Leonard Zelig Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ May 15, 2011 -> 11:21 PM) And just to fuel the fire, Juan now owns a -1.2 WAR. Making him the worst player in baseball by DOUBLE that of the 2nd worst player, which is Carl Crawford at -0.6. How does that one sit with you guys? Still don't want to release him and have to eat $4M or so? Do you really believe that Carl Crawford is the second worst player in MLB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ May 16, 2011 -> 01:57 AM) Do you really believe that Carl Crawford is the second worst player in MLB? Of starting players, sure, why not? And actually, just within the past 10 minutes or so, the numbers were update, Crawford is actually tied for 5th worst now with 4 other players. Juan is still leading by a decent margin though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 QUOTE (Soxfest @ May 15, 2011 -> 06:22 PM) Ozzie today after game. “One thing about Juan.” Guillen said. “You’re going to see the same (effort Monday night). He’s going to go out and play the game, play the game right. When you play every day, you’re going to go through tough times. “He’ll be there batting first again. I don’t worry about him because he’s a professional. He will battle. That’s not the first time he’s been through it. He’ll find a way.” Pierre has four hits in his past 29 at-bats, and his batting average has dipped from .266 to .242. OG what a joke! Like Kenny, Ozzie has a hard time letting go of what a player used to be. Ozzie still sees visions of 2003. Look at some of the guys Kenny's brought in late in their careers, the Alomars, Junior and Carl Everett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ May 16, 2011 -> 12:00 AM) Of starting players, sure, why not? And actually, just within the past 10 minutes or so, the numbers were update, Crawford is actually tied for 5th worst now with 4 other players. Juan is still leading by a decent margin though. So you think that Mark Ellis, Yuniesky Betancourt, Brendan Ryan, and Brent Morel are all better players than Crawford? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ May 16, 2011 -> 01:40 AM) So you think that Mark Ellis, Yuniesky Betancourt, Brendan Ryan, and Brent Morel are all better players than Crawford? Morel isn't a qualified player yet, but yeah, I think the other 3 are having better seasons that Crawford to this point, but they are all having bad years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCangelosi Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 All I know is how we can continue to march JP out there leading off of all things is absolutely ridiculous. I cannot believe KW isn't having a discussion with Ozzie about this...it's turning into a much WORSE situation than the Mark Kotsay DH debacle of 2010 in my opinion. What a joke, really. This team would be immediately improved if we put Dayan out there in the OF and started to play Teahen/Oldmar more at 3B. Send Morel down and if Ozzie doesn't want to DFA Pierre we can have him pinch run (although I'd hate to see that as well with how awful he's been this year at baserunning) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 (edited) If the Sox aren't ready to give Viciedo a shot at LF, there is another feasible in house solution. Ozzie probably won't be satisfied unless he has a legitimate stolen base threat at the top of the lineup. Therefore, why not platoon de Aza and Lillibridge in LF? They both have good speed, stolen base skill, and play good defense. De Aza has hit righties really well the last couple of years, with an OBP consistently over .400, and he's continuing to do so this year at Charlotte. Lillibridge has been very good vs. lefties the last two years, albeit in very limitted playing time. I can't believe that platoon could be anywhere near as bad as J. P. and the defense would be improved tremendously. Edited May 16, 2011 by Lillian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCangelosi Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 QUOTE (Lillian @ May 16, 2011 -> 04:28 AM) If the Sox aren't ready to give Viciedo a shot at LF, there is another feasible in house solution. Ozzie probably won't be satisfied unless he has a legitimate stolen base threat at the top of the lineup. Therefore, why not platoon de Aza and Lillibridge in LF? They both have good speed, stolen base skill, and play good defense. De Aza has hit righties really well the last couple of years, with an OBP consistently over .400, and he's continuing to do so this year at Charlotte. Lillibridge has been very good vs. lefties the last two years, albeit in very limitted playing time. I can't believe that platoon could be anywhere near as bad as J. P. and the defense would be improved tremendously. I liked the other previously proposed option on another thread where we put Lillibridge at 3B and lead him off and bring in Dayan. This makes our offense so much better it's ridiculous. We have two easy outs batting 9 and 1 (Morel/Pierre) and that eliminates them both and still gives Ozzie a "speed guy" at the top as we all know he is so hell bent on having one. This is such a simple and obvious solution it is ridiculous to think that our management is unwilling to make this change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ May 16, 2011 -> 07:22 AM) I liked the other previously proposed option on another thread where we put Lillibridge at 3B and lead him off and bring in Dayan. This makes our offense so much better it's ridiculous. We have two easy outs batting 9 and 1 (Morel/Pierre) and that eliminates them both and still gives Ozzie a "speed guy" at the top as we all know he is so hell bent on having one. This is such a simple and obvious solution it is ridiculous to think that our management is unwilling to make this change. Except Lillibridge has never played 3B in his entire life. Edited May 16, 2011 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCangelosi Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 16, 2011 -> 06:33 AM) Except Lillibridge has never played 3B in his entire life. Fine, move Becks over there and put Lilli at 2B. Don't forget Beckham had his best year for us at 3B and his defense was just fine over there. Edited May 16, 2011 by JohnCangelosi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 There's no chance in hell they move Beckham to 3B. Never going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCangelosi Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 QUOTE (flavum @ May 16, 2011 -> 06:38 AM) There's no chance in hell they move Beckham to 3B. Never going to happen. Why not? His hitting can't get any worse than it is now, if you're concerned about the "mental impact" on him changing a position. And if that is the argument of the Sox organization, they should be ashamed of themselves. Treating players like they are all sensitive little puss boys who aren't mentally strong enough to handle any slight adjustment is no way to run a ball club. We have a serious need to get Dayan into our lineup and Pierre OUT. This is clearly the best way while not sacrificing anything on D, IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 While I agree with you that baseball players are far too sensitive, I don't think they'll do that to Beckham again. He's still trying to get it together at the plate, and the last thing he needs is to start playing 3B again. QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ May 16, 2011 -> 07:43 AM) Why not? His hitting can't get any worse than it is now, if you're concerned about the "mental impact" on him changing a position. And if that is the argument of the Sox organization, they should be ashamed of themselves. Treating players like they are all sensitive little puss boys who aren't mentally strong enough to handle any slight adjustment is no way to run a ball club. We have a serious need to get Dayan into our lineup and Pierre OUT. This is clearly the best way while not sacrificing anything on D, IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 The only way it's going to happen is if Pierre pulls himself out of the line-up (like Posada) or gets injured. How many times has Ozzie benched a veteran position player in the middle of the season? He stuck with Erstad, Mackowiak and Kotsay. Nick Swisher is about the only name that comes to mind. I just don't see any way they trade Pierre out for De Aza. As Ozzie himself said, he still firmly believes Pierre will turn it around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ May 16, 2011 -> 01:10 AM) Morel isn't a qualified player yet, but yeah, I think the other 3 are having better seasons that Crawford to this point, but they are all having bad years. I did not ask who was having a better season, I asked who you thought was the better player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Philips Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ May 16, 2011 -> 09:17 AM) I did not ask who was having a better season, I asked who you thought was the better player. If we did have a person who could play short better than Ramirez (not counting visquel) Alexei can play 3rd as well as anyone . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 QUOTE (forrestg @ May 16, 2011 -> 10:37 AM) If we did have a person who could play short better than Ramirez (not counting visquel) Alexei can play 3rd as well as anyone . Alexei has played exactly one inning at 3B since coming to Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 16, 2011 -> 11:40 AM) Alexei has played exactly one inning at 3B since coming to Chicago. But it was a damn good inning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 QUOTE (forrestg @ May 16, 2011 -> 10:37 AM) If we did have a person who could play short better than Ramirez (not counting visquel) Alexei can play 3rd as well as anyone . You are thinking of Uribe. Pierre is going nowhere. The easy answer is to put Lillibridge in LF for a week or two and see what happens. Sadly, it is not going to happen though. The bad part about it, is Pierre does nothing positive. All you need to do is look at the White Sox first inning scoring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 There's loyalty, and then there's insanity. Juan Pierre still leading off for the White Sox is f***ing insane and inexcusable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 16, 2011 -> 11:06 AM) There's loyalty, and then there's insanity. Juan Pierre still leading off for the White Sox is f***ing insane and inexcusable. What is funny is being loyal to a guy who has been here for a little over one year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 For this team to truly evolve into it's potential the Sox need to work Viciedo into the everyday lineup in RF, move CQ back to LF and bench the hell out of Pierre. This roster is a work in progress in the same way Santos as closer was a move on the fly. That's working out pretty damn well. The next step is getting AJ DP out of the every day lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ May 16, 2011 -> 04:18 AM) All I know is how we can continue to march JP out there leading off of all things is absolutely ridiculous. I cannot believe KW isn't having a discussion with Ozzie about this...it's turning into a much WORSE situation than the Mark Kotsay DH debacle of 2010 in my opinion. What a joke, really. This team would be immediately improved if we put Dayan out there in the OF and started to play Teahen/Oldmar more at 3B. Send Morel down and if Ozzie doesn't want to DFA Pierre we can have him pinch run (although I'd hate to see that as well with how awful he's been this year at baserunning) I'm so tired of this routine. Every single season, we have a player that is just pathetic but continues to play all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ May 16, 2011 -> 09:17 AM) I did not ask who was having a better season, I asked who you thought was the better player. Crawford is obviously more talented, but he has been worse this season. I don't get what you're trying to prove, as you clearly understand this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ May 16, 2011 -> 12:42 PM) I'm so tired of this routine. Every single season, we have a player that is just pathetic but continues to play all the time. It would be like continuing to play Scalabrine over Taj for some inexplicable reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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