180-419...or-a-wreck.html

Edited May 4, 2011 by caulfield12

[maggsmaggs]

Who is this top-five manager Phi speaks of? Certainly Ozzie is not it...

[Cerbaho-WG]

Rule No. 1: You don’t get rid of a top-five manager in his prime.

 

The only top 5 list Ozzie is making is Top 5 AL Central managers. He's atrocious.

[caulfield12]

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2011050...orts/705039699/

 

Yet another take from Barry I. of the good old Arlington Daily Herald.

 

 

 

With the way Cowley tossed out "top five managers of the game," I wonder if he's using the words of Ozzie (himself) or JR back against them, but in an underhanded way.

 

You can just imagine Ozzie telling him "they can't fire me, I'm one of the top five managers in all of baseball."

 

I'd like to think Guillen wouldn't have said that after the last 2-3 years, but he seems capable of saying virtually anything.

 

As far as the idea that the White Sox would be even more "irrelevant" without Guillen, does anyone in the front office actually think that having Ozzie Guillen around for five more months is going to help draw more fans out to the ballpark? To do what, boo him? If anything, they'd get a nice 2-3 week "dead cat" bounced if they did name a new manager and actually turned things around like in 2001. I remember that year, they started something like 14-29 and got all the way back to over .500. Plus, there was the added bonus of the Jose Canseco, David Wells and Thomas/KW sideshows.

Edited May 4, 2011 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Rule No. 1: You don’t get rid of a top-five manager in his prime.

 

The only top 5 list Ozzie is making is Top 5 AL Central managers. He's atrocious.

 

 

Buddy Bell and Gene Lamont would have to rank ahead of Guillen the way things are going.

 

DAMN you Indians, finally wised up and got a legit manager and now look what has happened...the same guy Ozzie pointed out as one of the "retreads" who always keep getting recycled has been handing you your hat for the last 7 months of baseball Ozzeroo.

Edited May 4, 2011 by caulfield12

[elrockinMT]

Rule No. 1: You don’t get rid of a top-five manager in his prime.

 

The only top 5 list Ozzie is making is Top 5 AL Central managers. He's atrocious.

 

 

This team got rid of Tony Larussa way back when thanks to the ole Hawkeroo. Not saying that measn anything now, but makes you kind of wonder just how they make decisions

[caulfield12]

I'd still go with Cooper/Stone Pony/Farmer (even though I don't like as a broadcaster) over Guillen/Baines/Cora/Walker from this point forward.

 

I even wouldn't mind Stone as GM and either Vizquel or Cooper as manager. It would be a breath of fresh air. Or Sandy Alomar, Jr. (just no more Roberto, please!)

 

If nothing else, the last 20-30 years of White Sox baseball have shown that pitching is almost aways the key to our successful teams.

 

 

 

Or, they clean house and give Beinfest and Hill down in Miami a blank check to turn this organization around in the Marlins' style, minus Ozzie.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

Mostly because I haven't seen him do any sort of managerial stuff, but I really fear that Cooper would be a terrible manager.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Mostly because I haven't seen him do any sort of managerial stuff, but I really fear that Cooper would be a terrible manager.

 

Cooper as pitching coach is one of the few things about this team that I have no desire to change right now. He's one of the best at what he does, just leave him be where he's at.

[elrockinMT]

Mostly because I haven't seen him do any sort of managerial stuff, but I really fear that Cooper would be a terrible manager.

 

 

I think Cooper kind of got the pitching staff back on track (mostly that is) but Walker hasn't gotten through to the hitters. But they are men and need to be treated as men and not high school/college players. If you don't know how to hit by this level I am not sure they can ever get it straightened out except on their own. Walker pretty much just has to encourage them. He can't really teach them anything. Can he?

Edited May 4, 2011 by elrockinMT

[jenksycat]

DAMN you Indians, finally wised up and got a legit manager and now look what has happened...the same guy Ozzie pointed out as one of the "retreads" who always keep getting recycled has been handing you your hat for the last 7 months of baseball Ozzeroo.

 

7 months? What in the holy f*** are you talking about? 69 wins and a ~.412 winning percentage as a manager...you think we can land him for next year!!!!???

[caulfield12]

7 months? What in the holy f*** are you talking about? 69 wins and a ~.412 winning percentage as a manager...you think we can land him for next year!!!!???

 

I'm talking about head-to-head against the White Sox, especially their results this year having his team prepared to play out of the gate after getting knocked down by the Sox. You really think that would have happened under Eric Wedge? I thinketh not.

 

 

 

I'll give you an example with pitching coaches as managers. Not only Bud "Paint It" Black and John Farrell, but Larry Dierker came out of the Astros' broadcasting booth and lit a fire under the Astros.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?.../SPORTS2490.dtl

 

Just heard the White Sox Director of Public Relations (Lou Hernandez) quit after 5+ years with the Sox to take a job with the YMCA. Interesting timing on that move.

Edited May 4, 2011 by caulfield12

[Andrew]

I'm talking about head-to-head against the White Sox, especially their results this year having his team prepared to play out of the gate after getting knocked down by the Sox. You really think that would have happened under Eric Wedge? I thinketh not.

 

 

 

I'll give you an example with pitching coaches as managers. Not only Bud "Paint It" Black and John Farrell, but Larry Dierker came out of the Astros' broadcasting booth and lit a fire under the Astros.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?.../SPORTS2490.dtl

 

Just heard the White Sox Director of Public Relations (Lou Hernandez) quit after 5+ years with the Sox to take a job with the YMCA. Interesting timing on that move.

 

The correlation between ex "battery" players and success as managers is not even funny. Just the success for mediocre "C"s alone is mind boggling if you go back the last 15 years.

 

*Edit - 20

 

*Edit - 25!

 

**Edit - We need 72 back.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Andrew

[caulfield12]

I expect major changes within the next two weeks if the Sox don't have a fairly successful trip. There's too much at stake and too much invested in this season. Although the fault lies largely with the players, I believe it will be the staff -- but not the players -- who take the hit if a change is to be made.

 

The manager has taken responsibility for the team's poor play and suggested he's the one who should be fired if a change is to be made. But he's signed through 2012. If so many people have been skeptical of his managerial style, why didn't more people question why his option for 2012 was picked up in January?

 

Pierre's relentless and failed attempts at stolen bases are getting old. He should be included among those cited by the manager who need to work on getting better leads, especially since he's 33 years old. They're giving up outs at this point.

 

Because there's only one spare outfielder (Lillibridge), it's tough to take out Pierre if Lillibridge is spelling Carlos Quentin or Rios. This is why the rotating designated hitter worked well with the manager last year because he could play a player in the outfield if he wasn't the DH. If Mark Teahen was more dependable in the outfield, this would aid the situation. I believe they would have employed the same format had Mark Kotsay hit for more production. I'm not saying Kotsay would have returned, but they would have acquired a left-handed hitter who could play the outfield and first base.

 

The early work on fundamentals needs to be enforced to the highest level if the Sox are to succeed. The eye wash stuff doesn't work. This needs to be repeated until there is noticeable improvement.

 

Mark Gonzalez mailbag from tribune.com/sports

 

One thing I vehemently disagree with him about is naming Buddy Bell or Jim Fregosi as the new manager. No thanks. And I'm indifferent at best on Rick Hahn.

[Andrew]

There are many things to object to:

 

- DH by committe - better idea (Kotsay)? LOL.... "Worked well", he actually said.

- Teahen in the outfied?

- He doesn't admit how Lillibride sucks (yeah, I know - he's enamored now 'cuz of the catches!!!11!!)

 

This has not been a "fundamentally" sound team my whole life. Only Mark Gonzalez, Phil Rogers, and anyone else in Chicago (save the *MLB guy) really think the Sox are a small ball team or ever have been....or write it anyway (talking about you, dumbass Phil).

 

:shrug:

 

No link C12, so didn't see the alternate GM/Manager stuff.

 

*MLB Guy - Scott Merkin. Just thought of it.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Andrew

[ThunderBolt]

7 months? What in the holy f*** are you talking about? 69 wins and a ~.412 winning percentage as a manager...you think we can land him for next year!!!!???

Manny Acta is really sharp. I'd say that he's probably one of the top-5 strategists in the game right now. His problem is just that he's been burdened with an overabundance of crappy players for the bulk of his managing career. I'd kill to have a guy with his mind for the game as the coach of the Sox.

[kitekrazy]

Mostly because I haven't seen him do any sort of managerial stuff, but I really fear that Cooper would be a terrible manager.

 

He hasn't shown much of late as being a decent pitching coach either. He has the "coaches against the fans" mentality. After listening to him on the score defending the team, he mentally weak.

 

[kitekrazy]

Manny Acta is really sharp. I'd say that he's probably one of the top-5 strategists in the game right now. His problem is just that he's been burdened with an overabundance of crappy players for the bulk of his managing career. I'd kill to have a guy with his mind for the game as the coach of the Sox.

 

He would be burdened with crappy players again, just more expensive.

 

[Andrew]

Manny Acta is really sharp. I'd say that he's probably one of the top-5 strategists in the game right now. His problem is just that he's been burdened with an overabundance of crappy players for the bulk of his managing career. I'd kill to have a guy with his mind for the game as the coach of the Sox.

 

What do you like about him? Any examples/styles you can tell us about?

 

Im not that familiar with him or his style (like at all), other than looking at his numbers and seeing that he has the most atrocious record in baseball as an active manager (sans last 5 weeks of THIS season).

Edited May 5, 2011 by Andrew

[caulfield12]

“Those guys got to go fight every day,’’ Guillen said of his team, which fell to the franchise’s worst 32-game start since 1978 after its 17th loss in 21 games. “Every day they have to fight. That’s the thing. They are the pilots. We [coaching staff] are sitting in the back of the airplane. We’re gonna crash. Well, the plane’s going to crash because you fall, but I’m gonna crash. I’ll be the first one to die. But I’m not driving the thing.’’

 

The slump is a shocker, and while accepting his share of responsibility, Guillen, a former player himself, knows it falls squarely on his players’ shoulders after chairman Jerry Reinsdorf plunked down

$125 million-plus in payroll on this scuffling crew.

 

You have 120 million reasons and you have 30 reasons about why we’re not winning,’’ Guillen said when asked if he’s talked to Reinsdorf lately. (The answer was, not since he asked him for Bulls season tickets.) “You think I’m gonna tell Jerry . . . why are we doing it? No. They know I try hard. What we can do? Hopefully those guys start to play better.

 

“He asks the same questions we ask. What happened? What happened? You watched the game. He watches the same game we watch. What we can do about it? Nothing.’’

 

www.suntimes.com/sports

Edited May 5, 2011 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

I think Cooper kind of got the pitching staff back on track (mostly that is) but Walker hasn't gotten through to the hitters. But they are men and need to be treated as men and not high school/college players. If you don't know how to hit by this level I am not sure they can ever get it straightened out except on their own. Walker pretty much just has to encourage them. He can't really teach them anything. Can he?

Well, yeah, there's lots of things a hitting coach can teach guys. Konerko, for example, regularly credits Walk with helping him learn to go the other way or at worst stay up the middle more often on pitches, it's probably why he kills fastballs so much.

 

Guys like Beckham and Morel need to learn how to be consistent from somewhere.

 

Every one on the team needs to be taught how to handle a guy like Liriano on Tuesday, where he can't throw a strike to save his life but they keep helping him.